"He's not even going the speed limit!" WTF?

[Alfador]

American highway speed limits are primarily BS anyway. It is a near universally accepted philosphy that highway speed limits should be set as close to the 85th percentile as possible for safety reasons. That is to say what 85% of drivers would drive naturally with or without limits. Most US speed limits fall below this. Driving below that threshold is dangerous. It backs up traffic, creating wolf packs of cars that are accidents waiting to happen, and it causes a massive disparity of traffic speeds.

People who drive slower than the regular flow of traffic in the left lane are wannabe cops who think they have the right to dictate to other people how they should drive and honestly deserve to be run off the road for creating a dangerous situation. Speed limits themselves are a necessity, but they are set artificially low through some arbitrary attempt to make ticket revenue, or even worse, through some misguided, ill reinforced facts that claim it is unsafe. Oh, and then there are the eco-weenie moonbats who think that low speed limits are a tool in some totalitarian crusade to save the earth with lower emissions.

As has already been said multiple times, if someone is speeding, let them. The cops are there to deal with those people, and obstructing higher speed traffic in any way, intentionally or not, serves no purpose but to endanger everyone around you.

[PoorManQ45]

I agree that the statement "He's not even going the speed limit" is a bit of a ridiculous complaint, especially when you ignore the legality of the situation. If I'm understanding the point your trying to make, its that the complaint shouldn't be related to the legal posted limit; it should be related to the speed the speaker believes to be appropirate (started to correct the spelling, but then decided to leave it... Appro-Pirate...)- "He's going way too slow for the traffic on this street" for example.
I'm guessing most, if not all, of us have been in a situation that we believe others are going either too fast or too slow and comment on it. And if we referrence the speed limit, I'm guessing its because we may be regarding the posted speed limit as a suggested/recommended speed that we should be travelling, rather than an absolute limit. So it seems the argument is more an argument on terminology- to which I would generally agree.

You understood me perfectly. Your explanation makes perfect sense.

@brake checking comments: Heck, why use the brakes, just downshift and engine brake!

[Watermelonwarrior]

American highway speed limits are primarily BS anyway. It is a near universally accepted philosphy that highway speed limits should be set as close to the 85th percentile as possible for safety reasons. That is to say what 85% of drivers would drive naturally with or without limits. Most US speed limits fall below this. Driving below that threshold is dangerous. It backs up traffic, creating wolf packs of cars that are accidents waiting to happen, and it causes a massive disparity of traffic speeds.

People who drive slower than the regular flow of traffic in the left lane are wannabe cops who think they have the right to dictate to other people how they should drive and honestly deserve to be run off the road for creating a dangerous situation. Speed limits themselves are a necessity, but they are set artificially low through some arbitrary attempt to make ticket revenue, or even worse, through some misguided, ill reinforced facts that claim it is unsafe. Oh, and then there are the eco-weenie moonbats who think that low speed limits are a tool in some totalitarian crusade to save the earth with lower emissions.

As has already been said multiple times, if someone is speeding, let them. The cops are there to deal with those people, and obstructing higher speed traffic in any way, intentionally or not, serves no purpose but to endanger everyone around you.

Thank you! agree 100%. I actually read this thread this morning and was waiting to post a response. On my way home for lunch sure enough in the left lane there was someone going just under 60mph. Causing 8-10 people train and because of that I had to pass in the far right lane(18wheeler in the middle lane). Sorry im not doing 60mph on the highway. Thats a joke. I do not speed at all on city streets. People or kids can come out of no where. But on the highway in daylight im not doing 60mph.

[PoorManQ45]

I agree that the speed limit should be raised.

I have to wonder though. Lets say the speed limit was raised to 80MPH. Wouldn't people just start doing 85-90 more often?

[Alfador]

I agree that the speed limit should be raised.

I have to wonder though. Lets say the speed limit was raised to 80MPH. Wouldn't people just start doing 85-90 more often?

A small group, yes. However, research has consistently shown that there is generally an equilibrium that the majority of drivers fall into based on road conditions, traffic density, and other characteristics, hence the whole 85th percentile thing.

Personally I'd rather have someone going fast than have someone going slower and not pacing with traffic. The fuel efficiency argument is mostly BS anyway. If speed limits were consistent at a certain height cars could have drive ratios optimized for that speed. Granted drag coefficients and stuff introduct diminishing returns on that but the difference would be marginal, and we'd probably use less gas as a country then, compared to now where everyone drives 75 in cars geared to get their mileage at 55-60 anyway.

[C-Kwik]

It all just comes down to being in the way, and the fact that there's no good REASON to be in the way. There's NO harm in driving in the right lane if you're the slowest car on the road. So why not just do it?

I was merely pointing out the technicality. Understand that many people don't vehemenently prescribe to safe speeds and following distances. Look around and see how many people do not use the 2-second rule or 1 car-length per 10 mph rule for following distance. FEW people do this. For the most part, it works out okay. But in some relatively rare circumstances, it can be problematic. Consider a scenario involving three cars. The first car, breaks down and is unable to get off the road. Second car approaches this stopped car and changes lanes to avoid it. The third car, while following at enough distance to be able to reasonably stop should the second car suddenly brake, now sees it, but is too close to stop in time and is blocked in by another car and hits the broken down car. Guess who is at fault. The third car. Following distance (with regard to speed) requires that a person leave enough distance to be able to stop for a hazard in EVERY circumstance. That said, a slow moving car is no different. This is a technical view of how the basic speed law is interpreted in such a scenario whether you agree with the "slower drivers keep right" viewpoint. Keep in mind, I don't disagree with the viewpoint. But more as a matter of courtesy than any legal aspect. In fact, I am just as annoyed at slow drivers as most of you. Its a huge reason I support stringent cell phone use laws in vehicles. A great deal of the time when I pass a slower moving car, its because someone is texting or holding their phone to their ear.

American highway speed limits are primarily BS anyway. It is a near universally accepted philosphy that highway speed limits should be set as close to the 85th percentile as possible for safety reasons. That is to say what 85% of drivers would drive naturally with or without limits. Most US speed limits fall below this. Driving below that threshold is dangerous. It backs up traffic, creating wolf packs of cars that are accidents waiting to happen, and it causes a massive disparity of traffic speeds.

Hard to say if the 85th percentile rule is accurate or not statistically, but assuming 15 % of drivers will drive at unsafe speeds when no limits are applied, then I do agree with this methodology (in principle) as one of the easiest and effective ways to implement a speed limit and enforce it. However, I am not as agreeable with the method with which they measure the 85th percentile in my area (I don't know if the same problem exists elsewhere). There are 2 things in particular that stand out to me. #1, there is already a speed limit which could skew the numbers. There is no easy solution for this and hopefully, the people who crunched the numbers accounted for this. #2 and more important to me, is where they install the equipment. Everytime I see a survey in my area, its always located close to an intersection. Most people are either already braking by the time they reach it or are still accelerating from the intersection when they cross it. One could help to provide a more accurate number by accelerating up to their normal cruising speed for that road quickly and braking later, but that's just not reasonable. They might somehow account for this, but it just seems like a lot of extra work in the number crunching process where they can eliminate many of these fringe or irrelevant data by moving the survey equipment closer to the midpoint between 2 major intersections.

I have to wonder though. Lets say the speed limit was raised to 80MPH. Wouldn't people just start doing 85-90 more often?

Not sure everyone would but I suspect a lot would. Many people believe that driving the posted speed limit is "safe" and obviously that any speed under it is also safe. I recall a claim I handled where a guy insisted he was not at fault for hitting a tree because the road was icy and he was barely creeping along. The fact was, if it was so slippery that he could not keep his car on the road when barely moving indicates he should not have been driving at all (speed should have been zero). I really wish people were taught this type of thinking more explicitly. Laws are much less important than the intent of them. If people better understood the intent of the laws, and adjusted their driving to fit the intent, then the roads would be a lot safer (IMO).

The unfortunate aspect of a maximum speed limit is it implies what a safe speed is (at least in the mind of many drivers) and pushes such people away from the basic speed law. But its a catch 22 as the basic speed law is very hard to enforce without maximum speed laws as the only tickets that could be given for it would be after an accident occurs. In fact the only time I ever see the basic speed law cited consistently, is on an accident report. More typically, officers cite maximum speed laws on tickets.

[Mr1der]

the left lane is a passing lane, not the fast lane.

[PoorManQ45]

the left lane is a passing lane, not the fast lane.

I agree. I drive in the middle or right lane. Pass in the left lane. Even if I'm going faster then other people I only get in the left lane when actively passing people.

I hate when people chillout in the left lane even if they're doing 90 in a 70. Get over! Someone might come up on you a hell of a lot faster.

[Dire91]

first, the left lane is technically the passing lane. second, if there are 5 people stuck behind one person who's doing the speed limit, that person is obstructing the flow of traffic and legally should be moving over.

This thread should have been locked after this first comment.

[Jesda]

the left lane is a passing lane, not the fast lane.

I'm always passing, all the time.


















Always passing gas.

[PoorManQ45]

first, the left lane is technically the passing lane. second, if there are 5 people stuck behind one person who's doing the speed limit, that person is obstructing the flow of traffic and legally should be moving over.

This thread should have been locked after this first comment.

Shut up Nala's friend!

The problem with that statement was that it didn't address anything I asked. The person on page two finally addressed my question.

Threads should not be locked after one answer. That squelches discussion.

[Dattebayo]

Brien, pick a side already.

In one thread you complain about the law, the next you tell us you help enforce it.

Don't be a lane monitor, this sh*t causes accidents all the time here on 495.

[PoorManQ45]

I am not complaining about the law, that's the thing.

I was making an observation based on the usage of the phrase "He's not even going the speed limit".

I speed all the time, I have no problem with that. I dislike left lane drivers just like the rest of you.

It was a simple observation.

[Dattebayo]

No, in the past you have complained about officers doing their job and now you want to do theirs for them.

Please STFU. I really REALLY hate people like you.

[PoorManQ45]

I am confused by your statement.

At no time have I stated that I drive in the left lane doing the speed limit. In fact, I have stated on multiple occasions that I speed in the right lane, and only actively pass in the left lane.

My initial post was based on an exclamation of people's annoyance towards a law abiding citizen.

I am not one of those citizens. I speed all the time. I move over as quickly as possible if approached by a vehicle from behind.

[MinisterofDOOM]

the left lane is a passing lane, not the fast lane.

YES! Even if you're the fastest car on the road, if you're not currently actively passing, you shouldn't be in that lane.

[PoorManQ45]

the left lane is a passing lane, not the fast lane.

YES! Even if you're the fastest car on the road, if you're not currently actively passing, you shouldn't be in that lane.

I agree 100%.

The main excuse I will accept is that the right lane(s) are messed up badly due to heavy truck traffic. Other then that, GTFO!!!

[Jesda]

Florida has the worst offenders of this, from what I've experienced. Between NYC/NJ transplants and the elderly, that state is chock full of car accidents.

In the south (non-FL) they're usually quite polite and have no problem moving over for you if you intend to pass.

[PoorManQ45]

Indeed. I absolutely hate drivers here.

I've been riding my motorcycle for the past few months. I usually do ~85~95. I'll come up on people in the left lane with no one infront of them doing 70MPH. I'll pull up as close as I comfortably can and sit right on their bumper in the driver's side mirror. They still don't move!

[C-Kwik]

I agree 100%.

The main excuse I will accept is that the right lane(s) are messed up badly due to heavy truck traffic. Other then that, GTFO!!!

Can't speak for other states, but the left lane in CA is not a passing lane. I've seen no such law that explicitly states this. Not to mention such a law would be impractical in urban areas where traffic is denser. Reserving such a lane would limit the flow of traffic and as such who can even tell who is "passing". In traffic, most people are trying to get ahead or would prefer to get up to "highway" speeds. This is why we generally only see the "Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs in less populated areas of CA. Also, I've never heard of any law that defines the left lane as the fast lane either. I speculate it became known as such due to the fact that the left lane tends to move faster just because its furthest away from the traffic causing lane change movements and merging on and off of the right side of the freeway. But as far as I can tell, it was never legally defined as such. The legal technicality is that if your state's vehicle code doesn't define the left lane as a passing lane, or specifies for slower traffic to keep right, then anyone has as much right to be there as you do. Again I do contend that it would be courteous of drivers to move over when a faster car approaches them from behind, but other then where explicitly specified, they have no obligation to do so.

[Jesda]

wallof.txt

[MinisterofDOOM]

Can't speak for other states, but the left lane in CA is not a passing lane. I've seen no such law that explicitly states this.

There might not be a law that calls it the "passing lane" but I'd be surprised if there's not a law resctricting its use. In fact, I remember watching some road rally video a couple years ago and seeing one car pulled over by CHP for driving in the left lane (on a two-lane highway, no less). The reason the officer gave for the citation is that the left lane is for emergency vehicles only and not for normal driving. That car was the only car on the road. Obviously the road rally conditions mean the officer could have been hunting for something to nail a jackass driver, but the fact remains that there was a law supporting a citation for driving in the left lane. In California.

[C-Kwik]

There might not be a law that calls it the "passing lane" but I'd be surprised if there's not a law resctricting its use. In fact, I remember watching some road rally video a couple years ago and seeing one car pulled over by CHP for driving in the left lane (on a two-lane highway, no less). The reason the officer gave for the citation is that the left lane is for emergency vehicles only and not for normal driving. That car was the only car on the road. Obviously the road rally conditions mean the officer could have been hunting for something to nail a jackass driver, but the fact remains that there was a law supporting a citation for driving in the left lane. In California.

There is no such law that I am aware of that dictates that the left lane is for emergency vehicles only. Frankly, that's absurd as it would make zero sense to reserve a lane for emergency vehicles only. Perhaps your recollection of the video might be off or there is something specific to that location that dictated the citation. Perhaps he was driving on the left shoulder where the "lane" is not designated for driving. Hard to say without specific details about the location and the specific vehicle code cited.

[IBCoupe]

I've seen cops pull people over for doing nothing but sit in the left lane, on more than one occasion. They usually only do this after they've flown past me at 20+ over the speed limit, and get held up by some dumbass (doing the speed limit) who doesn't realize that there's a cop behind him.

I know it's a ticketable offense in MA, too - you're not allowed to sit in the left lane for more than a quarter mile without passing someone.

And even if it's not a law in your particular jurisdiction: it's common knowledge. You pass on the left and cruise on the right. That's how it works in every country with a steering wheel on the left-hand side of the car. That's how it's always worked, and playing dumb doesn't do anything but make you look it (Not directed at you, C; just speaking in generalities).

[silent dave]

I drive relatively slow, between the speed limit and 5 over, i stay right unless passing because its courtesy and should be law on all freeways with right side on/off ramps for safety reasons.

[gammer_ghn]

cute stories. In Cali people tend to slam on their brakes for no reason in the freeways. Lets say you are going 75 ish and the person in front of you is going 65 they slow down even more just to piss you off. Older azn drivers love to stay in the left lane and go 50 in 65 and wait to change their lane at the same time as you so you crap your pants trying to avoid the accident. Officers give you seat belt tickets while you are wearing it when they dont find anything to ticket you for. So much unneeded stress in life.... OOOHHH the fastest lane on the 5 freeway is the lane closest to your right. ask anyone who drives on the 5 its the funniest s***.

[dre1507]

Majority of Floridians suck at driving. You won't be amazed to see an idiot make a 90 degree right turn from the middle lane of a major road, so they won't go past the store/plaza they want to go to.

[TroubleBound]

I agree that the statement "He's not even going the speed limit" is a bit of a ridiculous complaint, especially when you ignore the legality of the situation. If I'm understanding the point your trying to make, its that the complaint shouldn't be related to the legal posted limit; it should be related to the speed the speaker believes to be appropirate (started to correct the spelling, but then decided to leave it... Appro-Pirate...)- "He's going way too slow for the traffic on this street" for example.
I'm guessing most, if not all, of us have been in a situation that we believe others are going either too fast or too slow and comment on it. And if we referrence the speed limit, I'm guessing its because we may be regarding the posted speed limit as a suggested/recommended speed that we should be travelling, rather than an absolute limit. So it seems the argument is more an argument on terminology- to which I would generally agree.

This applies to everyone that complains about "slow" drivers in the left lane. If they are doing the speed limit they can be where ever the hell they want to be.

Thoughts?

You understood me perfectly. Your explanation makes perfect sense.

@brake checking comments: Heck, why use the brakes, just downshift and engine brake!

Lol no nice try PoorBoy. You realized everyone didn't agree with you and then tried to redeem yourself when Ajax misunderstood your first post and saved you. Sure you started off talking about the terminology of the phrase 'he's not even going the speed limit' but then clearly say that this applies to all drivers who complain about slow people in the left lane. "He's going way too slow for the traffic on this street" for example. But wait you agreed with that one....wtf? is right. Get an opinion of your own and stop worrying about what everyone on NICO thinks about you. I hope your Q45 gets rear ended cause you think your cool downshifting and engine braking in the left lane, trying to regulate peoples speed. So cool that you don't even give them the warning of brake lights man that's hardcore. IMO 'if they are doing the speed limit they CAN be wherever they wan't to' , but can receive a ticket in the left lane for impeding the flow, as has been stated numerous times. 'But i speed in the right lane and pass on the left' Stop contradicting yourself Mr. Intelligence.

[PoorManQ45]

Lol no nice try PoorBoy. You realized everyone didn't agree with you and then tried to redeem yourself when Ajax misunderstood your first post and saved you. Sure you started off talking about the terminology of the phrase 'he's not even going the speed limit' but then clearly say that this applies to all drivers who complain about slow people in the left lane. "He's going way too slow for the traffic on this street" for example. But wait you agreed with that one....wtf? is right. Get an opinion of your own and stop worrying about what everyone on NICO thinks about you. I hope your Q45 gets rear ended cause you think your cool downshifting and engine braking in the left lane, trying to regulate peoples speed. So cool that you don't even give them the warning of brake lights man that's hardcore. IMO 'if they are doing the speed limit they CAN be wherever they wan't to' , but can receive a ticket in the left lane for impeding the flow, as has been stated numerous times. 'But i speed in the right lane and pass on the left' Stop contradicting yourself Mr. Intelligence.

Wow, why don't you just stick the history, you are obviously better at that.

I mean, everyone knows Japan bombed pearl harbor in retaliation for Hiroshima...

[breadbox]