Gun owners, Obama is actively trying to ban guns now

[HashiriyaS14]

An assault weapons ban is not the same thing as a ban on all firearms.

I'm not saying this in an attempt to argue any particular viewpoint, I'm just pointing out an obvious fact. There have been bans on assault weapons before, and yet people continued to own plenty of firearms.

Now for the opinion:

I do NOT believe that an assault weapons ban is somehow the first step of a plan to eliminate private ownership of all weapons. It is what it is, nothing more and nothing less. It bans particular weapons and is in no way a harbinger of future more comprehensive weapons bans.

Feel free to disagree with me, but my statement is entirely subjective and thus it isn't going to make for a terribly interesting argument :-P

[Cold_Zero]

An assault weapons ban is not the same thing as a ban on all firearms.

Hash, with most of us having lived through the first and second (revision) Assault Weapons ban under the Clinton Administration, I think we all are aware that it never even made assault weapons illegal to buy or produce. The measure grandfathered in all assault rifles produced before the ban and rifles made after the ban with pre-ban parts. Then firearms manufacturers found ways to get around the ban to produce legal Assault Weapons.

Quote »Now for the opinion:It is what it is [/quote]A waste of time, an effort to make politicians think they are fighting crime and a feel good effort for the Anti Gun Lobby.

BTW bro, I think I will be in NOVA come the 3rd week in March and the 2nd week in April.

[HashiriyaS14]

BTW bro, I think I will be in NOVA come the 3rd week in March and the 2nd week in April.

Oh we are DEFINITELY grabbing a beer!

Hit me up on email, the one in my profile.

And yeah, I agree that the assault weapons ban is just a paper "gimme victory" for the anti-gun lobby. I'm generally pretty pro-2nd Amendment, I think VA has just about ideal gun laws, but the general non-impact that something like the AWB has makes me unconcerned about it. People get all up in arms about it but it doesn't really mean much of anything.

[bobotech]

If the last attempt at a ban went though, it would have encompassed a MUCH wider variety of weapons. Including such guns as the Ruger 10-22.

The new ban won't be a "name only/feature only" style ban. The last ban was like that, it either banned guns by name (AK47/AR15/MP5/etc) or feature (you could only have 1 or 2 evil features on a semi auto rifle such as a bayonet lug/pistol grip/folding stock/threaded muzzle/etc). It was pretty darned easy for manufactuers to skirt the ban by making guns that didn't have the same name as the ban name (AK47 became Mak 90 or whatever) and made guns that eliminated the evil features.

This new ban won't be like that. It will probably ban all those guns and features period.

I don't thinK I will ever live to see true confiscation but NO gun fan wants to live though another AWB like the last one.

Just plain stupid.

The worst thing about the ban IMHO would be a cap on mag limits. 10 round mag limits would SUCK.

Hell, a Marlin model 60 22 has a tube fed mag and can hold 18 round, that would be illegal. My lever action replica Model 1892 in 357mag would be illegal (holds 13 rounds in the tube).

Mag limits SUCK!!

[bobotech]

And yeah, I agree that the assault weapons ban is just a paper "gimme victory" for the anti-gun lobby. I'm generally pretty pro-2nd Amendment, I think VA has just about ideal gun laws, but the general non-impact that something like the AWB has makes me unconcerned about it. People get all up in arms about it but it doesn't really mean much of anything.

Non-impact of a new AWB? Did you actually buy high cap mags during the ban and pay cheap prices for them for your pistols? Were you able to get non-neutered guns for cheap? I doubt it.

Just read up on the new bills and see what would be affected. Much worse than the last one.

Pretty scary to say the least.

[OriginalWheelman]

The bottom line.

Banning guns, any gun, will NOT stop violent crime. Man killed each other FAR before we had guns. Guns are a tool. If you need to pound in a nail, and you don't have a hammer, you don't give up, you find another tool. You use a screwdriver, a rock, a wrench, but you still do what you had intended. While these other tools did not do the job AS WELL, they still did the job. Likewise, if you want to kill someone, there are baseball bats, cars, piano wire, axes, FISTS, etc. If one person wants to kill another, the lack of a gun will not stop them. Furthermore, gun shots are easier to live through tan stab wounds. Guns bans are legislative equivalent of cough syrup. They do not address the problem, it treats the symptom.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

And yeah, I agree that the assault weapons ban is just a paper "gimme victory" for the anti-gun lobby. I'm generally pretty pro-2nd Amendment, I think VA has just about ideal gun laws, but the general non-impact that something like the AWB has makes me unconcerned about it. People get all up in arms about it but it doesn't really mean much of anything.

You're off by a letter. VT has the best gun laws in the nation.

[Jacko3]

Check it out: guns are killing the repoman and the repoed

http://www.usatoday.com/news/n...N.htm

Once there is a gun, someone is gonna die or kick the bucket so hard, you are gonna think an angel dropped to the floor from heaven Mercy. mercy. mercy

I beleive if we tackle the demons in man, guns will automatically become harmless.

[C-Kwik]

C-Can so share your sources?

There was a correlating article within the ABC article. But I did a keyword search with mexico gun sources and there were just numerous hits stating essentially the same thing. Probably based off the same reports, but I simply posed it as a question as I honestly don't know either way and others were contending that the US is not the source.

s***, if I were the Attorney General of the United States I would blame the correct Military, Political and Police officials in Mexico before I blamed American Citizens. Bud

While I agree to some extent (last time I went to Mexico, noone checked anything on my way in through TJ), I find this what Mexico is saying similar to an article I saw a while ago contending that guns were being brought into California from states that didn't require registration. Not sure if it applies directly, as I can't recall where I saw the article and what it stated exactly.

[bobotech]

Rather GOOD news for a change:

Pelosi & Reid say no AWB is in the works. Reliable rumor has it that the AG got a White House message to shut up.

http://senatus.wordpress.com/2...vival/

As someone said in another forum:

Thank you Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.

Jeebus, we're officially in CrazyWorld.

[liquid_cool]

you do realize that the mexican military is running drugs along with the cartells throu mexico now that we have mor sophisticated equipment in florida area to stop them there..along with this traffic came the guns and "Mortars", "Rocket Launchers" fully automatic "AK47's"..i dont think the average american keeps any of those under there bed man...the guns are being supplyed to the mexican gangs..like "LaEme'"<---dont know the spelling... and the "Texas Mexican Mafia" or socal gangs on this side of the border like "F-troop" or "Delhigh" and even" lacosanostra"...the guns are smuggled in to arest some turf from rivals who sling drugs...they allso use the wepons against out border partoll agents on a regular basis..there have been know incodents of "Morter attacks" on our border agents from the mexico side in "Sanyasedro" next to "TJ"..there have allso been incodents ov attacks with "Grenades and Rocket Launchers" against our border patroll agents on the Texas border towns...this is getting serious now..and sad part is..barely any news coverage..reaserch a little more and you might realize where the guns and money are coming and going to.

[HashiriyaS14]

You're off by a letter. VT has the best gun laws in the nation.

Hm, may be.

I'm just familiar with VA because they're right next door to the South. I like the idea of unlicensed open carry, and open carry in general.

If *everyone* carried open, I think we'd have a lot fewer problems with crime.

[BusyBadger]

If *everyone* carried open, I think we'd have a lot fewer problems with crime.

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

-Robert A. Heinlein

[Jacko3]

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

-Robert A. Heinlein

who is Robert Heinlein? I disagree with him. An armed society may not necessarily be a polite society. It may be a slightly more restraint society, an yet remain as imploite as it could ever be.

And sometimes, a life is just as important or as valuable as its purpose for being or existence. A life that lacks purpose, whether the owner of the life be armed with a gun or not, may not necessarily be fortified with the requisite manners. Thus, the possibility of reckless behavior (has nothing to lose and is always angry) may still be a possibility for a purposeless life, and hence lack of manners.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Hm, may be.

I'm just familiar with VA because they're right next door to the South. I like the idea of unlicensed open carry, and open carry in general.

If *everyone* carried open, I think we'd have a lot fewer problems with crime.

VT has no state firearm laws. Only the federal laws apply. Anyone who can legally own a gun can carry one, concealed or open.

Open carry is problematic, and I'd much rather sacrifice it in exchange for concealed carry. Open: bad guys know who's got what. Also, it'd be a buffet for bad guys capable of stripping a gun off of somebody. Open protects the carrier. Concealed protects everyone.

[breadbox]

^ word

I think it is about time for me to start dealing in firearms. Anyone know if I can own a Styer Scout Tactical in VA?

[HashiriyaS14]

^ word

I think it is about time for me to start dealing in firearms. Anyone know if I can own a Styer Scout Tactical in VA?

Isn't it just a bolt-action rifle? Why wouldn't you be able to own a Steyr Scout?

Hell, I know a guy in VA who owns a minigun.....

[480sx]

Iv got a nice collection.. Russian Kalashnikov, AR-15(decked the fvk out..), 22-250(cannon), 30'o 6, and a hand full of others. Couple glocks, a tricked out 45, few 22 pistols, two micro pistols, 3 Lugers.. Some real nice collectors pieces too.

Im tryen to talk my dad into getting a 3rd gen night vision scope for our AR.. We have a Coyote problem..

FYI, yes.. You can own that weapon.
Modified by 480sx at 6:12 AM 3/7/2009

[breadbox]

I don't know much about guns. I've shot a 22 at boy scout camp and play paintball, I am not a gunman.

I just was obsessed with Scoutz Knivez for a while and wanted one for a while, I wasn't sure if you were able to own military weaponry.

[Cold_Zero]

Hell, I know a guy in VA who owns a minigun.....

I met a guy at Knob Creek that owns miniguns in Bowie MD.

[breadbox]

My friends told me they entered a drawing for a Browning .50cal a while back, didn't win, but still.

It was just a local gun shop they buy their ammo from.

[themadscientist]

Sexy.



Is it hippie season yet?

I got my pot-scented munchie decoys and liberal literature to wipe my butt while I wait ready to go.

"guns kill people"

GOOD, if I point it at someone and pull the trigger it better well kill em or I want a refund!

[Looneybomber]

I haven't read any of the posts in this thread yet (at work and pressed for time) but here's my thought.

This whole premise of banning semi-automatic rifles (assault rifles) in the US to prevent drug cartels in Mexico from attaining fully-automatic machine guns and grenades is absurd! We’re not selling M-60’s and RPG’s to US citizens at gun shows, so the banning of a semi-automatic rifle will not have any effect on keeping RPG’s out of the cartel’s hands. And our government says we’re doing this to help out the Mexican officials, but what did they do when they purposed the legalization of drug use (including cocaine and heroin) in Mexico back in 2006 against the US’ recommendation? Yet now they’re having a drug trafficking problem and want to US government to de-arm the US citizens of their personal defense tools in order to decrease the amount of machine guns and grenades being used in fire fights? Ridiculous. I think there’s an ulterior motive that’s being covered up by an illegitimate excuse to slowly chip away at our constitutional rights.

[themadscientist]

If you keep using logical thought you are never going to be a good libbie man. Cmon man, hugs not guns.

[SullivanRacing06]

Guns hurt our children, and innocent lives. Obama is working towards protecting our kids from the savagery of guns.

WOW! so if a armed robber breaks into your house, do u want to be able to fight back with a fire arm? or get shot holding your baseball bat of pocket knife? hope you werent being serious!

[szh]

who is Robert Heinlein?

You are joking, right?

Z

[breadbox]

After attacks, Europe hurries to tighten gun laws

MATTI HUUHTANENAssociated PressMarch 11, 2009

HELSINKI – Several European countries have restricted gun laws in the wake of school massacres, gang violence and other gun-related crimes:

_Finland announced plans Wednesday to impose stricter restrictions on firearms, including raising the minimum age for handgun ownership from 15 to 20. The proposal was prompted by two school massacres within a year in which lone gunmen opened fire on classmates and teachers.

_Germany, where a gunman killed at least 11 people Wednesday, raised the legal age for owning recreational firearms from 18 to 21 following a 2002 shooting in Erfurt that killed 16 people, including 12 teachers.

_Belgian lawmakers passed strict new gun control laws in 2006 in reaction to the racially motivated shooting deaths of a toddler and her black baby sitter in Antwerp.

_Swiss citizens are demanding a referendum aimed at confining army weapons to military compounds and banning private purchases of pump-action rifles and automatic weapons — following a spate of suicides and homicides.

_The Portuguese Parliament is currently discussing a government proposal to tighten gun laws, including denying bail to anyone suspected of a gun crime.

In addition, some U.S. states have recently tightened gun laws as well:

• Colorado, a year after the 1999 Columbine High School shootings, made it a felony to buy a firearm for another person who should know the transaction is illegal, barred anyone from giving a firearm to a juvenile without the consent of the parents; made it illegal for a person not to try to prevent a juvenile from committing a gun crime; and increased the penalty for possession of a weapon by a felon.

But three years later, the state expanded gun rights instead, by requiring sheriffs to issue gun permits to people who pass a criminal background check, prohibiting local governments from making gun laws more restrictive than the state's, and abolishing local registries of gun owners.

• In Virginia, where a student killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007 before committing suicide April 16, 2007, the governor signed an executive order requiring that anyone ordered by a court to get mental health treatment be added to a database of people barred from buying guns.

[themadscientist]

I preface this with my opinions on guns, I like guns. I don't think average citizens need fully automatic weapons but semiautomatic is fine with me. If you don't understand the difference GTFO you are not equipped to discuss this topic.

After attacks, Europe hurries to tighten gun laws

MATTI HUUHTANENAssociated PressMarch 11, 2009

HELSINKI – Several European countries have restricted gun laws in the wake of school massacres, gang violence and other gun-related crimes:

_Finland announced plans Wednesday to impose stricter restrictions on firearms, including raising the minimum age for handgun ownership from 15 to 20. The proposal was prompted by two school massacres within a year in which lone gunmen opened fire on classmates and teachers.

Gun ownership should be reserved for adults, I agree with this.

_Germany, where a gunman killed at least 11 people Wednesday, raised the legal age for owning recreational firearms from 18 to 21 following a 2002 shooting in Erfurt that killed 16 people, including 12 teachers.

Same thing here

_Belgian lawmakers passed strict new gun control laws in 2006 in reaction to the racially motivated shooting deaths of a toddler and her black baby sitter in Antwerp.

Pass laws based on violence, not specific types of violence, hate comes in every color.

_Swiss citizens are demanding a referendum aimed at confining army weapons to military compounds and banning private purchases of pump-action rifles and automatic weapons — following a spate of suicides and homicides.

I can agree with that. By pump action i think they are talking about shotguns? That is excessive.

_The Portuguese Parliament is currently discussing a government proposal to tighten gun laws, including denying bail to anyone suspected of a gun crime.

100% behind that, only punishes criminals, good stuff.

In addition, some U.S. states have recently tightened gun laws as well:

• Colorado, a year after the 1999 Columbine High School shootings, made it a felony to buy a firearm for another person who should know the transaction is illegal, barred anyone from giving a firearm to a juvenile without the consent of the parents; made it illegal for a person not to try to prevent a juvenile from committing a gun crime; and increased the penalty for possession of a weapon by a felon.

Reactionary to be sure but a good piece of legislation.

But three years later, the state expanded gun rights instead, by requiring sheriffs to issue gun permits to people who pass a criminal background check, prohibiting local governments from making gun laws more restrictive than the state's, and abolishing local registries of gun owners.

State trumps local, don't like it vote. I don't want to see registries of gun owners, a police state could use it it to target gun owners in a power grab.

In Virginia, where a student killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007 before committing suicide April 16, 2007, the governor signed an executive order requiring that anyone ordered by a court to get mental health treatment be added to a database of people barred from buying guns.

As a Virginian and not someone who voted for Tim Kaine, I still agree with this and give him the credit.

[HashiriyaS14]

I don't know much about guns. I've shot a 22 at boy scout camp and play paintball, I am not a gunman.

I just was obsessed with Scoutz Knivez for a while and wanted one for a while, I wasn't sure if you were able to own military weaponry.

The Steyr Scout is a very nice, if expensive, rifle. I got to shoot one back when it was first released.

[Cold_Zero]

After attacks, Europe hurries to tighten gun laws

_Swiss citizens are demanding a referendum aimed at confining army weapons to military compounds and banning private purchases of pump-action rifles and automatic weapons — following a spate of suicides and homicides.

It should be noted that Switzerland has some +600k fully automatic weapons issued to its Citizen Soldiers that they take home with a box of ammunition. The conventional thought was to issue their soldiers enough ammo to get to their duty station where they would report and load up. They may have clamped down on the ammo part in recent years. The weapons is typically kept in your residence until you are discharged from the military, which can be up into your 60's. Some soldiers even have the ability to purchase the weapon after their service. I know that this was the case with the K31 and may not do it with the newer (full auto) weapons.

It is also not uncommon to see men with their SIGs strapped to their back in the train station or in a store going to and from drill. No one freaks out or calls the cops. Better yet, you would think with a proliferation of fully automatic weapons in the homes of these soldiers that the Swiss Cantons would be the wild wild west. They are not. The referendum listed above will probably not pass. They (anti gun folks) have been pushing this for years now and it never seems to pass. I guess the Swiss love their guns and do it in a responsible manner.