Great Info to read

[AZhitman]

Driving is not a right. It is a privilege.

The argument "he should have been doing REAL police work" is old and played out (and weak). He's doing as directed, but then again, since you know so much about law enforcement you probably already knew that. :rolleyes

I'd LOVE to have pulled you over.

p.s. Being pulled over isn't a violation of your "rights" (Con Law 101 would do you some good). And Jon (slw240sx) said it better than I EVER could have.

p.p.s. You live in Canada - You don't HAVE rights.

[yashin]

Ok. So let the cops do whatever they want. Yeah that's a great plan. Can't see why that could go bad.

He should have been doing real work. Please I see cops let a million other crimes slide, jaywalking, littering, etc. are all illegal, but nobody ever gives a ticket for those, but, a non CARB header, good lord that could never be allowed, our society would just come apart if he kept his header on his car.

If cops show me respect, they'll get the same. Simple as that.

Being pulled over for no reason whatsoever IS a violation of my rights. Wanna see?

Section 9 Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.

Arbitrary detainment does inlcude pulling me over for no reason.

Yes we do have rights and Canada, why you would say this is odd.

But I guess it's easy for you to side with the police. You are a middle aged white male. You probably never get pulled over for no reason. But I am a 21 year old coloured male, therefor I am always guilty of having done something wrong.

I will say it again, everytime you let a cop get away with anything, you are doing a disservice to society. Why do you think there are so many corrupt cops?

[SmithSR]

One cannot argue, with another's self-pity.

[yashin]

You know what SmithSR. Instead of making stupid little comments, why don't you try and explain something.

[AZhitman]

I will say it again, everytime you let a cop get away with anything, you are doing a disservice to society.

So your lipping off to them is showing them you're not gonna "let them get away with something"? How's that? You don't have the authority to consequence anyone, and they're cvertainly not afraid of your rude yapping. Yep, you're "making a difference". :rolleyes

I think every time YOU do that, you do a disservice to every other non-white motorist on the road. They should blame YOU for any disrespect THEY are shown.

Your generalizations are weak:

"I see cops let a million other crimes slide". No you don't. And if you do, maybe you should join the force and make a difference.

"Nobody ever gives a ticket for those things". Really? Ever? In the entire history of Canada? Dang - Bet that place is a mess with people just walking in the streets and throwing garbage everywhere...

"He should have been doing real work." He's doing what his commanding offficer told him to do - I could say the same about some aspect of your job.

"I am always guilty of having done something wrong." I understand this is sarcasm, but maybe you WERE doing something you shouldn't have been - You sound paranoid.

"Why do you think there are so many corrupt cops?" Do you have statistics to back this up? Sounds like too much TV.

"You are a middle aged white male." Actually, I'm a 33 year old male of Middle Eastern descent - wrong again.

"You probably never get pulled over for no reason." Nope - Every time I drive, I'm probably guilty of something. And so are you, unless you drive like my mama, in which case you're IN THE WAY.

[SmithSR]

There is no explaining. As soon as you stop assuming I hadn't read your post and responded in the manner most fitting, then maybe my previous post is explanation enough.

Honestly I don't think anybody can explain anything to you, after your comment about your age and skin tone. I'm sad for you, because you feel your age and skin tone is an appropriate scapegoat, allowing you to spew hatred and/or contempt of LE.

Self-pity is a cancer. Look what it has done for your arguement. I no longer can argue or debate with you, because who's to say you don't think I'm dealt an easier hand because I'm white?

Playing the race card corrupts discussion. There can be no further meaningful dialogue because you feel you're wronged based on your age, and skin tone.

How can anybody prove you wrong? You'll always be convinced of it, until you decide to change.

That is the logical reason why I said, in plain terms, that one cannot argue, with another's self-pity.

[yashin]

So taking their crap will make things better? Hell no. I've given them lip and complained to the police. Still nothing happens. Because other people are too afraid to do what I've done.

Yes, I do see cops let other crimes slide. I've seen littering, jaywalking (on a daily basis), small marijuana possession, public drunkeness, and many other offences go uncharged.

No canada is not a mess.

I was doing absolutely nothing wrond. I was coming home from work. My car was stock. Not even an exhuast. It was 2am-ish. I was driving 70 kph in a 70kph street. I get pulled over. I ask him why, "Don't worry about it, I'll let you know", is his response.

Corrupt cops only on TV?

My city is becoming infested with bad cops.

http://primetimecrime.com/Rece...l.htm

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004...40419

http://www.queerday.com/archives/004303.html

http://www.mapinc.org/newscsdp/v04/n132/a10.html

All of these in the past year. Not to mention the extortion racket they were running a few years ago.

But I guess we should let all of this slide as well., because all cops are super duper people and can do no wrong, so we should do whatever they say whenever they say it.

I don't drive fast, mainly because I can't afford the insurance increase. I drive the limit and careully. My car is my lifeblood, for me no car= no job, no school. But I still get pulled over. Why?

[yashin]

Ok, you honestly don't beleive my age and skin colour don't have anything to do with it? Wow, you live in Candyland. Seriously. You honestly can tell me that cops are better than the other 99% of people in society how judge people on race and age? Please.

I get pulled over for no reason driving my moms expensive car. Yeah that has nothing to do with skin colour or age.

Black guy gets shot 40 times by white cops. Yeah that has nothing to do with skin colour.

[C-Kwik]

Personally, I think we should be blaming ourselves more than anything. What this all really comes down to is a lack of money. We always want lower taxes. But all these things we get, police protection, education, public services, etc, all cost money. Police budget cutbacks have been considerable while crime continues to be an issue. So they have to fund the department somehow. Who better to collect excess tax from than those who can appear to be bad people to the rest of society? It's a win-win for them. They look better for getting these "street racers" and collect much needed department funding at the same time. As far as murderers, rapists, burglers, etc, there's just no money in it. I myself have been harrassed many times. For the most part, I talk my way out of it. And it's been less of a problem with my current car since it doesn't really stand out, but it has happened. And as soon as they figure out that I know the laws they refer to and what they actually say(as opposed to what they try to tell you it says), they usually leave me alone. But noone should have to be required to know the laws that well to keep from being harrassed. A couple of years ago, they changed the exhaust noise law in this state twice due to this harrassment issue. Since they have a harder time with it now, they must look towards other means. And I'm sure their bosses are on them about this anyways. We need to pay more taxes. Plain and simple.

SmithSR, I respect comps for what they do. Putting on that uniform makes them a target, and to a large extent, they help keep bad guys off the street. However, I can't exactly blame people here, in FA or anywhere with having bad attitudes towards cops about this. Ultimately, it's totally hypocritical on both sides. Both sides are generalizing a group of people based on the poor actions of only a portion of the groups. I won't defend those that modify cars for street racing. And I won't defend cops for discriminating. But I will blame street racers and cops that harrass for both.

[C-Kwik]

Either you guys are really fast or I am really slow. SmithSR, my last response was to this post:

I've never, in my time spent browsing NICO, seen such a display of stupidity, arrogance, and ignorance.

Every time you people act this way, I take it personally, because good friends of mine serve local precincts. To read this garbage you post.. it's sad and pathetic.

How will you ever be able to interact in a world of laws and rules, if you hold such contempt for people in authority?

[yashin]

I don't hate all cops. Just those on power-trips. I have met nice cops, and was perfectly ok with them.

[AZhitman]

So taking their crap will make things better? Hell no. I've given them lip and complained to the police. Still nothing happens. Because other people are too afraid to do what I've done.

Maybe you should get REALLY serious and punch one of them. That'll show 'em you ain't playin!

Maybe they're all just picking on you now to see you get mad? Then they get back to the station and imitate you and they all laugh and eat donuts and....

Anyway, i hope things get better for you. Sounds like you might want to move to Phoenix, where 60% of the population is dark skinned, and the cops can't tell anyway, because we have TINTED WINDOWS (woo hoo!)

[SmithSR]

Ok, you honestly don't beleive my age ans skin colour don't have anything to do with it?

I don't, but you do.

That's why one cannot argue with another's self pity.

That pity is what motivates people to make assumptions about a cop's job, a cop's authority, and a cop's personal conduct.

[yashin]

Wow SmithSr, I'd really like to live where you live. Where everybody loves each other and lives together happily hand in hand in a world full of peace.

Cops stereotype just like every other human being on this planet.

So please explain to me how I get pulled over for no reason.

[yashin]

Right the police don't discriminate.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/17/racial030217

http://www.anishinabek.ca/uoi/ma_012704.htm

http://www.globeandmail.com/se...onal/

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/01/19/johnson040119

http://www.law-lib.utoronto.ca...9.htm

http://www.imdiversity.com/vil...g.asp

http://www.canstats.org/readmo...d=434

http://www.cdp-hrc.uottawa.ca/....html

http://www.geocities.com/Baja/....html

http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/c...01113

But no, racial profiling/ discrimination is just a myth.

[SmithSR]

Then move here.

I don't know why you're being pulled over. Add together your comments from page 1 about your race and age causing an unlucky circumstance, with your asking me to explain incidents that happen in another country, and you haven't left anybody much to discuss.

You've obviously already decided the motivation behind a cop pulling you over, and after the race card has been played, I'm politely going to refrain from posting further.

[C-Kwik]

Ok, you honestly don't beleive my age and skin colour don't have anything to do with it? Wow, you live in Candyland. Seriously. You honestly can tell me that cops are better than the other 99% of people in society how judge people on race and age? Please.

I get pulled over for no reason driving my moms expensive car. Yeah that has nothing to do with skin colour or age.

Black guy gets shot 40 times by white cops. Yeah that has nothing to do with skin colour.

Let's lose some of the reverse-ignorance. While race is an issue, it is not without good reason. Try looking at the bigger picture. Certainly, I've been pulled over because of racial profiling. I've been searched and so has my car. My background has been run. But how does a cop differentiate between the good people and the bad people? Every single time I've been pulled over under any pretense of racial profiling, once they found nothing or determined I wasn't a criminal, I was let go with little incident. And each of these times, I was in an area known for having a higher concentration of asian gangs. So who's to blame here? The cops? Or the Asian gansters that the cops are trying to get off the street? We sometimes have to compromise in life for the bigger picture.

There are certainly incidents that are uncalled for. And cops are not above the law in this matter. If they kill someone without proper justification or use unecessary force, they can be punished by the law as well. As far as your black guy who was shot 40 times, I'll bet most of the time, he probably had a gun too. And the times he didn't, well if he didn't reasonably appear to have a gun, or be some kind of an immediate threat, then the cop who shot him should go to jail.

Keep in mind that most cops will never have had to shoot a person. Only a small percentage will have killed a person in their entire careers. And most of the cops that do end up killing a person in the line of duty will feel really bad about it. regardless of if they are wrong or not. Cops are people. They have as much compassion as any other person in this world. Get a grip on reality.

In Alex's case(the guy who got the ticket), I'd claim that as harrassment. Alex actually called me not too long after this happened. He's quite an honest person and an overall good guy. I tend to take him at his word. A modified exhaust is hardly cause to determine there are illegal mods in the car. And that officer is still trying to use the old vehicle code(only a portion of it at that) to justify the exhaust ticket. And then turning around and using that to try and get at illegal mods that he has no psecific reason to believe is even on the car. So far, I haven't heard that drifting has been a problem on public roads like street racing. But the concern in law enforcement is growing. Insurance companies are being told about drifters in seminars and through the NICB, which indicates that law enforcement has it's eye on it. The area where Alex was ticketed has a high concentration of Asians(mostly Chinese) and there does seem to be a higher concentration of drifters living in that area. I see a lot of 240sx's out that way. There are actually a lot of modified cars in general out there. So it sounds like the cops are out there trying to put out a fire that isn't actually lit again by targetting an entire group. I don't know of many police agencies that would keep records of what cars are supposed to look like on hand.

All said and done, it really comes down to this. Stupid laws are for stupid people. If we could regulate ourselves, we would have no need for laws or cops. But we are just stupid people.

[yashin]

Right, cause when I cross an imaginary line the discrimination will stop.

Why should I have to move anyways? I've done nothing wrong.

Look I showed you racial discrimination exists and is used.

So myself, The Toronto Police Review Board, The Ontario Human Rights Comission, The CBC, The Toronto Star, all minorites, The University of Toronto, The University of Ottawa, and more all have shown that racial discrimination exists.

But you still don't think it does. So of course you must be right.

Want me to find some reports of discrimination local to you? It won't be hard.

I'm not saying that it was 100% race, but

Race+young +male+sporty car+late at night = I get pulled over. Throw into that mix when I'm driving my mom's more expensive car and it's clear.

Go ahead make a comment, I won't get offended. I want to see you explain this.

[Touchdown038]

For what it's worth, Yashin, I think you SHOULD move here. You'd love Western WA, it's beautiful when it's not raining.

[yashin]

Let's lose some of the reverse-ignorance. While race is an issue, it is not without good reason. Try looking at the bigger picture. Certainly, I've been pulled over because of racial profiling. I've been searched and so has my car. My background has been run. But how does a cop differentiate between the good people and the bad people? Every single time I've been pulled over under any pretense of racial profiling, once they found nothing or determined I wasn't a criminal, I was let go with little incident. And each of these times, I was in an area known for having a higher concentration of asian gangs. So who's to blame here? The cops? Or the Asian gansters that the cops are trying to get off the street? We sometimes have to compromise in life for the bigger picture.

This is wrong. Why should you be pulled over because other people committed a crime. You have done nothing.

Yes cops are normal people. But give a person the ability to do whatever they want, and they will abuse it.

How do they differentiate, it's called good police work.

Ever hear of unreasonable search and seizure?

By this train of though cops should be allowed to search your house with no warrant and on no grounds.

You guys may not care about your rights as a citizen, but you should.

[AZhitman]

Race+young +male+sporty car+late at night = I get pulled over. Throw into that mix when I'm driving my mom's more expensive car and it's clear.

Go ahead make a comment, I won't get offended. I want to see you explain this.

Good thing you weren't born handicapped. Some people have to work harder to make it in this world. Whoever told you life would be fair was a liar.

Tint your windows, and get over yourself.

I could show you a pile of studies that show non-whites are responsible for a disproportionate number of crimes, and that "profiling" actually works, but that would just make you angry. (NOTE: Not my opinion, but a subject I've studied extensively, also is the subject of my Master's thesis.)

No one here can explain why you get pulled over so much. I have a theory, but you won't like it, because you're convinced that is "for no reason".

You have 2 choices: Get over it, or take the bus.