Has anyone replaced injector #4 w/o removing plenum?

[3Q Jay]

i like really really clean cars......

[maxnix]

Yes! Nice shots!

It's so crazy when owners try to short cut high mileage plenum jobs when anyone who has done the whole 9 yards knows they become filthy in just 50K miles. I was amazed how dirty the VH41DE was when it was just over 20K sice it was cleaned.

[carcrazyguy]

Yes! Nice shots!

It's so crazy when owners try to short cut high mileage plenum jobs when anyone who has done the whole 9 yards knows they become filthy in just 50K miles. I was amazed how dirty the VH41DE was when it was just over 20K sice it was cleaned.

I've seen people add water injection to an NA just to clean everything up...and it works. Everything (south of the injection point) looks new after a month or so. Also, this would allow one to run, say 87 octane in a car requiring 91. But we digress.

I finally got the injectors out today. I tryed a different technique, prying all around in a semi-circle. Lets just see if I can get everything back together working...

[maxnix]

Good going! Watch out for the pintle protectors.

[carcrazyguy]

Watch out for the pintle protectors.

WTF are those? Is that related to the flux capacitor, lol?

[Q451990]

He's talking about the plastic tips on the end of the injectors.

I'm going to try the method listed here once I figure out what I'm going to do about my injector failures. Click here

Check out step 33 with photos 46 and 47. This seems like the best method I have seen so far. Of course the rail has to be completely removed to do this.

Heath

[carcrazyguy]

He's talking about the plastic tips on the end of the injectors.

I'm going to try the method listed here once I figure out what I'm going to do about my injector failures. Click here

Check out step 33 with photos 46 and 47. This seems like the best method I have seen so far. Of course the rail has to be completely removed to do this.

Heath

I could not tell much from those photos - as my monitor is getting old. Even putting them on desktop and lightening them (via software) didn't help.

Anyway, is there any special procedure when putting the injectors back in (is this when to watch the pintle things?). Or can I simply drop them in the rail and bolt the caps back on? In other words, does the injectors need to be dead flush in the rail initially, or can the caps be used to push them in place somewhat?

[goody90q45]

Slobber up the inside of the fuel rail with vaseline, do the same to the o-ring grooves on the FI before putting the o-rings on and then the same after the o-rings are on. Don't be afraid to overdo it or even cover the screens on the FI as all the excess will burn off in the first few seconds after you start the engine. Also make sre to clean up the inside of the fuel rail cup where the FI will go. I use a penetrant and a thin rag.

If you've lubed it up properly and cleaned the cup it should pop right in to the proper level by hand (with a rag as a cushion). The FI can get banged around removing it but the pintle cap is not an issue during installation as long as you're careful placing the FI into the rail.

I've used this procedure 5 or 6 times with the same results and never had a leak when I got it put back together.

[Q451990]

Slobber up the inside of the fuel rail with vaseline...If you've lubed it up properly

Somehow I feel dirty now

I have used vaseline in the past, but I noticed that the FSM for later years suggests using motor oil. I don't know if it's as critical what kind of lubricant is used, as much as it's critical that something be used. I think I'll use motor oil when I replace mine - maybe there's some reason that they said that in the FSM.

Heath

[96Qowner]

Slobber up the inside of the fuel rail with vaseline, do the same to the o-ring grooves on the FI before putting the o-rings on and then the same after the o-rings are on. Don't be afraid to overdo it or even cover the screens on the FI as all the excess will burn off in the first few seconds after you start the engine. Also make sre to clean up the inside of the fuel rail cup where the FI will go. I use a penetrant and a thin rag.

If you've lubed it up properly and cleaned the cup it should pop right in to the proper level by hand (with a rag as a cushion). The FI can get banged around removing it but the pintle cap is not an issue during installation as long as you're careful placing the FI into the rail.

I've used this procedure 5 or 6 times with the same results and never had a leak when I got it put back together.

We've had too many posters come here with a torn o-ring, with the resulting hydrolock and probable rod damage. This is a good time to be very careful - make sure the o-rings stay intact and are properly seated.

[carcrazyguy]

Well, got the car back together yesterday, and the car ran fine - drove it maybe 5 miles yesterday to be sure. Dad drove it this morning, maybe 20 miles without a problem. However, when he returned to it this afternoon, it would not start. He called me and I went to it...and it acted like the engine was locked up, as it would not turn over.

After maybe 3 attempts, the car started as normal, but ran a little rough and (blue) smoked quite a bit. Yeech, what have I done now??? Is this related or just a coincidence?

[3Q Jay]

suggest fuel pressure leakdown test before you try cranking it again.

[carcrazyguy]

suggest fuel pressure leakdown test before you try cranking it again.

Can you give me a hint on where to find the hot-to info on that? I checked the tech pages as well as seach and didn't find it.

[Q451990]

We've had too many posters come here with a torn o-ring, with the resulting hydrolock and probable rod damage. This is a good time to be very careful - make sure the o-rings stay intact and are properly seated.

Read this part again!!! (I'm not saying 96Qowner is stupid, but it's the only smiley that has a sign with an arrow point up )

The leakdown test involves getting a fuel pressure gauge and "t-ing" it in to the fuel line. Then you can watch for the pressure to drop off. It should hold steady. It's very possible that you pinched the lower o-ring in the process of replacing that injector, and it's leaking down while the car sits. This is part of why we always recommend removing the entire rail and testing it under pressure off of the car (hooked up to the fuel hoses, but not bolted to the runners) to look for leaks before reassembly.

I know all of the limitations you said you're dealing with on working on your dad's car, but...

Heath

[carcrazyguy]

Read this part again!!! (I'm not saying 96Qowner is stupid, but it's the only smiley that has a sign with an arrow point up )

The leakdown test involves getting a fuel pressure gauge and "t-ing" it in to the fuel line. Then you can watch for the pressure to drop off. It should hold steady. It's very possible that you pinched the lower o-ring in the process of replacing that injector, and it's leaking down while the car sits. This is part of why we always recommend removing the entire rail and testing it under pressure off of the car (hooked up to the fuel hoses, but not bolted to the runners) to look for leaks before reassembly.

I know all of the limitations you said you're dealing with on working on your dad's car, but...

Heath

It looks like now he is going to take it somewhere and at least let them look at itRegardless, I believe he will end up getting a new car unless by some one in a million chance the repair place he takes it to is honest and reasonable. But we all know they are going to tell him it need a new engine or something.

[maxnix]

It looks like now he is going to take it somewhere and at least let them look at itRegardless, I believe he will end up getting a new car unless by some one in a million chance the repair place he takes it to is honest and reasonable. But we all know they are going to tell him it need a new engine or something.

If it's hydraulically locked from a pinched injector O ring, I doubt he will be taking it anywhere unless it is on a flatbed. And they may well be correct about it needing another engine if that is the problem.

Good luck.

[carcrazyguy]

It doesn't seem to be locked. As I said a couple posts before, it starts up and runs / drives...but just poorly with some blue smoke.

[Q451990]

I assume the smoke is a dark blue color... almost black? If so that indicates a rich running condition, and is almost certainly a pinched lower o-ring given the work that you just did.

I guess the real question becomes, even if you get this fixed - is your dad going to want to do when the next injector fails in a couple of weeks? With the ethanol blended fuels, these cars are quickly becoming something that only someone who really loves them can put up with maintaining...

Heath

[carcrazyguy]

I assume the smoke is a dark blue color... almost black? If so that indicates a rich running condition, and is almost certainly a pinched lower o-ring given the work that you just did.

I guess the real question becomes, even if you get this fixed - is your dad going to want to do when the next injector fails in a couple of weeks? With the ethanol blended fuels, these cars are quickly becoming something that only someone who really loves them can put up with maintaining...

Heath

The smoke was not really white or black...but in the middle...more blue.

Either way, I figure he will have to get his car running right before anything can be done, because lets face it, these cars only sell to a niche market.

In other words, as it currently is, it would likely be impossible to sell it. On top of that, there is no dealer locally - so any potential local buyers have no familiarity or confidence in Infiniti, especially one that is not running right, so even selling it fixed won't be a piece of cake.

So it is a catch 22...a sad scenario either way - as it looks better than most of them I see on the road (or on Autotrader). But with the miles and other factors, who knows.

[carcrazyguy]

Got back to his car again yesterday and tested the injectors again. All were good except for one @ 28 ohms. So is it possible this could be causing this problem or would it take more than that to cause poor running / blue smoke?

In addition, I still have one extra (good used) injector I could put in its place, but upon looking at it, two of the pintle arms are broken off. Can it still be used?

[AlabamaDan]

This is what I have to look forward to.

[maxnix]

This is what I have to look forward to.

hopefully you will not try to shortcut it and do the whole nine yards. The results are exponentially better.

[Q451990]

Got back to his car again yesterday and tested the injectors again. All were good except for one @ 28 ohms. So is it possible this could be causing this problem or would it take more than that to cause poor running / blue smoke?

Very Unlikely that it's causing smoke... I think it's the one you already replaced leaking down due to a pinched lower o-ring, or possibly a bad MAF conection that developed during the work. Which other injector is bad?

In addition, I still have one extra (good used) injector I could put in its place, but upon looking at it, two of the pintle arms are broken off. Can it still be used?

Two of the pintile arms are broken? What do you mean? Can you post a picture of it?

Heath

[carcrazyguy]

1.Very Unlikely that it's causing smoke... I think it's the one you already replaced leaking down due to a pinched lower o-ring, or possibly a bad MAF conection that developed during the work. Which other injector is bad?

2.Two of the pintile arms are broken? What do you mean? Can you post a picture of it?

1. Yes, that makes sense, as it acted like it wanted to hydro lock but did start and run after a few cranks. Maybe it was filling up with gas? Hope no permanent damage was done. I think the MAF is fine, as I took it off and put it away carefully.

2. Here is a pic.

[Q451990]

I see... for some reason I was thinking you were working on a 90-93 so that's why I was confused. There are so many injector threads now

I think the tip is available separately from the dealer on that style of injector.

Heath

[AlabamaDan]

I've been reading many injector threads here and it seems to me the OEM injector for 94-96 aren't the best, at least to handle gas with eth in it. SOOOOOOoooooo......... is that really the only injector that will fit and work? I know the Q is finiky, but you'd think that with all the other injectors in the universe we haven't found a better injector.

[Q45tech]

Side feed injectors to fit in oem rails are a rare and obsolete type, today most injectors are top feed. In fact since around 2002 returnless fuel rails have become more and more standard.

As long as the replacement injector is 370cc at 43.4 psi and is a staturated 12 ohm type it can function with ecu.

Redesigning the fuel rail is a serious engineering venture if as oem idle, cruise, and WOT is to be maintained.

To me it is easier to replace injectors even at $2,000 than to spend time redesigning something for such a limited market.

I doubt even 10 would spend $3,000 to change injectors, rails, and runners to a better more modern design.

[maxnix]

I doubt even 10 would spend $3,000 to change injectors, rails, and runners to a better more modern design.

I would x2 if I had to. I know I ran MTBE in my Seattle car 40K miles less summer so 20K miles? No ill affects that I can notcie nor measure.

Injectors tested A++ at Deatschwerks.

[Q451990]

I am awaiting a response from David at Deatschwerks about testing some aftermarket injectors that are said to be good even with E85. I'm skeptical about finding good aftermarket injectors - but we'll see.

Heath

[AlabamaDan]

I am awaiting a response from David at Deatschwerks about testing some aftermarket injectors that are said to be good even with E85. I'm skeptical about finding good aftermarket injectors - but we'll see.

So he's testing these super injectors in a VH45DE? Be sure to let us know.