Got pulled over. Cop gave me some advice.

[Loki]

So I got my wisdom teeth pulled out Monday night, and Tuesday I had a follow-up appointment. On my way I got stuck trying to turn left through an intersection (one that does not give green arrow for turning), and I got stuck waiting for a freaking parade of cars. It cleared up just in the for the red light. Next cycle, same thing. In this situation I always plant myself on the line at the front of the turning lane and wait for an opportunity to turn.

So I see just enough of a gap in the parade of idiots to try and shoot through and I took it. The yellow hits the second I get on the gas and the red light hit about 0.002 seconds later. Did I mention a cop car was in the turning lane right behind me as well? Whoop whoop, there go the lights, pulls me over. Same old, license and registration, blah blah.

Then the cop says to me, "What you should do in that situation is wait in the middle of the intersection for an opportunity to turn, or wait for the light to change and turn when the cars stop." I thought to myself, then I'd still be running the red since the yellow lasted all of the blink of an eye. I say out loud that I've always been taught to never enter an intersection unless you can see that you can leave it quickly and safely.

I've always thought I'm a pretty attentive and logical driver, and it really irks me when people sit their fat asses in the middle of the intersection waiting to turn. It irks me further to hear a cop supporting this behavior. What do you guys think?

tl;dr "Ran" a red light, cop says I should sit in the middle of the intersection waiting to turn rather than staying in the turning lane watching for the opportunity.

[DJ_B_Easy]

I wait my fat a** in the middle of the intersection, and I make every light.

Have to side with the Jakes on this one.

[dre1507]

if there's one car already waiting in the middle i'll tag along. if no opportunity arrives during green and yellow, we'll both ride the 2 or so seconds before the perpendicular traffic gets green. i've yet to see cops bug anyone about it.

[alms24sebring]

I hate that because when people on the opposite side you cant see around them especially if its a bigass SUV. That also causes accidents..

[skydragoness]

I never stick my neck out in a intersection like that. Scary. It almost always leads to accidents and the people that do it are out there well after the light turns red and then everyone has to wait for them to make their turn before they can go.

What is it with PA and their lack of left-protected green lights? I mean, they're not very common. Here in DE, if there isn't room for a left turn lane (like in the city of Wilmington) the traffic volume isn't too bad so that you can wait and make a left without too much trouble for the people behind you. More commonly they just program the lights so that cars that are in a single file have a protected left and go straight at the same time (and everyone else has a red and waits). Makes the most sense to me, they don't seem to do the latter in PA that much.

[Loki]

PA just doesn't care about drivers and as a result most PA drivers don't care about driving, which leads them to be very poor at it. Not to mention the only roads that ever seem to get repaved are those that coincide with some elected official's drive to the office. The majority of roads I travel on in Scranton don't even have any lines on them anymore after years of neglect.

[ADDirishboy]

Wait, there are actually people who don't wait inside the intersection to turn? That is pretty standard around here. Hell, we usually fit 2 cars out in the intersection.

[dre1507]

Same here ty. at some intersections, the red arrow for the left turning lane disappears and you're pretty much free to turn whenever you see an opportunity. some intersections don't get turning arrows. at those, you just turn when the chance arrives.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Waiting in the intersection causes more traffic... DON'T DO IT. Start going when you see a break in the cars coming at you. You accomplish the same goal with no loss of time and you don't cause other people to get pissed off at your dumbass stuck in the middle of the street.

[Loki]

Yeah, but the roads in Scottsdale are easily twice and three times as large as the roads here. Where you have three lanes of traffic on each side with ample room for turning lanes, we have just barely room for two lanes of traffic and a miniscule turning lane (if you're lucky). One SUV trying to turn pretty much blocks your entire view of the intersection. Not to mention, I see green turning arrows in Scottsdale everywhere. so I don't even think it's that big of a deal out there. When my gf was out there last, she actually asked me why the traffic lights had 5 lights on them, instead of just the 3 red/yellow/green. You have no idea how good you got it when it comes to roads out there.

[dre1507]

Scorched. actually, it doesn't. unless someone goes when there clearly wasn't an opportunity. as a matter of fact, if you stay at the line waiting for a break, you lose a lot of precious time to get to the middle of the intersection and then turn.

i used to do that, but often by the time i notice a break and is getting ready to go, someone in the oncoming lane decides to speed. so by the time i get to the middle, if i was to go out it'd probably cause an accident, or force the oncoming speeder to brake really hard, or cut it way too close for comfort.

Even if no one decided to speed up or whatever, sometimes the oncoming traffic is moving so fast that whatever break you get most often requires you to already be in the intersection to take advantage of it.

[Loki]

Scorched. actually, it doesn't. unless someone goes when there clearly wasn't an opportunity. as a matter of fact, if you stay at the line waiting for a break, you lose a lot of precious time to get to the middle of the intersection and then turn.

Not if you really look at the flow of traffic. Maybe it's a cultural difference, since this area is mostly poor old people driving busted old cars. No one really speed up suddenly, like ever. When I drive out here, I can spot an opportunity from the turning lane, and I'll enter the intersection at just the right time to take advantage of it. Drivers hear are usually pretty predictable when it comes to this sort of thing.

The only real "missed" opportunities I notice are when someone in the oncoming lane turns right (more often than not, a blinker is not used), but in those situations the person behind them typically speeds around them and closes the gap, or the person turning speeds up to the turn and then crawls through it.

[Dattebayo]

The only time waiting in the middle of the intersection is dangerous and a problem is when the people who are doing it are slow or inattentive.

There are a bunch of roads here that if you don't do it, you won't get to turn. Ever. People will just drive around you after a few turns of the light and do it in front of you.

[dre1507]

Loki, traffic here is very unpredictable. you'll have some random schmuck crawling well below the speed limit who decides to speed up as if making it his/her purpose in life to get through the intersection before you.

[skydragoness]

Scorched. actually, it doesn't. unless someone goes when there clearly wasn't an opportunity. as a matter of fact, if you stay at the line waiting for a break, you lose a lot of precious time to get to the middle of the intersection and then turn.

i used to do that, but often by the time i notice a break and is getting ready to go, someone in the oncoming lane decides to speed. so by the time i get to the middle, if i was to go out it'd probably cause an accident, or force the oncoming speeder to brake really hard, or cut it way too close for comfort.

Even if no one decided to speed up or whatever, sometimes the oncoming traffic is moving so fast that whatever break you get most often requires you to already be in the intersection to take advantage of it.

Pffff. I'm in first gear ready to gun it when I see a break...don't need to be in the middle of the intersection to read be able to read traffic.
That being said, I don't drive like I'm rushing to a hospital. If I miss the light then the protected left green will come back anyway (because I live in DE, ha ha).
I will adapt my driving to big cities in Philly or NYC because you do have to drive like an a** there or you will be crushed if you don't. Which is why I opt for public trans. :P

I love it when people moan about being "stuck" in DE traffic on their way south from Wilmington to Bear or wherever. It's NOTHING compared to Philly, NYC, or D.C. traffic and there are several side roads to take around some of the bottle neck areas.

[dre1507]

yea that may be, but did i mention that sometimes that break i see gets clogged by two or 3 cars that decided to slow down? by the time they pass, the only way you're getting through is if you were already in the middle of the intersection.

[Solar_Runner]

the cop is correct. if you're in the intersection when it turns red, you're golden. problem is, the azzhat other drivers waiting to go (waiting for the green) seem to forget and they sh1t green apples becasue of what you are doing. It's nearly a lose lose.

[Loki]

yea that may be, but did i mention that sometimes that break i see gets clogged by two or 3 cars that decided to slow down? by the time they pass, the only way you're getting through is if you were already in the middle of the intersection.

I would argue you didn't act soon enough. If I see a break, I start moving the car before the break ever gets to me, so that I can pass through right as it comes up. It would be the same break a middle-sitter would take, I just waited to enter until I saw an opportunity. if that break ends up closing, even if you were in the middle you'd miss it. That may not be the world's best explanation however....

[C-Kwik]

Generally, in most states, the law is written such that it is only illegal to enter the intersection after the light turns red. Being in the intersection already when the light turns red is usually not illegal. And back when driver training was still taught in high school, they used to teach people to wait in the intersections to make a left turn.

As for the officer in this case, I'll bet he pulled you over under the premise of a red light violation because he was annoyed that you weren't waiting in the middle of the intersection.

Waiting in the intersection causes more traffic... DON'T DO IT. Start going when you see a break in the cars coming at you. You accomplish the same goal with no loss of time and you don't cause other people to get pissed off at your dumbass stuck in the middle of the street.

Who gets stuck in the middle of an intersection when making a left? Even in a local city that has virtually no delay between a red light and the next green, people have no problem clearing the intersection before the cross traffic gets moving. The only time I've ever seen such a scenario was when an ambulance came through and the light changed during that process. But here's the kicker. Around here, by law, the person already in the intersection has the right of way. The cross traffic that started to go and prevented him from going was in the wrong.

As for traffic, I don't see how it would cause more traffic. In fact, in some intersections I've seen the only time you can complete a left is after the light turns yellow or green. Waiting at the limit line to turn would likely reduce the number of cars that can make it through when the light cycles. And if more cars are arriving at the intersection intending to turn left than the number of cars that can make a left each cycle, then traffic will back up. If this continues long enough, then the cars waiting to turn left may impede the through lane(s) causing additional traffic.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

I guess it's on a case by case basis. If you are caught out in the intersection with a red light for anymore than a second or two I think that's a pretty lame traffic mistake. I thought it was illegal to block intersections.

[Jesda]

The cop is wrong.

Left turns vary by state and municipality.

In Creve Coeur MO, they use a blinking yellow to indicate a left turn yield, and when that flashing yellow light turns red ONCOMING TRAFFIC IS STILL GREEN and if you use that as an opportunity to make a left, you will get t-boned and you will be 100% at fault.

In Chesterfield MO, they use a steady green to indicate a left turn yield, and when that green light turns yellow and then red, ONCOMING TRAFFIC STOPS.

These two towns border each other.

There is absolutely no universal rule for left turns, so to be safe (unless you know for sure how it works where you live) you ought to stay behind the line when making a left. And then there's the visibility issue when trying to see past trucks.

Cop was probably scrambling to find a reason to pull you over since you drive a 240 and you're always blasting the devil's music.

[dre1507]

yea that may be, but did i mention that sometimes that break i see gets clogged by two or 3 cars that decided to slow down? by the time they pass, the only way you're getting through is if you were already in the middle of the intersection.

I would argue you didn't act soon enough. If I see a break, I start moving the car before the break ever gets to me, so that I can pass through right as it comes up. It would be the same break a middle-sitter would take, I just waited to enter until I saw an opportunity. if that break ends up closing, even if you were in the middle you'd miss it. That may not be the world's best explanation however....

in cases where the oncoming traffic is coming in tight waves, waiting at the line to anticipate breaks will leave you mightily disappointed more than half the time. at least that's what i've observed from the 3 years i've been driving here. and when you miss breaks, expect to get an earful of horn if there are people behind you.

Lol. Jesda.

[Jesda]

The Michigan Left is so far my favorite:


Its possible though that my enjoyment of this left turn is because half of Detroit got shot and died, significantly reducing traffic congestion.

[dre1507]

[Razi]

[infinitgkid]

The Michigan Left is so far my favorite:


Its possible though that my enjoyment of this left turn is because half of Detroit got shot and died, significantly reducing traffic congestion.

I do that all the time when it's super late at night and there is no traffic.

I know this is going to sound stupid, but I don't necessarily like to run red lights or anything like that (I respect the sovereignty of the light). So I either pull a "Michigan Left" or plan a route that avoids as many stop lights as possible because I hate when you have to sit at a red light when no one is coming.

[nissangirl74]

Wait, there are actually people who don't wait inside the intersection to turn? That is pretty standard around here. Hell, we usually fit 2 cars out in the intersection.

This was quite unnerving when I first moved out here.

Yeah, but the roads in Scottsdale are easily twice and three times as large as the roads here. Where you have three lanes of traffic on each side with ample room for turning lanes, we have just barely room for two lanes of traffic and a miniscule turning lane (if you're lucky). One SUV trying to turn pretty much blocks your entire view of the intersection. Not to mention, I see green turning arrows in Scottsdale everywhere. so I don't even think it's that big of a deal out there. When my gf was out there last, she actually asked me why the traffic lights had 5 lights on them, instead of just the 3 red/yellow/green. You have no idea how good you got it when it comes to roads out there.

Jesda is right though, it varies from state to state. In TN, if you pulled out into the intersection you'd better do so with some intent because if you're timid, your a** is getting run over. Most people didn't chance it.

[Oatmealman]

I love to about take the front end off of cars in the jeep of cars that do that crap.afaik being in the intersection waiting for a turn is illegal in Colorado so i'' get within a couple inches of ripping some ones front end off,and the "holyshitwtfbbq" look i see on their face is priceless as a massive jeep about takes them out.

[DJ_B_Easy]

There are a bunch of roads here that if you don't do it, you won't get to turn. Ever. People will just drive around you after a few turns of the light and do it in front of you.

This. Certain roads in my area require you to drive like an ***hole or you will never get to your destination. You either know how to do it without causing accidents or you dont. The intersection at the end of the street where I grew up is one such area. I lived there for 26 years and never once saw an accident.

Begin NJ bashing...

[Dattebayo]

I love to about take the front end off of cars in the jeep of cars that do that crap.afaik being in the intersection waiting for a turn is illegal in Colorado so i'' get within a couple inches of ripping some ones front end off,and the "holyshitwtfbbq" look i see on their face is priceless as a massive jeep about takes them out.

It must feel good to be so righteous that you'd endanger others for the sake of being right.