Hate crimes on the rise in the US following Elections...

[themadscientist]

Affirmative action is racist. I am not in favor of it. It displaces qualified applicants based on them being the wrong color and for those of the target color they will always carry the stigma of an affirmative action hire, even if ironically they really were the best applicant.

I have heard some people marginalizing Obama as not "of slave blood" for crying out loud. This just illustrates that ignorance comes in every color. As far as (insert color here)power movements I have little tolerance for militants. Of course being a white guy, the toothless redneck yelling "white power" through a snoot full of tabaky while palming their sister's *** bother me more than Farakhan and his gay bow tie telling me I am a "blue eyed devil". **** him.

[CakeDaddy]

gnats like you otherwise, you might just kicked out of the playground.

nice! name calling and threats, remember I was directing my remark to someone else, not you. calm down

[AZhitman]

Shhhh.

The menfolk are discussing grown-up topics.

[heliochrome85]

Shhhh.

The menfolk are discussing grown-up topics.

thank you sir. thank you.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

... highest office in the land (on his own) ...

*snicker*

[smockers83]

Product of AA? I dont think so, but I cant say for sure. I believe he got into Columbia and Harvard Law without those policies. He went thru college and law school in the 80's and i dont think AA policies existed then.

Of course they existed then and they still do. Where have you been?

AA is practically gone is the US. But here's my take on the issue. I believe it is a fair practice, meaning its purpose is to counteract the discrimination experienced by Blacks, women, and other groups. An issue I have with AA is that it doesnt necessarily help the victims of discrimination. It considers people to be a homogenous group. It assumes it helps the person who was discriminated against, but it reality it may help someone who hasnt been discriminated against. At the same time, it doesnt necessarily correct the discrimination a person did in fact face.

I'll also add that any form of discrimination (from Jim Crow laws to AA) are unconstitutional. But AA was absolutely fair.

Again, AA is still alive and well. Only four states in the Union have banned AA practices and in order for an institution to receive federal funding, it has to abide by certain AA policies. Also, it isn't fair, and its not just me saying that. Friends from a few minorities have told me that when banning it in MI was on the ballot. You are contradicting yourself in your fairness argument here in that something that is, in your view, unconstitutional is still fair. Provide logic on that one please.

Here's my take on affirmative action that I posted in another thread: Affirmative action wasn't created to help low income and poverty stricken people and it hasn't necessarily helped people of all color. It does not promote equality either. The consequences of affirmative action are that someone of color gets an opportunity someone who is white deserved more, or some such thing. It could even be between two minorities, disadvantaging one over the other. It brings diversity but not equality because now the person that was more qualified does not have the opportunity. This is why states are finally taking down their affirmative action statutes as jobs and other opportunities shouldn't be decided on race and those statutes require race/gender/etc to become a factor.

I also view JJ and AS as "race pimps" and consequently racist. Someone who cannot drop race from an issue is inherently racist in my view.

Onto the original topic, let me just say this. So its a race/hate crime if someone does these things because Obama won but its just a no no when someone of the anti- McCain-Palin movements do the same thing?

[AZhitman]

True colorblindness occurs when everyone is taken at their core value - A good example is here on the forums.

When someone posts, I have no idea if they're Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, or what. I can't tell if they're a redneck, a Bible-thumper, a Satan-worshipper, a hippie, a gangsta thug, a decorated war veteran, a doctor, a lawyer, a mass-murderer or a prom queen.

So, people are judged on their merits. As it should be.

Tom Adkins said it beautifully, and I give him kudos for signing hs name to this piece... While it strikes me as a little "over the top", I wonder if it's just because we've been so inundated with political correctness that it's NOT ok to speak our minds once in a while...

Look at my fellow conservatives! There they go, glumly shuffling along, depressed by the election aftermath. Not me. I'm virtually euphoric. Don't get me wrong. I'm not thrilled with America's flirtation with neo socialism. But there's a massive silver lining in those magical clouds that lofted Barak Obama to the Presidency. For today, without a shred of intellectually legitimate opposition, I can loudly proclaim to America: The Era of White Guilt is over.

This seemingly impossible event occurred because the vast majority of white Americans didn't give a fluff about skin color, and enthusiastically pulled the voting lever for a black man. Not just any black man. A very liberal black man who spent his early career race-hustling banks, praying in a racist church for 20 years, and actively worked with America-hating domestic terrorists. Wow! Some resume! Yet they made Barak Obama their leader. Therefore, as of Nov 4th, 2008, white guilt is dead.

For over a century, the millstone of white guilt hung around our necks, retribution for slave-owning predecessors. In the 60s, American liberals began yanking that millstone while sticking a fork in the eye of black Americans, exacerbating the racial divide to extort a socialist solution. But if a black man can become President, exactly what significant barrier is left?

The election of Barak Obama absolutely destroys the entire validation of liberal white guilt. The dragon is hereby slain.

So today, I'm feeling a little "uppity," if you will. From this day forward, my tolerance level for having my skin color hustled is now exactly ZERO. And it's time to clean house. No more Reverend Wright's "God Damn America," Al Sharpton's Church of Perpetual Victimization, or Jesse Jackson's rainbow racism. Cornell West? You're a fraud. Go home. All those "black studies" programs that taught kids to hate whitey? You must now thank Whitey. And I want that on the final.

Congressional Black Caucus? Irrelevant. Maxine Waters? Shut up. ACORN? Outlawed. Black Panthers? Go home and pet your kitty. Black separatists? Find another nation that offers better dreams. Go ahead. I'm waiting. Gangsta rappers? Start praising America. Begin with the Pledge of Allegiance. And please.no more ebonics. Speak English, and who knows where you might end up? Oh, yeah.pull up your pants. Your underwear is showing. You look stupid.

To those Eurosnots who forged entire careers hating America? I'm still waiting for the first black French President.

And let me offer an equal opportunity whupping. I've always despised lazy white people. Now, I can talk smack about lazy black people. You're poor because you quit school, did drugs, had three kids with three different fathers, and refuse to work. So when you plop your Colt 45-swilling, Oprah watchin' butt on the couch and complain "Da Man is keepin' me down," allow me to inform you: Da Man is now black. You have no excuses.

No more quotas. No more handouts. No more stealing my money because someone's great-great-great-great grandparents suffered actual pain and misery at the hands of people I have no relation to, and personally revile.

It's time to toss that massive, obsolete race-hustle machine upon the heap of the other stupid 60s ideas. Drag it over there, by wife swapping, next to dope-smoking. Plenty of room right between free love and cop-killing. Careful. Don't trip on streaking. There ya go, don't be gentle. Just dump it. Wash your hands. It's filthy.

In fact, Obama's ascension created a gargantuan irony. How can you sell class envy and American unfairness when you and your black wife went to Ivy League schools, got high-paying jobs, became millionaires, bought a mansion, and got elected President? How unfair is that??? Now, Like a delicious O'Henry tale, Obama's spread-the-wealth campaign rendered itself moot by it's own victory! America is officially a meritocracy. Obama's election has validated American conservatism!

So, listen carefully. Wham!!!

That's the sound of my foot kicking the door shut on the era of white guilt. The rites have been muttered, the carcass lowered, dirt shoveled, and tombstone erected. White guilt is dead and buried.

However, despite my glee, there's apparently one small, rabid bastion of American racism remaining. Black Americans voted 96% for Barak Obama. Hmmm. In a color-blind world, shouldn't that be 50-50? Tonight, every black person should ask forgiveness for their apparent racism and prejudice towards white people. Maybe it's time to start spreading the guilt around.

[OriginalWheelman]

They have their institutions like the NAACP, the UNCF, BET and countless others that have no equal in the White (or Arab, or Asian, or any other group)....

I got into a discussion with one of my black friends yesterday about this. My brother was arguing that the radio station downtown "WBLK" is racist. RJ, argued that it's not, but you could tell he had never thought about it like that. I looked at him and said "If I opened a radio station downtown and called it "WHIT" and played only white music would it be racist?" RJ, had no answer.

As for Affirmative Action... Affirmative Action is legalized racism. Anything that draws a line based on race, whether it's intentions are good or bad, breeds and fuels racism. When a man is rejected for a job, JUST BECAUSE TOO MANY WHITE PEOPLE WORK THERE IT IS RACIST! WHEN A BLACK MAN GETS A JOB JUST BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH BLACK PEOPLE THERE THAT IS RACIST TOO! When the decision is made based on race alone, which is what affirmative action does, IT IS RACISM!

[C-Kwik]

That Tom Adkins piece makes a lot of wonderful points. He seemed to stray towards the end as the Thesis appears to be centered around haviong overcome racism from whites. I think if he left the notion of trying to shift source of racism to blacks, it would have made a stonger statement. While it may be absolutely true, he may lose a lot of impact with black or ethnic readers. Outside of that, I liked the piece. A lot!

As for affirmative action, I tend to be fairly split on the issue. I agree that it tends to recognize social/racial standings rather than merits and there is quite a bit of unfairness as a result. However, the ideal behind AA is to try and account for a lack of access to equal opportunity. I tend to believe though, that AA is not a good idea in businesses. No business should have to hire someone less qualified for fear of being labelled as racist.

That said, I think there is relevance in our educational system. Now I'm the first person to believe that merits are important. But if you consider that some areas where a high concentration of low-income families exist, the public education system in that area probably sucks. Poor teachers (perhaps some good ones who lost the motivation to teach these kids), poor access to good educational tools and technology, and large classroom sizes can be the norm. This tends to lead to a hostile educational environment where trying to learn is a struggle. THIS is what I believe AA should target. Whether or not it hits the mark? I have no idea.

Personally though, what I'd like to see is that lower income areas are provided with the same access to good educators, tools and equal classroom sizes as some of the better funded schools. From what my sister (teacher) has told me, schools in California receive funding based on their standardized test scores. This has 2 faults. 1, it puts less oney in the hands of schools who need it most. 2, it causes schools to teach to simply achieve better standardized test scores alone rather than truly educating our kids. My thought is attempt to truly equalize education across the board so that this can no longer be a factor. I'd be much more sympathetic to an argument of admissions in to college being purely based on merit if that occurred. Though, my idea would likely never occur. Too much politics involved.

[HashiriyaS14]

An entertaining rant to be sure, but I have a couple nitpicks in the article itself. (I know these aren't your words, I'm nitpicking the author's)

ACORN? Outlawed.

AFAIK, ACORN has no racial allegiences, and so it's continued survival and prosperity would have little to nothing to do with the purported "end of white guilt".

Gangsta rappers? Start praising America.

"Gangsta" rappers may be a lot of things, but they are not, to my knowledge, commonly associated with anti-Americanism. Shooting people in the face maybe, but I can't say I've ever seen 50 cent burning a flag. This seems irrelevant and needlessly "rant-ish" to me.

However, despite my glee, there's apparently one small, rabid bastion of American racism remaining. Black Americans voted 96% for Barak Obama. Hmmm. In a color-blind world, shouldn't that be 50-50? Tonight, every black person should ask forgiveness for their apparent racism and prejudice towards white people. Maybe it's time to start spreading the guilt around.

Leaving aside that this guy, in a published article that I bet Greg just copy-and-pasted, misspelled the name of the President Elect of the United States. Anyway....

This isn't exactly fair, although I see it mentioned all the time.

The vast majority of the US Black population is urban, and urban voters as a demographic turned out overwhelmingly for Barack Obama, not even close to 50-50. In fact, the US population at large didn't even turn out 50-50, I seem to recall it being 52% to 46%, which includes millions of rural voters that are almost exclusively white.

A 50/50 split of black voters between Obama and McCain would represent an enormous shift to the RIGHT for that demographic, it would not be "normal".

Furthermore, most black voters in the US have been historically Democratic, at least in the last 40 years. The only segment of the black voting population that this "rip" could potentially apply to are those blacks that voted for Obama but not for Kerry, which is a small margin indeed. Obama didn't get a much higher margin of the black vote than Kerry did.

And even among those who DID vote for Obama and not for Kerry, to call them all "racist", you'd have to believe that not a single one of them believed that Obama is a better potential President, regardless of color, than John Kerry. Even the conservatives in here likely agree that Obama is probably better POTUS material than Kerry is, which cuts down the potential "racists" even further.

This is a weak argument and the right needs to stop pulling it out. The statistics are just all wrong. You can't disagree with math.

[ishkabibble]

In a color-blind world, shouldn't that be 50-50?

Using that non-logic, every election would end in (close to) a tie.

[CakeDaddy]

An entertaining rant to be sure, but I have a couple nitpicks in the article itself. (I know these aren't your words, I'm nitpicking the author's)

AFAIK, ACORN has no racial allegiences, and so it's continued survival and prosperity would have little to nothing to do with the purported "end of white guilt".

"Gangsta" rappers may be a lot of things, but they are not, to my knowledge, commonly associated with anti-Americanism. Shooting people in the face maybe, but I can't say I've ever seen 50 cent burning a flag. This seems irrelevant and needlessly "rant-ish" to me.

Leaving aside that this guy, in a published article that I bet Greg just copy-and-pasted, misspelled the name of the President Elect of the United States. Anyway....

This isn't exactly fair, although I see it mentioned all the time.

The vast majority of the US Black population is urban, and urban voters as a demographic turned out overwhelmingly for Barack Obama, not even close to 50-50. In fact, the US population at large didn't even turn out 50-50, I seem to recall it being 52% to 46%, which includes millions of rural voters that are almost exclusively white.

A 50/50 split of black voters between Obama and McCain would represent an enormous shift to the RIGHT for that demographic, it would not be "normal".

Furthermore, most black voters in the US have been historically Democratic, at least in the last 40 years. The only segment of the black voting population that this "rip" could potentially apply to are those blacks that voted for Obama but not for Kerry, which is a small margin indeed. Obama didn't get a much higher margin of the black vote than Kerry did.

And even among those who DID vote for Obama and not for Kerry, to call them all "racist", you'd have to believe that not a single one of them believed that Obama is a better potential President, regardless of color, than John Kerry. Even the conservatives in here likely agree that Obama is probably better POTUS material than Kerry is, which cuts down the potential "racists" even further.

This is a weak argument and the right needs to stop pulling it out. The statistics are just all wrong. You can't disagree with math.

Mr.Talking Head..... Did you understand what was posted by Hashiriya? Read it again! I'll test you later
Modified by CakeDaddy at 7:27 AM 12/5/2008

[hannibal]

^ Huh??

Of course they existed then and they still do. Where have you been?

Again, AA is still alive and well.

Good. Hopefully it helps a victim of discrimination as its intended...

Please dont misunderstand my comments about AA. Its goal is correct and fair. However, any policy that puts one perosn before another based on their race is unconstitutional. Should people that have been discriminated against be compensated for their difficulties? Yes and I dont mean financially. They should be compensated by being guaranteed a fair chance. AA seeks to counteract the racism that exists in the job market, in college admission, and elsewhere. Anything that eliminates this bias is fair to those who suffered from it. If AA cant accomplished this, then we need something that can.

Jim Crow laws were neither fair nor constitutional. Neither was slavery. Yet these ideas continued for hundreds of years before we realised how wrong they were. A program created to counteract these lingering effects seems appropriate to me.

Another example. SOmeone jacked OJ's stuff. He went to get it back. Thats fair. He pulled a gun and assaulted the dude. Thats illegal. Bad example, I know...

Dont know who Tom Adkins is, but I think he's missed the reason Barack was elected. It wasnt because of his race. It was because people thought he was the better candidate. End of sentence. Barack is not the first person of African decent to run for president.

We've had 43 White presidents before him, yet groups like the KKK and such are still fighting for White power. Why?? When Geo Washington was elected, they should have sat down and put their feet on the coffee table. Their job was done. In the same light, the election of a half Black man as president doesnt mean racism has vanished. It doesnt mean that victims of racism have suddenly been granted a reprieve.

Would you argue that the Bushes, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, etc were elected because theyre white? Saying Obama was elected because of his race is just as senseless.

It reminds me of a lesson I learned in middle school. A teacher asked me why all the Black kids sat together at lunch. I had Black friends and White friends, geek friends and band nerd friends. Friends on the football team and friends on the honor roll. I sat with whomever I felt like. Regardless, I explained to the teacher that the White kids sat together too. Ask them why. The puzzled look on her face said it all. You gotta be able to see things from another perspective. Its easy to say he's Black, that explains a b and c. Using that same logic wouldnt you have to admit that the other guy is x y and z because he's White???

Tom Adkins quote:And let me offer an equal opportunity whupping. I've always despised lazy white people. Now, I can talk smack about lazy black people. You're poor because you quit school, did drugs, had three kids with three different fathers, and refuse to work. So when you plop your Colt 45-swilling, Oprah watchin' butt on the couch and complain "Da Man is keepin' me down," allow me to inform you: Da Man is now black. You have no excuses.

Wow. What is Tommy smoking? Where does the connection from being lazy to being poor come in. Lazy people are poor because they are lazy. However, most people are NOT poor because theyre lazy. He is simply trying to blur the relationship btw the two. But it does serve to catch people's attention, which I guess is his goal. Kinda like showing a Black family whenever they talk about welfare on a news program. If you didnt know better, you might think that the majority of people on welfare were Black.

[Armelius]

I am not sure if you are looking at it correctly. If Obama was white would he have been elected. The answer might be a no. Reason is because he wouldn't have become a Harvard educated attorney due to affirmative action. Someone else would have got that spot.

Chicago is pure politics. You can't get anywhere unless someone puts you there first.

I could say a similar thing about Utah or Salt Lake City.

Just look at what Colin Powell said about Obama. I doubt he would have said those things if Obama was white.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_c5bbvmqc

[themadscientist]

I am not sure if you are looking at it correctly. If Obama was white would he have been elected. The answer might be a no. Reason is because he wouldn't have become a Harvard educated attorney due to affirmative action. Someone else would have got that spot.

Chicago is pure politics. You can't get anywhere unless someone puts you there first.

I could say a similar thing about Utah or Salt Lake City.

Just look at what Colin Powell said about Obama. I doubt he would have said those things if Obama was white.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_c5bbvmqc

You will have to back that claim up. I don't know how he made it into Harvard. If you are suggesting it was an AA decision you need to show proof of that.

Newsflash, life is pure politics. Chicago is a notable example but you still need connections anywhere. We have come along way from the local meeting house.

I think a certain amount of his appeal is rac-based but I still think his message was what people wanted to hear at this point in history, it would have garnered results regardless. McCain's campaign was incredibly bad, Mondale would have stood a chance.

[Armelius]

In a way you are right. But if you compared Palin's rise with Obama's rise you would see that they are entirely different. She went against people in her own party and democrats. While Obama said that if you spend more money on him then you could get better results.

I didn't want to move AA or make some opinion of mine based solely on race. But I can tell you no white person could get elected by saying they were going to raise taxes. Hillary would have lost the election. I am almost 100 percent positive that with a wild reverend saying "damn America" or if someone even looked like they came from Saudi Arabia or a 9.11 hijacker sounding name who looked pure white would not have been elected President. Example might be Bashar al-Assad.

[themadscientist]

I used to care about doublestandards, I don't anymore. It's all my fault, whatever group it may be somehow they are kept down by lil ole me. Ok, whatever. Obama gets away it more by being a liberal democrat with a complicit media than being black. I saw more racial-tinged detraction aimed at him by blacks then whites. I dislike him based on his issues and I don't buy into the idea that he succeeded purely by not being white. Obama is a smooth talker and Americans are quite ready to believe anything if you say it well. No, he is a brilliant politician and America got played. I blame the Republicans for making it so easy to do, they are getting so good at shooting themselves in the foot they should go with Plexico in 2012.

[Armelius]

I wouldn't call him brilliant unless I saw him do something. So far I just hear talk.

If you look at Dennis Cucinich then you would see someone who did something for a city that was beginning to look like Gary, Indiana. Not a great politician or brilliant mind but his wife sure looked better than what was hanging on Obama's arm.

Yet many of the same things Cucinch was saying Obama was saying. Except Cucinich said it like he meant it. The first day Cucinch took office he would send the troops home or redeployed them. That's great. That is real change.

If you look at Gates you would see he goes all the way back to Ronald Reagan. That isn't change. That is all I have to say for now.

[themadscientist]

I wouldn't call him brilliant unless I saw him do something. So far I just hear talk.

I didn't say that, I said this, different.

No, he is a brilliant politician and America got played.

You will find very few more vocal than I that he has no track record to stand on; we agree completely on him being all talk.

[hannibal]

I am not sure if you are looking at it correctly. If Obama was white would he have been elected. The answer might be a no. Reason is because he wouldn't have become a Harvard educated attorney due to affirmative action. Someone else would have got that spot.

If Obama was White, it woulda just been another election. People would vote for their candidate and no one would question if he was elected because of his race. I find it rediculous to believe he made it to the presidency simply because of his race. As I said, other Black people have run for president before. Where was the "liberal white guilt" then? LOL! That term makes me laugh...

Interesting how you assume he went to Ivy undergrad and law school based on AA. Consider Dubya. He's an Ivy Leaguer. How did he get in? It wasnt AA. It wasnt his superior academic performance. It was his family. To use your words, thats a spot someone else woulda got.

But I can tell you no white person could get elected by saying they were going to raise taxes. Hillary would have lost the election. I am almost 100 percent positive that with a wild reverend saying "damn America" or if someone even looked like they came from Saudi Arabia or a 9.11 hijacker sounding name who looked pure white would not have been elected President. Example might be Bashar al-Assad.

Obama said he would lower taxes for over 95% of taxpayers. That brought him tons of support. He said he would only raise taxes for the wealthiest Americans.

"9.11 hijacker sounding name" Rethink your logical buddy. A name doesnt make the man. Dont be so shallow...

[themadscientist]

People are that shallow though. The whole Barrack HUSSEIN Obama thing resonated with a segment of the population. Some people still think he is a muslim which is ignorant and even if he was why is that bad? The only part of Powell's speech I agreed with.

[Armelius]

If Obama was White, it woulda just been another election. People would vote for their candidate and no one would question if he was elected because of his race. I find it rediculous to believe he made it to the presidency simply because of his race. As I said, other Black people have run for president before. Where was the "liberal white guilt" then? LOL! That term makes me laugh...

Interesting how you assume he went to Ivy undergrad and law school based on AA. Consider Dubya. He's an Ivy Leaguer. How did he get in? It wasnt AA. It wasnt his superior academic performance. It was his family. To use your words, thats a spot someone else woulda got.

Obama said he would lower taxes for over 95% of taxpayers. That brought him tons of support. He said he would only raise taxes for the wealthiest Americans.

"9.11 hijacker sounding name" Rethink your logical buddy. A name doesnt make the man. Dont be so shallow...

It's obvious how George W. Bush got anywhere with his father helping him along. Bush didn't get elected because of race but because of his tribe.

Obama said he going to redistribute the wealth. If Bush had said it then everyone would know that meant socialism for the wealthy.

If the elections were held right after 9.11 and Obama was running it wouldn't matter what color is on his skin his name would have prevented him from going anywhere.

Hillary Clinton complained how the press was treating Obama. And a person like Oprah had a choice either not to endorse or to endorse based on skin color or gender. I watched plenty of people in the media not ask the hard questions until "Joe the plumber" asked the obvious. That is a long time to build up a following.

And if anyone listens to Obama's speech or how he answers questions he tends to say "uh" too much. If he said "like" instead of "uh" then he would really fit in with the Oprah crowd.

Somewhere on this link http://howobamagotelected.com/ explains it all.

[themadscientist]

again, that sort of voter will vote reflexively for the candidate that meets their dogma. It is not exclusively a weak, whiny liberal trait either, conservatives have their mindless soldiers too.

[Armelius]

the way I see it voting is some sort of labor of love where you vote for the candidate that is most like you or someone you can identify with.

people may not identify with McCain because he is old. If he chose a candidate like Ron Paul for VP then people may see two old white guys trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

Obama is young and not like the rest. A very different person compared to the other candidates.

You saw how the crowd wanted McCain to be tougher on Obama and McCain backed down. You saw the "crazy" McCain supporter call Obama a muslem. It's sort of ignorant but instead of McCain just laughing it off he took it seriously and spoke of praise of Obama.

With that sort of campaign people might think McCain just didn't have it in him to go after someone. Then the Palin pick was a nail in the coffin if people couldn't identify with someone so plain Jane.

Granted some people might like ending drug laws or doing something completely different than the current administration.

But you could also ask why more people, blacks especially, weren't backing someone like Ron Paul.

I went to that Obama website and plugged in some numbers and it came back that I would save more with Obama or whatever. A complete lie. But people buy that sort of thing.

[hannibal]

Just noticed youre new around here. Welcome!

It's obvious how George W. Bush got anywhere with his father helping him along. Bush didn't get elected because of race but because of his tribe.

Obama said he going to redistribute the wealth. If Bush had said it then everyone would know that meant socialism for the wealthy.

If the elections were held right after 9.11 and Obama was running it wouldn't matter what color is on his skin his name would have prevented him from going anywhere.

Hillary Clinton complained how the press was treating Obama. And a person like Oprah had a choice either not to endorse or to endorse based on skin color or gender. I watched plenty of people in the media not ask the hard questions until "Joe the plumber" asked the obvious. That is a long time to build up a following.

And if anyone listens to Obama's speech or how he answers questions he tends to say "uh" too much. If he said "like" instead of "uh" then he would really fit in with the Oprah crowd.

Somewhere on this link http://howobamagotelected.com/ explains it all.

Taxes are, by definition, a redistribution of wealth. The issue is who is taxed more heavily. Thats not socialism, though using that term can arouse people's suspicions. But only the uninformed should fall for that.

Not sure I believe that Obama couldnt have been elected immediately following 9/11. I mean, we're still fighting two wars as a consequence of that attack. Maybe more people supported Obama because our current pres has us fighting in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. I feel thats the only real connection btw Obama and 9/11.

"And a person like Oprah had a choice either not to endorse or to endorse based on skin color or gender."I think youre wrong again. Oprah had the choice to not endose or endose the candidate she supported. Why would she pick a candidate based on their gender or race? She had never endorsed a candidate before, so to believe she HAD to choose a candidate to support is just false.

Joe the PLumber deserved a straight answer from Obama. I cant remember Obama's response, but it should have been "If you buy this plumbing company, and earn over $250k per year, you will have to pay more taxes under my plan." Thats the truth and that should have been the reply. Most people are smart enough to realize that Joe paying higher taxes isnt a reason to criticize Obama's tax plan. The other side of the coin is that if Joe doesnt buy this business and continues to earn his current salary (I'm assuming its under $200k per yr), Obama would save him money vs McCain's plan.

If youre gonna criticize a president for using 'um', what could you say about McCain's funny faces or Dubya making up words. Deciderer?!? Come on. With everything else equal, I'll always choose the guy thats makes sense when the words come out.

the way I see it voting is some sort of labor of love where you vote for the candidate that is most like you or someone you can identify with....I went to that Obama website and plugged in some numbers and it came back that I would save more with Obama or whatever. A complete lie. But people buy that sort of thing.

IMO, people should vote for the person that seeks to serve their interests and goals, not the person that is most like them. The only people that should vote for someone like themselves are the candidates hahaha.

You dont seem to believe Obama's tax plan or McCain's for that matter. McCain proposed giving a $21 tax cut to people earning less than $19k per yr. Thats about 0.1% of their income. WTF is $21 gonna do? McCain also proposed a 10% tax cut for the highest tax bracket. IMO, McCain's ideas are backwards.

You dont believe Obama's tax plan will save you money if you earn under $200k?? It doesnt make you a socialist. It makes you a logical person (assuming you were chosing a candidate based on their tax plans alone). You cant argue the facts of the plans. But you can believe that a candidate may renege on thier proposed plans.

[Armelius]

Alright Hannibal thanks for the welcome but you not looking between the lines or what is really been going on ever since the democrats established central banking in the US and a tax system that is not only oppressive but socialistic (government overstepping it's bounds).

By any rate no person should be able to get elected by saying they are going to raise taxes. Even if it's to raise taxes to the rich. It's like the only way trickle down economics work is through taxes. The rich don't pay a large percent because they can push that down to the people poorer than them. Or just raise their prices due to the taxes they have to pay.

Then you have things like military spending and deployments (yes WWII is over and our troops are still "over there"), NAFTA and a tax system that no one comprehends.

Remember nearly four years ago Obama was a Sarah Palin and only people like Biden or Hillary were getting the media buzz. With the republicans it was a wide open field.

So somehow Obama got elected to the Senate and through a speech at the democratic convention attacked Bush and the war in Iraq which was still fairly popular.

After that point then the people who call themselves journalists became mesmerized by those "uhs" and "ahs." Obama didn't even have to put his hand on his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance was played. The media and even his opponents ignored it.

When "Joe" asked the tough question it was "Joe" who went on the hot seat and people asked who is this man. Things like that hurt Obama because he had to "uh" and "ah" people some more. Suddenly people didn't care if Obama went to a moslem school was black or even had the country's best interest at hand. They just wanted change.

Well here you go.



I here people say Huckabee would be better than McCain and they are probably right until it looks like he is part of the religious right and that he would use the state to interfere with abortions or what people might want to do to their own bodies.

Obama or Bush or who ever I really would like to see do good. But keeping the current system and bailing out big corporations is just socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us.