GTP vs. talon tsi awd

Post by **iliketocrash** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

I just watched a very interesting race tonight.. An automatic Grand Am GTP vs a 1st gen Talon TSI AWD, also an automatic and both bone stock. I figured the GTP would win, i mean its a super charged v6 vs a lil 4cyl turbo charged auto... but no. The talon hands down beat the GTP by at least 2 full car lengths. I have new respect for auto DSMs. I know this has nothing to do with nissans but it was still and very interesting and informative experience.

Post by **GEO** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

HAHAHAHA.... nice'd

Post by **Mr1der** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

the talon is lighter with the awd, so I bet it got a killer launch, I think the GP may push closer to my car in weight.

bet it's more comfortable to ride in than the DSM but man I'd like to have a GSX or Tsi

Post by **krazy skwerel** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

Word word. I want a GSX for an autocross car. Neat little bastards.

Post by **Jesda** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

Umm, those cars arent even in the same class. Remember that the GTP is an old-school highway cruiser -- it weighs 3700lbs.

I'm not impressed by the talon in this particular instance.

Post by **cory2081** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

With a few mods, intake, smaller pulley, exhaust.....you'd be suprised what the GTP can do. My friend has one with these mods and we beat Mustangs all day long......even Cobras. It will smoke the tires from a light pretty hard. It's hard to beat a boosted GM 3.8, they are very strong!!

Post by **jEzTeR** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

Was it a Greand AM or Grand PRIX? I thought the GTP was only made in the Greand PRIX?

At any rate the 1st gen Talon's TSI's are known arround here for smoking all sorts of cars.I know of one that is modded to an inch of its life and rolls people(z06's,Supra,300zxTT,ect...) for $$ all the time.when he is not replacing driveshafts,transmitions, and such. LOL

Post by **Altiman94** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

I have a friend with a mid 12 second dsm, I also know a guy here who owns a mid 12 second GTP. I personally like the luxary of the gtp over the awd system of the tsi/gsx.

Post by **Mr1der** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

boosted T-Birds beat boosted gm's anyday....

much tougher motor, not that I know anything about the Grand Prix, but I'd put money on it that the Ford's tougher

and heavier! BOOYA!

Post by **cory2081** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

Sorry, the Ford 3.8 is much weaker. The crank is it's biggest weakness. The journals are offset. Sorry to say, but, the T-Bird SC is far slower than a GTP....and my GN would rip a T-Bird SC a new one!! But, I dont have that car anymore. I had a friend that had Super Coupe, it was always broken. Ford makes a good small block V8 though, my 99 GT ran 8.70 at 81 MPH in 1/8 stock. Never seen a super Chicken run those kind of numbers.

Post by **cory2081** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

Try running 20 PSI or more to that SC and see what happens......

Post by **Mr1der** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

probably a killer quarter mile time after I replaced the quickly blown factory head gaskets

I'm talking about the FWD Gm 3.8, or any FWD GM period, the damn GN is a scary bout oh so gorgeous car, and a turbo, it's a lot easier to mod than the sc'd cars. Going on GM's track record, I bet the GTP's transmission is a turd.

what's the stock boost output on the GTP?

Post by **iliketocrash** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

i know that DSM's are fast. My last car was a '94 GSX.. but i never thought a stock AUTOMATIC awd DSM could truely put up much of a fight whatever.

Post by **CaptainHenreh** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

You can hate GM all day long, but you still must hail to the flawless, zenlike execution of the Buick Grand National.

God, what I wouldn't give to have those days back. I thought Bob Lutz would bring that back. All he's given us so far (besides rumors and lies) is an engine that begs to be boosted and an waaaaay over priced F-Body.

But a rear-drive turbo 3.8 litre V6...or better yet, that elusive 4.3 Litre Turbo all wheel drive pickup...

What I wouldn't give, what I wouldn't give....

*shakes head in shame*

Lets just cross our fingers and pray for a Turbocharged All Wheel Drive Ecotec on the Vectra platform.

Y'know, something to piss on an SRT-4.

Post by **MrEous** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

Stock GTP = Best of Highway RacingStock 1st Gen TSI = Best for 1/4

Very different class...the GTP wouldn't have a problem outrunning a stock TSI on the highway, IMO.

Post by **Jesda** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

I'd definitely agree with that.

Post by **Megaseth** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

MrEous wrote:Stock GTP = Best of Highway RacingStock 1st Gen TSI = Best for 1/4

Very different class...the GTP wouldn't have a problem outrunning a stock TSI on the highway, IMO.

werd. off the line they arent too quick stock, but they are beasts on the highway when they get moving. some guy in an SLP modifed one tore me up a while back. i was going full throttle in 4th and he just breezed passed me. yesterday, i think it was a GTP, but he was trying to semi-race me on the highway. but i kep getting ahead of him and out driving the guy. he didnt know how to drive his car and it made a big difference.

Post by **Mr1der** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

the gn is good for drag and that's about it though, not a star handler...

Post by **Altiman94** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

Your bird is a piece, face it. A gtp would hand you some tail lights without much of a problem... Your probably an automatic so your car isn't gonna get off the line any faster than a fwd 3.8 sc anyways. Quit your arguing.

Post by **Altiman94** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

and actually, the gm transmission in the car shift's beautifully. Crisp and fast, Nothing compared to any ford I've driven. They are the laziest shifting automatics, take a 5.0 for example, soo sloppy. I would dooubt your car is any different.

Post by **Megaseth** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

the cruise-o-matic in my f-150 shifted just fine. it had a pretty nice stall speed too.

Post by **cory2081** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

Ugh, GTPs run 7 or 8 PSI stock. My friend's is running 11, but, that's about all you can safely run with that stock POS blower. If it had a turbo, like the older 3.8s had, you could run alot more and the car would be alot faster. My GN actually handled pretty well, I had a few upgrades in that department though. That car was H$!! on top end!! It would redline it OD with the TCC engaged with no problem and still wanting more!! I kicked a WS6's A$$ on the highway. He had a 150 shot of NOS and quite a few bolt ons. I gotta get this 240 goin!! "Good evening, thanks for calling ATI, how may I help you??"....."Yes, I would like to order a...." supercharger???? :P

Post by **Onizuka** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

GM 3.8 liter V-6 supercharged makes 260 hp, nissan 3.5 liter V-6 naturally aspirated makes 287hp, nuff said.

Post by **Mr1der** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

actually mine's a five speed(I think 9 out of the 10 quickest SC's are autos though), and by saying the transmission is a turd, I'm referring to the durability. All my experiences with front drive gm is that the transmission is the weakest point. From everything I've found, the ford 3.8 is actually very similar to the buick 3.8, the buick has the advantage of being turbo and way cheaper to get killer E.T.s.

and what are you basing your opinion of my car being a turd on just out of curiousity, other than the crappy 1/4 times, I've found nothing to laugh about in the car

Post by **cory2081** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

yeah, what RPM does the Nissan make all it's power?? Like 7 or more??? Please remember that AMERICAN cars are mostly push rod and have more torque than horsepower. Look at the torque ratings and you'll see that the GTP smokes the Nissan in that area.

Post by **cory2081** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

oh yeah.......nuff said

Post by **Megaseth** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

well, it also has a lot of torque cause its got a SC on it. the big amercian pushrods make lots of torque cause theyre mde to have low end power. and they have lots of stuff moving around.

Post by **skydragoness** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

cory2081 wrote:yeah, what RPM does the Nissan make all it's power?? Like 7 or more??? Please remember that AMERICAN cars are mostly push rod and have more torque than horsepower. Look at the torque ratings and you'll see that the GTP smokes the Nissan in that area.

the point jspec was trying to make was that nissan can tune a v6 to 287hp *without* any forced induction help. no matter what rpm it makes it's peak power at, it's still more than decent for a n/a car. this is called engineering ingenuity, or making the most out of what you have to put it more simply. i always liked the s2000, cause i think it's insane how much they got out of a 4cyl.

Post by **Mr1der** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

it's really good power for the displacement. Another good example is the Ford 2.4 in a lot the Midget cars that usually make 300-320hp. Most of the drivers that stepped up to NASCAR from those actually say it's a lot harder to drive. You just start to sacrifice drivability if you go too high with them though, that's why the supercharged cars are pretty popular now for the smoother application of power without usually sacrificing as much drivability.

does Nissan still make a SC'd Frontier? I think a 4x4 one would be a fun little truck...

Post by **cory2081** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:13 pm

the only way to get alot of horsepower out of a small engine is to rev it high. this has alot to do with valvetrain design and stroke. Americans do not engineer thier cars to rev high for the most part b/c Americans like torque, and torque is made at low RPMs.....as speed increases, torque decreases. That's the only point I was making. Just b/c American cars don't put out the HP ratings that Jap cars do, doesnt mean they are slower. My friend's GTP beat a 350Z already.....those things are weak!! There's a video on Kazaa of a GTP leaving a modified Maxima and a 350Z, the car has about the same few mods my friend has.

GTP vs. talon tsi awd

GTP vs. talon tsi awd

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