GM AND FORD BAIL OUTS

[C-Kwik]

I read about that late yesterday as well. The contention I've seen made was that the white house undermined the negotiations by essentially saying that they would make sure the automakers would not collapse.

[480sx]

I think the UAW is playing a poor game of high stakes p0ker with their membership's livelihoods and trying to keep that fat unworkable contract intact until it expires in 2 years. They clearly have no shot. A child would know that.

For what reason is the real Q. Who benefits from this seemingly eminent disaster that the UAW is almost creating for itself?

Mr Bush still has a few options here. Including diverting a small part of the $700 Billion financial industry bailout package to the automakers without congressional approval because that bill was poorly worded.

Indeed. This is a monsterus problem in today's government. It seems like these 'loop holes' are almost purposely left in a lot of bills so that they can be later abused. With all the lawyers in the government and the US, we need to start writing air tight bills. They need to be checked out for loopholes, and these holes exposed long before they even get to be voted on by the senate or house.

Chrysler IMHO is not going to survive regardless. I think Cerberus intends to use whatever money they get to keep Chrysler intact until they find some sucker willing to buy them as a whole. That is better for them financially than selling it off in pieces at fire sale prices.

Probably true, Chrysler has been dying for ages. They have a nice van.. I think thats about it. The crossfire wasnt bad either.

I loved the reference to greek mythology.

[Bubba1]

For what reason is the real Q. Who benefits from this seemingly eminent disaster that the UAW is almost creating for itself?

Who benefits? Bankruptcy lawyers...

Actually, that's an excellent question. We can only speculate. My guess is the UAW leadership sees Chapter 11 as inevitable and survivable, plus knows if that scenario happens ,their contract gets opened up for renegotiation. So why give back anything significant now from their contract, when serious negotiations still lie ahead?

I also believe the UAW arrograntly thought their offer to give up that jobs bank debacle would be considered a major give back. But since most folks feel that clause should not have been there in the first place and since the jobs bank is likely to be very first clause axxed when the contract reopens, the UAW had little to lose by offering it.

[Cold_Zero]

http://www.france24.com/en/200...risis-

Gov't says carmakers must stay in France in return for aidBy ehong Created 15/12/2008 - 14:21



REUTERS - The French government said on Monday it was ready to act to save the automobile industry in return for commitment to preserving sites in France.

Automakers are struggling with orders stalling and financing difficult to come by, junior industry minister Luc Chatel told reporters after a government meeting with industry executives.

The government would be prepared to offer new forms of aid, such as loans or guarantees, which would have to be developed in conjunction with European partners and the European Commission, French President Nicolas Sarkozy told the industry chiefs.

But any measures would require strong commitment from French car makers to a long-term future and business development in France.

"We are ready to do whatever is necessary to save our automobile sector," Chatel said.

Sarkozy planned to hold a further meeting with industry heads at the end of January for an update, following a study of possible measures to help the country's auto sector be a net exporter again and regain market share.

Meeting participants including PSA Chief Executive Christian Streiff, Renault Chief Operating Officer Patrick Pelata and Valeo Chief Executive Thierry Morin declined to comment to reporters as they left the meeting.

Like their counterparts across the globe, France's carmakers have been hit by a sharp downturn in demand as the financial crisis has spread to the manufacturing industry, and thousands of jobs are expected to be lost.

U.S. President George W. Bush said in recent days he may tap a $700 billion financial industry bailout fund to help rescue the United States' struggling auto companies, though he said on Monday an announcement was not imminent.

Sarkozy has pledged repeatedly that he would not abandon the sector, which he sees as the heart of France's manufacturing industry.

He said help for the carmakers made up a significant part of a 26 billion euro ($35 billion) stimulus package announced earlier in the month.

But while not as precariously placed as the so-called Big Three U.S. companies, French automobile makers are facing massive problems, creating a growing political headache for a government that says the sector supports one in 10 French jobs.

"(The year) 2009 will be a year of living dangerously, when anything might happen," Renault Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn was quoted as saying in France's Le Monde newspaper. "No-one is going to get out of this crisis unscathed."

New car registrations were down 14 percent year-on-year in November in France as car sales across the world slumped, and worse is expected.

"I do not see a quick end to the crisis the automobile sector is going through," Ghosn told French media. "We have not yet touched bottom."

France's largest carmaker, Peugeot-Citroen, has announced plans to cut 2,700 jobs in France and the second biggest producer, Renault, has pledged to cut 6,000 jobs across Europe and temporarily close plants to match a halt in demand.

Industrial production data released last week showed output in the car industry fell by 14.3 percent in October, the sharpest fall in almost a decade and with many plants shut in December and January, even sharper falls are expected.

Sarkozy has pledged 1 billion euros to help unblock the frozen car credits branch by the end of January and offered a 1,000 euro handout to car buyers trading in old vehicles for more environmentally friendly models.

[480sx]

Apparently the Jap auto market is also feeling the pain of the big three.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28241203/

[Cold_Zero]

"(The year) 2009 will be a year of living dangerously, when anything might happen," Renault Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn was quoted as saying in France's Le Monde newspaper. "No-one is going to get out of this crisis unscathed."

[HashiriyaS14]

"(The year) 2009 will be a year of living dangerously, when anything might happen," Renault Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn was quoted as saying in France's Le Monde newspaper. "No-one is going to get out of this crisis unscathed."

Even the best-run automakers will feel some serious pains in this cycle, and Ghosn is smart enough to see that.

I mean, look at Subaru pulling out of WRC.

[Cold_Zero]

Or Honda out of F1.

[Jesda]

Honda lost billions in the second half of 2008. That's what they get for making big gas guzzlers that nobody wants to buy!

wut

[480sx]

17.4 bil to automakers if they jump through a few hoops.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28311743/

[smockers83]

A new poll shows that all of a sudden, the public is generally behind the bailout. People are weird and dumb. Weird because a whole nation just flip-flopped, dumb because maybe they're finally seeing what people have been trying to say what would happen if no course of action was taken. Oh, and dumb because the public wasn't vehemently against hundreds of billions more to financial institutions but they were getting bent out of shape over a relatively minuscule amount.

[Cold_Zero]

Now we are going to spend another +700 billion dollars in a stimulus package to 'Jump Start' our economy.

We will winterize homes, invest in transportation projects and update public schools.

[SullivanRacing06]

i hope they dont fail if they do itll be more of a monopoly for thr japs, hope that dosent happen!

[hannibal]

GM and Chrysler received $4 billion each today.

Ford says we're fine... for now...

[OriginalWheelman]

With truck sales back up Ford should be fine.

[480sx]

i hope they dont fail if they do itll be more of a monopoly for thr japs, hope that dosent happen!

Never going to happen. American trucks are the life blood of the american auto industry. Jap/Imports arnt allowed to build anything more than a 1/2 ton frame, or something like that IIRC. Not applicable to big rigs.