Got money to spend and need help doin it!

[240dreamer]

ok guys, i have $825 and am pondering as to what to buy for my 240. Future plans are an all NA performance rebuild when i can get the time. Pistons, cams, rods, injectors, JWT ECU, machine work....looking for 190-200 horse. I have no intake, exhaust or header yet but i have upgraded the fuel system all but the injectors. No suspension mods so it's pretty much wide open here. So if it was your money and you were in my shoes, what would you buy?thanks a bunch

[GroundZero]

ditch the na idea, it'll cost you less to get 200 hp out of a turbo setup.

[240dreamer]

thanks for the tip but i'm pretty hell bent on the NA...if i don't figure to get the 190-200 horsepower then i might decide to go turbo. But as of now, i know what i'm going to buy and what i'm gonna do and it'll cost less than 3000. But there's always those "unexpected expenses". We'll see i guess. thanks anyways

[GroundZero]

a turbo ka at 5psi puts out about 230 hp to the wheels, and the kit i have planned out costs less then 2000 dollars

[NeedCAforS13]

dude, not everyone wants turbo... if the man wants to go N/A thats awesome! I myself would love to see a 200hp n/a KA:)

as for your original question 240dreamer, If you don't have an lsd already, I'd say get one ($300)! And then maybe a good spring/shock combo($400-500). If you still have money left over get some bolt ons like exhaust or headers or whatever else you can still afford! (personally I'd go get a front lip of somesort, maybe an oem s14 one:D)

Sean

[GroundZero]

whatever, i'll take my logical thoughts elsewhere...

[pball]

Logical Thoughts? A KA is 2.4 liters. The S2000 2.0 puts out 240hp, 120hp/liter. I don't know if the parts are actually available, but allowing that 120hp/L as a good figure for any well-tuned NA engine, then the KA is making 288 hp. And since it's NA, there's no added parts to break and the throttle response is virtually instant. No, it's not cheaper than a turbo, but just looking at the bang/buck ratio is *not* "logical", it's getting dangerously close to a Holy War. I've driven KA-Ts and tuned NA KAs, and I might actually build a monster NA too. I don't need 500hp, and I do like reliability and simplicity as opposed to white-hot turbines spinning at 150,000 rpm.

Sidenot, if you tune harder, you can get even more HP - Toyota Atlantic 1.6L 4s are 240hp@9500rpm; a KA in that state of tune would bang out 360hp...yes, I realize you'd have to rate the engine to at least 10,000...but it could be done. Heck, go exotic enough (custom internals, shortened stroke, full EMS, yadda yadda) you could probably push 500hp out of an NA, in qualifying trim at least.

[rico05]

The only fallicy in your arguement is the use of a F20C in an AP1 example. That engine has varible cam timing manipulation (Honda calls it VTEC;)) which allows it to generate that glorious 245hp...and a KA does not. Also, the Atlantic cars are tuned RACE engines (w/ VVTL-i once again, varible timing) As for 500hp N/A....Only if you slap a small block in your S14 could you ever hope for that kind of power N/A;)

But anywhoo-I say that a N/A KA will be nice and torquey, plently robust to take to the track and zip through traffic. I personally want turbo because of the flexibility of power increase. Want more power? Turn up the boost and get a front mount. Want more power from an N/A? Spend bucks and wait for the bolt ons to get there and spend a weekend installing them. Either way, with this chassis...you can't lose. Happy motoring:)

[MikeMurphy]

pball your logic is very wrong. You cannot compare two totally different engines like that. The s2000 has very different power output characteristics which are mostly based on the high RPMs it can acheive.

If you do manage to get 288 flywheel hp out of a KA, i can assure you that it wouldnt be streetable.

Simply put 200whp out of a NA KA24DE is a very tough thing to do. Maybe 200 to the crank if you go with cams and every bolt-on available. A turbo setup should not imply poor reliability because it is an entirely untrue statement. Turbo has nothing to do with reliability, if you do it right. Same can be said about going NA. You can have poor reliability if you dont do it right.

[240dreamer]

thanks for the arguments guys. believe me, i've thought and thought and thought about Turbo or NA. I guess i just want to be different; i know that all i see is Turbo's and thought NA might be a different change of pace. I'm young so i'm not looking for an all out monster, just something to run close with some of the mainstream domestics. Turbo is appealing because of the power advantages but torque is also appealing. I figure that i have time to save up for whatever i want in the next 5 years and i'm not completely impatient if anyone else has ideas on where to start or what to buy, i welcome your opinions. Even if they are Turbo...as long as it applies to my situation. thanks again.

[rico05]

To get 205hp at the flywheel (reliably...and you don't more reliable than what came from the factory) you need about $3k, a FSM, basic knowledge and this forum. SR swap man. Best advice I can give ya;)

[rico05]

BTW Exar-kun (a moderator on this forum) just put down 160hp at the wheels w/ Header, catback, a few engine goodies nad a S-AFC on a twin cam. Just food for thought.http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....38384

[Checkered-Member]

oh boy here we go again boost vs. NA

I too decided on a NA build up, I don’t care if it will cost more and I’ll get less power, at least me car will be fun to drive.My alti is very responsive and the power band is nice and strait, acceleration is very smooth.

My Audi freaking twin turbo, is so lagy, and the power band so spotty, some times it’s a night mare to drive in the city.While the alti, is more responsive then ever, I push the throttle before I even hit redline, it pulls me back, while the Audi, you cruise at lets say 40mph, you punch it, nothing happens, then the RPM’s skyrocket, still noting happens, and only then it starts to pull on you, don’t get me wrong its hella fast, but way to lagy, also when accelerating at a steady throttle, you will all the sadden loose a little momentum and then gain it back quickly, creating a jolt.

[240dreamer]

i've been thinking and i think that i will save my money until this winter when i can get more parts to complete my goals...thank you everyone for your input.

[rico05]

Just keep us posted on the build up man!:)

[GEO]

yeh once december 2nd comes along. My cars fate will be chosen.

[SkillaSX]

I would suggests on getting, some shocks and springs for all 4 corners. Then buying some white line T/C rod bushings. Then buy a front and a rear strut bar to make the car more stiff and responsive.

[pball]

Well, for the record, my logic was based on dropping 15 grand in parts into an NA KA and getting it to spin up to 10,000 RPMs - I fully realize that revs make HP. You'd no doubt kill the torque, and the engine would be incredibly high-maintenance (if the parts are even available), but there's no reason it's not theoretically possible. That said, I'd recommend spending limited money on mild engine work (I/H/E, cams, chip) and suspension (shocks/struts, bushings, swaybars and STBs), maybe 225s all around for a little more stick...basically what I've done to mine so far, it keeps the entire package well-rounded, but bumps your overall performance up a notch or two.

[dl240sx]

i would buy wheels or work on the suspension. get coilovers even if you have to save some more, they are really worth it. or just the basic bolt ons. lsd is a must in the future if you are trying to get serious about racing.

peace

[stilesg57]

Actually, I think it is theoretically impossible to make that kind of power in a KA. My thoughts:

HP is torque @ rpm. Same tq at 2000 rpm and 10000 rpm makes vastly different hp numbers. So you're right that you'll have to spin the motor north of the 5 digit range to make your horsepower goals.

Here's why I say you can't do it: Honda's s2000 revs to 9k and can only do so because it's pistons move at near F1 velocities. Only an engine specially designed to deal with this will be able to do it with any hint of reliability. The KA on the other hand has such a long stroke that reving it that high no matter how light the reciprocating assembly will make it reach terminal velocity.

I say (and feel free to prove me wrong - I'd love to see the KA do better than any of us can imagine) that 10,000+ rpm is impossible with a KA due to the stroke.

Just some thoughts...

[xdreamz]

hey dreamer, want the low down to get 350 n/a hp w/ your motor? think basics, X as in [email protected]

[240dreamer]

No, i just want about 180-190. Nothin like 350...thanks though

[240dreamer]

but i'm open for tips on how to get power...

[[s3]]

180-190 Dyno HP not possible with $800, try maybe $2000+

Intake/Exhaust/Headers would marginally give about 10-15HP gain. 20HP at best w/ tuning.

And dropping 15K on a KA motor is most retarded thing I've ever heard. Just so you can spin it up to 10k? If you have money to burn, then yes you can make a pig fly.

The guy with the Audi twin turbo is just sad, to say your Altima gives you a better rush than an A6 2.7T? or S4?

Maybe you should sell your Audi and just take the money and build up your N/A Altima.

I personally drive a 300ZX twin turbo and I've driven the N/A version, its a totally different car. You can't even compare the 2.

Once you go boost, you will never turn back.

[pstickne]

--chime--

The VQ35DE is a very impressive Nissan NA engine.270+ HP in certain stock applications. 250+ in a Maxima.(Very fined-tuned intake and exhaust systems.)Then again, it has 45% _MORE DISPLACEMENT_ than a KA24.

I wonder how much it would cost (and how feasible from a techinal) stand-point it would be to fit under the hood of an S13/S14. (People have done LS1 swaps and such, no?)

...late-60's 321ci GM engines cranked out 350+HP (just look at the SS or Nova for econoboxy cars)...

See, you don't -need- boost

[xdreamz]

hey dreamer, go for cams and custom tune chip. shop areound, tell what you want dont ask, and you'll get 180-220.for less than 800.

[xdreamz]

two words CRANE CAMS

[[s3]]

hey dreamer, go for cams and custom tune chip. shop areound, tell what you want dont ask, and you'll get 180-220.for less than 800.

Please elaborate on how "crane cams" will net 180-220HP

[xdreamz]

I know a rep w/ crane, and says they can or have designed cam and cams for 240 that with nothing but a ecu chip can net up to a 40% gain, but at that rate may not be dependable, so i would say about 20% gain should be possessable with under 800

i would poke around and see what and who can do it

[[s3]]

I know a rep w/ crane, and says they can or have designed cam and cams for 240 that with nothing but a ecu chip can net up to a 40% gain, but at that rate may not be dependable, so i would say about 20% gain should be possessable with under 800

i would poke around and see what and who can do it

http://www.negative-camber.org/jam149/240cams.html

Jim Wolf Cams - by no means a sucky tuner or manufacturer, unless Crane Cams makes cams that can generate enormous HP out of thin air.

Bone stock dyno 125 RWHP

He dynoed 149.7 RWHP with custom 3" alum intake, Apexi N1 dual, JWT cams, Castrol Syntec 10w30, 25deg BTDC, 17" SSR w/ Yoko A032R 235x40x17, 4th gear pulls NO ECU

25HP from intake/exhaust/cams

Dyno #2 same mods but with JWT ECU - 161HP (11HP difference w/ ECU)

I doubt your 40% is credible, that would be about 60HP more than stock (155HP) about 205HP crank....probably 180ish RWHP w/ 15-17% drivetrain loss. Thats if the 40% is calculated at the crank.

I doubt even 20% from the cams alone, remember he had intake/exhaust and all he netted was 25HP. Divide it up evenly among the 3 mods its about 8HP each. You could say that the intake/exhaust both make 1HP each and the cams make 23HP, but I doubt that is realistic.

Maybe you can ask the crane rep to make a group deal for 240sx cams that make 40% gain w/ an ECU alone. I would be the first in line to get a set.