Grounding kit

[Sentientbydesign]

I don't mean to be rude, but I'd suggest that you brush up on your auto electronics and I think you'll answer a lot of your own questions.

The ECU gets sensor data from dozens of sensors throughout the car, but the ones that are most important to performance are those like knock sensors, oxygen sensors, Throttle Position Sensor, Intake Air Charge, Mass Air Flow... all of these determine how the ECU modifies the air/fuel ratio.

If should be very obvious, that clean electricity is pivotal for performance. That doesn't say that a grounding kit will magically make all of the sensors report accurate information, it just means that poor grounds can lead to voltage spike and noise both of which can detract from a car's optimal performance.

[dee_tymz_sl]

I don't mean to be rude, but I'd suggest that you brush up on your auto electronics and I think you'll answer a lot of your own questions...

I don't mean to be rude but I think your car electronics might need more work than anyone else... You're trying to convince yourself too hard that a grounding kit does so much more for your car when all it does it provide different path of ground as to prevent your car from becoming a big a** battery, and this grounding is already done when the car is being manufactured as everything is connected to the chassis which acts as the ground for your car.

1. It won't make your car become any faster... Solution = get a faster car or mod the sh*t out of the Versa for way more than what the darn thing is worth.2. Headlights shinning brighter... Solution = Buy HID projector headlights or something along those lines3. Better fuel economy... Solution = Drive with a lighter foot and take more economical routes... it will show on the odometer eventually as you learn to get it right

I can keep listing all the things you've mentioned and I can tell you your solution to each one but one thing I'm not able to help you with is the B.S. you're talking about when you say that a grounding kit does all these different things for your car... Stop being so naive- you could save some $$$ my friend...

[Bubs daddy]

You're not being rude. I'm actually a bit embarassed for you and anyone who believes in such fantasy. Who knows, maybe there's a crystal or magnet kit coming out next week to improve fuel mileage.

I'm being tongue in cheek when I ask questions on how extra grounding wires make your car go faster. It's almost rhetorical. Because I know and you know that your canyon like leap in logic has no basis in fact. None based on solid evidence. None based on unbiased testing and research.

And this plays into the hands of the young, naive car owner who wants to believe that it works. That will convince himself that "Wow, it does feel faster!"

But like that old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't."

Many of us who have been around the block and around cars long enough know what are meaningful, tested, proven modifications and what are, well...mule muffins and absolute bunk.

Grounding a couple extra wires will NOT make your O2 sensor sense better than it does now. If the car has a working, proper ground, that's all that is needed. If it were that simple, the wire that is connected to the O2 sensor or any other electronic part could be of increased gauge. Every connection would be gold plated.

But we know that the law of diminishing returns proves that it's not necessary. Shooting a mosquito with a .44 doesn't kill it any better than a swat of the hand. In fact, it's a waste of time, effort and ammo.

Grounding kits are a waste of money and absolute overkill. They're not necessary and have shown no verifiable increase in hp or tq.

If you can convince someone to buy a grounding kit claiming that it will make their car faster, then I want to sell this person a pet rock because they've proven that they'll buy anything.


Modified by Bubs daddy at 1:12 AM 6/18/2009

[WORKS89]

I just want to point out the fact that Grounding kit have already been proven to work. Not on all cars, but they do work on a lot of cars. It all depends on the quality of the ground from the factory.

[Sentientbydesign]

I just want to point out the fact that Grounding kit have already been proven to work. Not on all cars, but they do work on a lot of cars. It all depends on the quality of the ground from the factory.

Thank you! This is what I've been trying to say for the past 5 posts.

[marlin29311]

I'll definatly vouch for SBD on the grounding kits - they've definatly increased my gas mileage, as well as improve some of the electrical systems in my car - any of the other altima guys that bought them will concurr, as well the Z, G and others.

I don't think anyone is saying that you're going to gain 25hp from installing the kits...but lets throw some fuel on this fire with someone that got a 9hp dyno increase from installing a grounding kit.

http://www.caraudiomag.com/tes....html

That's hard evidence.

Again, I feel like some are missing the point - not every car is going to react the same way to the decreased elecrical resistance provided from additional grounding. As Nate said, it doesn't look like the Versa benefits that much...other cars do.

[Bubs daddy]

LOL. And there are "proven results" and testimony by Enzyte users for "natural male enhancement."

Let's see...reading the article...amazing! Uh oh, what's this? The "sponsored links" on this site include, surprise! Two sites to buy grounding kits and one selling hi tech grounding software.

Interesting. I searched and found a couple of articles written very similarly. It's almost as if it were by the same writer! Same sponsored links. And it's made by the exact same company who happened to "call" up the tech writers and talk about this amazing product!

And the article was written by...um, didn't say. Just a "staff" writer.

Oh, but "horsepower gains will vary per the vehicle." Aw. That nasty disclaimer again.

I have to get in on this. Man, if it's that easy to persuade naive and impressionable car guys out of $100-$200 I have to start making some. Nah, too many kits already available.

I'll have muffler bearing kits available soon...just getting the website ready.

I'm sure they MAY help ground an older car's electrical system (if there's corrosion, poorly grounded) so there COULD be a benefit of reduced static, noise less dimming, brighter headlights, starter contact etc. I have already stated this.

Fuel mileage gains? You would think that with auto manufacturers constantly researching the smallest ways to eek out extra mpg this would be a simple fix from the factory. An epiphany. All those PhD's and engineers and not one of them figured out all it takes to get better mileage is to add some more grounding wires.

Beats my solution of putting some Sedona red rock in the tank.

For $20, you may want to throw a ground kit on your car. I guess it can't hurt. For $100 or more? Hey, it's your money.
Modified by Bubs daddy at 6:09 PM 6/18/2009

[Sentientbydesign]

I'm only half way to my Bachelor's and life (child, work, wife, businesses...etc.) is making that a slow process.

However, I do/have worked with many graduates (Masters, PhD) and I have to say that a large majority of them are complete idiots. As are many senior managers.

I suggest you pick up the June issue of Wired magazine and read up on detroit and how auto manufacturers work. The way the engineering works is laughable and you see small start-ups whipping up technology that the auto manufacturers never had a clue about.

There are other sites with dyno comparisons of before and after, but I won't post them because you'll find a reason to knock those down too. Kind of troll-like don't ya think?

[Bubs daddy]

Man, you don't have to tell me. I've worked with them. And many of them never get out of college and keep teaching their malarky to impressionable young college students. A lot of that is political and social malarky, mostly

Still, wouldn't someone have discovered such a simple modification? If it works, why then don't the manufacturers just add grounding wires to all their cars to increase gas mileage? I would think they would pay handsomely for the information.

As far as startups, oh, the technology is there. It's taking that technology and putting it in a car that sells for $20k is the conundrum. Toyota still sells the Prius at a loss and that's pretty mainstream. You can't sell an electric car for $100K no matter how much high tech it has.

I've been here for 2.5 years so that would eliminate me as a troll. The original poster asked for opinions about this product. I'm giving mine.

Many have asked opinions on a number of products and I haven't responded. There are many products and accessories advertised here that are good products.

This is not personal. I have nothing against you as a person. I just believe this product will not do what it claims to do. I believe the claims to be exaggerated, misleading, and this modification to be unnecessary.

[Sentientbydesign]

Dippled underbodies would improve fuel economy and high speed stability, but you only see them on "supercars".

Small displacement, high compression, turbocharged engines with alcohol injection and an electronically controlled intake/exhaust paths would create super fuel efficient cars with "balls-on-demand".

Haven't seen any of those lying around, have you?

My point in all of this is this: Don't knock it until you try it and if it doesn't work on your Versa, accept that the thousands of other car owners who have bought kits and love them (not all from me, but the G/Z/FX kits all similar in design except Stillen *shakes head*) are not all suffering from placebo effect.

[Ogden]

Still, wouldn't someone have discovered such a simple modification? If it works, why then don't the manufacturers just add grounding wires to all their cars to increase gas mileage? I would think they would pay handsomely for the information.

So, this whole topic came up on another car forum that I frequent a while back. I'll have to check on the final result, I think it was favorable to the groundign kit, but the answer that was suggested for the question above is that it's a simple PITA to run all of the ground wires for the best grounding, so they do the minimum, and get sufficient grounding. It's a lot easier to run a couple of short lines to a chassis ground somewhere than to run lines to the heads, the alterantor, throttlebody, various sensor packs, etc (this is what I recall from the other forum). It's a cost-benefit when they are assembling the car and also for repair work.

Most of the plusses that I've heard run along the lines of what I've read here, though no one claimed any real horsepower gain. Just a smoother running car, sometimes with better gas milage and better performance of electrical components which were assumed to include the ECU.

Someone also claimed (unverified by me) that if you look around a modern Honda engine bay, you'll see alot more grounding that what you see on most other cars.

[Sentientbydesign]

So, this whole topic came up on another car forum that I frequent a while back. I'll have to check on the final result, I think it was favorable to the groundign kit, but the answer that was suggested for the question above is that it's a simple PITA to run all of the ground wires for the best grounding, so they do the minimum, and get sufficient grounding. It's a lot easier to run a couple of short lines to a chassis ground somewhere than to run lines to the heads, the alterantor, throttlebody, various sensor packs, etc (this is what I recall from the other forum). It's a cost-benefit when they are assembling the car and also for repair work.

Most of the plusses that I've heard run along the lines of what I've read here, though no one claimed any real horsepower gain. Just a smoother running car, sometimes with better gas milage and better performance of electrical components which were assumed to include the ECU.

Very good points.

Also, saving a few hundred thousand a year by not saving $X per car for materials and $X amount of time and robotic labor to install the wires probably makes investors happy.

Someone also claimed (unverified by me) that if you look around a modern Honda engine bay, you'll see alot more grounding that what you see on most other cars.

This was the same on a Volvo that I wired up for a buddy (he insisted). I looked under the hood and was amazed at how well the grounds were situated. I think we ended up adding 3 wires just for kicks.

[morgan]

I've enjoyed the discussion.

I thought it was interesting though, that no one brought up that the engine absorbs (as a ground) the current and voltage of the ignition system every time a spark fires. I don't know what kind of affect this has on the sensors if any (because of the low amperage), but it is worth at least a small consideration during a brain storming or opinion thread.

Just my loose connection of dots laid down by the clever arguments above.

Who knows what a well insulated ground for the engine might result in? I can only speculate.
Modified by morgan at 9:15 PM 6/23/2009