Great news from The Dragon!

[MaximA32]

Tennessee banning commercial vehicles over 30 feet on The Tail of the Dragon in Blout County!

http://jalopnik.com/big-rigs-banned-fro ... 1667428609

[BusyBadger]

I knew this was coming just didn't expect it to come so soon. I was surprised when I heard it mentioned earlier in the week on local tv & radio but didn't think about posting it since no one except the locals (and formerly, commercial drivers) use it. I'll bring it up again when the 2015 ZDAYZ & NICO's TotD draw near.

Here's the official announcement from TDOT

[Dattebayo]

Of course! It's a safety issue not related to the folks who shred the corners. In fact, it should extend to non-commercial vehicles as well. A 30-foot long vehicle WILL encroach on the other lane in the tight outside corners.

[float_6969]

Aren't most flat bed tow trucks are over 30ft? You would have some real problems if flatbed tow trucks weren't allowed up there...

[Dattebayo]

You can tow using dollies, ya know...

[BusyBadger]

Aren't most flat bed tow trucks are over 30ft? You would have some real problems if flatbed tow trucks weren't allowed up there...

There may be some provision where tow trucks may be allowed in 129 to remove disabled vehicles. I imagine even if there isn't that once THP gets involved in an incident that it'd be fine anyway.

[nissangirl74]

There may be some provision where tow trucks may be allowed in 129 to remove disabled vehicles. I imagine even if there isn't that once THP gets involved in an incident that it'd be fine anyway.

THP would probably have all traffic blocked both ways to the site of the wreck so it wouldn't be as much of an issue.

[Bubba1]

Aren't most flat bed tow trucks are over 30ft? You would have some real problems if flatbed tow trucks weren't allowed up there...

Correct, they are, but I'm willing to bet they'd be exempt.

[Bubba1]

You can tow using dollies, ya know...

Unlike flatbeds, Dollies don't normally have winches to pull cars out when they go off road.

[float_6969]

And if the car is wrecked badly enough, a towing dolly may not work.

[Dattebayo]

I just think you're overcomplicating things. There's plenty of ways to get something out a ditch without using a flatbed.

[float_6969]

You're probably right. Overcomplicating things is one of my many bad habits, LOL

[Bubba1]

I just think you're overcomplicating things. There's plenty of ways to get something out a ditch without using a flatbed.

You're right, there are other ways. But when dealing with recoveries, a lotta tow companies prefer flatbeds, which offer more flexibility for serious wrecks. What you suggest restricts what equipment a tow company could use to respond to a call on that specific road, thereby making things more complicated than necessary. that's why I think tow company vehicles will be exempt from the new rule.


< flatbed owner

[Dattebayo]

I guess you guys can't really see what I'm getting at huh...

[Bubba1]

I guess you guys can't really see what I'm getting at huh...

Could be. Or vice versa.

[float_6969]

What I'm seeing is that this;

isn't leaving on a tow dolly. I don't see how anything but a flatbed is removing this.

I suppose this would work in a pinch

[flohtingPoint]

You know somewhere else that semi's with trailers and such are not allowed? It's called a "race track". Lived on the east coast from '08 to Oct of this year, and never once even thought about going The Dragon. Way better places to go than some public road =)

[RicerX]

[Bubba1]

You know somewhere else that semi's with trailers and such are not allowed? It's called a "race track". Lived on the east coast from '08 to Oct of this year, and never once even thought about going The Dragon. Way better places to go than some public road =)

Well, I've lived in the northeast all my life, and driving the TOTD is absolutely on my bucket list. What race track (in THIS country) has over 300 turns in 11 miles. That's something special. NICO even holds a fun annual event there. The only thing that's kept me away thus far is that the Dragon events have been held over Labor Day Weekend, which is tough for me. But I'm looking forward to getting down there eventually.


As info, I once took a lap around Summit Pt. Shenandoah in my flatbed. It was a lotta fun, though I decided against attempting the banked carousel turn with it

[jekl]

Yeah...I've been to the TOTD a couple of times and it's awesome! It's not just the fact that it has over 300 turns in 11 miles, but the scenery is ridiculous and meeting new people who have a passion for cars just makes for an unforgettable time. I encourage everyone to check it out at least once in their lifetime!

[Dattebayo]

I guess you guys can't really see what I'm getting at huh...

Could be. Or vice versa.

NO, I see yours, but I expect you'll understand if I suggest then that any vehicle that long must have to stop at every major wide turn and get two flaggers out on the pavement to make sure no one is speeding around the bends so you don't cause another accident requiring said use of proposed illegal mode of transport. Otherwise the ban doesn't make any damn sense at all.

[audtatious]

You know somewhere else that semi's with trailers and such are not allowed? It's called a "race track". Lived on the east coast from '08 to Oct of this year, and never once even thought about going The Dragon. Way better places to go than some public road =)

Can we please have some more life altering posts? We all appreciate your ultra intelligence level.

Congrats on the move to the west coast, only they can help control your ego

[Bubba1]

NO, I see yours, but I expect you'll understand if I suggest then that any vehicle that long must have to stop at every major wide turn and get two flaggers out on the pavement to make sure no one is speeding around the bends so you don't cause another accident requiring said use of proposed illegal mode of transport. Otherwise the ban doesn't make any damn sense at all.

Ok, I understand your point better now. I still disagree with you. I think you're reading the law a bit too literally. You seem to be lumping emergency and recovery vehicles with everything else. Doesn't work that way. If you are in a car flipped over on fire blocking the road, time is important. Do you honestly think the police are gonna ticket or prevent a 40 'fire truck, or a 35' flatbed from assisting because they're a little too long? I'd be willing to bet you or (more accurately) your surviving kin, would be on the phone with lawyers to sue everyone when they learn you died because the nearest "approved" vehicle to operate on that road is an hour away, and vehicles that might have saved you were 10 minutes away but were not permitted to be used because they were an arm length too long "per regulation". I do understand the need for the restrictions, as I cant imagine a long nosed double sleeper Peterbilt hauling a 53'x102 trailer running on that road without creating hazards. And I do recognize that most flatbeds are 30'+ have large turning radii. But there are obviously exceptions to the rule.

I personally don't see the new law as a big deal, as there are restrictions everywhere you go with trucks. For example, to cross the Delaware river from NJ to PA near my home, there are 5 bridges. I can only legally use two of them with my flatbed. I alter my route slightly to go over one of the legal ones, so I don't risk a big fine. Doesn't bother me at all. It's just the way it is.

[Dattebayo]

Just in case it isn't too clear to anyone, this is why the ban is happening:


See, when you take a hard turn in a truck, the rear axle isn't going to follow the track of the front axle. With a semi it's bad (as shown in the pictures), but in a single-piece body like a flatbed, the track for the rear axle is even wider.
Obviously, on right turns this won't be a big problem unless you've got something on the side of the road. But on a left turn it will encroach on the other lane.
ON a really tight left turn it could block as much as half or even the whole lane, which is why I mentioned the flaggers before.

Larger single-piece body vehicles like big fire-engines have a rear steering wheel to counteract said problem, so they shouldn't cause a problem, but they'd really be the only ones that wouldn't.

Anyway, just for the purpose of showing my thoughts here. Thanks Joel.

[Bubba1]

Just in case it isn't too clear to anyone, this is why the ban is happening:


See, when you take a hard turn in a truck, the rear axle isn't going to follow the track of the front axle.
Obviously, on right turns this won't be a big problem unless you've got something on the side of the rod. But on a left turn it will encroach on the other lane.
ON a really tight left turn it could block as much as half or even the whole lane, which is why I mentioned the flaggers before.

Anyway, just for the purpose of showing my thoughts here. Thanks Joel.

Your welcome, Dave. But your explanation/diagram of the ban for tractors pulling semi-trailers on windy roads are not what's being questioned. Float and I are disagreeing with your extending your explanation to include flatbed trucks (like the one pictured at left under my name), We also disagree with your opinion to limit TOTD tow company options to dollies. That's because because you seem to believe dollies make towing less complicated. We're trying to tell you that in reality, its just the opposite. Flatbeds, especially the hydraulic bed ones are more versatile, and load more quickly/easily than dollies. And unlike dollies, flabeds can handle cars that can't roll and come equipped with winches, which make them ideal for TOTD crash calls, many of which are severe. And despite being more than 30' long and unlike tractor trailers, flatbeds can also navigate TOTD turns without disrupting oncoming traffic, thereby making flaggers unnecessary for them. That's why tow companies use flatbeds instead of dollies. And as a result, they are probably exempt from the ban. We can make the same argument for fire/rescue vehickes. Most 2 axle fire engines exceed 30' long, and I'll wager they're exempt from the ban too. I hope that makes a little more sense.

[Dattebayo]

despite being more than 30' long and unlike tractor trailers, flatbeds can also navigate TOTD turns without disrupting oncoming traffic, thereby making flaggers unnecessary for them. That's why tow companies use flatbeds instead of dollies.

SO, you are saying that this isn't true then?

in a single-piece body like a flatbed, the track for the rear axle is even wider.

[float_6969]

Ok, your diagram makes sense and is exactly the reason semi tractor trailers shouldn't be allowed on the TOTD. I think we all agree on that. But you went on to say that a single frame vehicle with duals has a WORSE issue than a semi, or did I misunderstand? If that's what you're saying, I would like to see a similar diagram to what you posted above demonstrating what you're saying.

[Dattebayo]

Here's one from a 30' single-body truck.



What I meant was a semi should have a shorter turn radius compared to a single-body truck of the same length.

[float_6969]

The turn radius for a semi will be shorter because its hinged, but will encroach into oncoming traffic more, while a single frame vehicle will encroach into the oncoming lane less because it's not hinged, but will have a greater turning circle. I've only driven it once, but I don't recall any hairpin turns that were so tight a flatbed couldn't traverse them without impededing oncoming traffic.

[flohtingPoint]

You know somewhere else that semi's with trailers and such are not allowed? It's called a "race track". Lived on the east coast from '08 to Oct of this year, and never once even thought about going The Dragon. Way better places to go than some public road =)

Can we please have some more life altering posts? We all appreciate your ultra intelligence level.

Congrats on the move to the west coast, only they can help control your ego

So because I'm not self centered and I don't think that public roads are there for me to go driving like an ***hole, and I care about the safety of my fellow motorists, that means I have an ego problem? Yea, that makes a ton of sense...

Driving like a d!ck on public roads is some high school s***. I seriously hope we're all adult enough to see that...