Gauging Versa Grounding Kit Interest

[Sentientbydesign]

Hi Guys,

One of the members from this forum asked me if I have or will have a grounding wire kit available for the Versa.

To be completely honest, I this car wasn't on the top of my list of vehicles to design something for, but if somebody asks, I'm always happy to try.

Hopefully I can avoid the all out argument I received in the Altima and Maxima forums when I posted an interest thread there.

The following benefits have been seen on previous kits. I can't say what if any benefits will come out of grounding a Versa, but every kit has had some sort of benefit so far, so it's worth a try:

Improve Throttle ResponseImproved Fuel Economy (Altima boys are getting 2-3 mpg extra)Improved transmission shifting- Smoother and faster with better down-shiftingImproved PowerBetter sounding audio (cleaner, louder)Brighter, flicker-free headlights, and faster warm up (applicable those with HID coversions)

So far, I've designed kits for the Altima, G35, FX35, and 350Z. The Maximas (3-6 gen) and Armada are in the works.

Please ask any questions, but be respectful. I'm really trying to avoid another battle like the other two forums.

You can click the link in my Sig to see the basic information for the other kits. I have 11 happy G35 customers and a slew of the Altima guys.

[Onyxblue]

Sorry for the question: What is a grounding kit?

[williamk10]

Have you had the chance to take a peek at the Versa engine bay? If so, how many wires are we looking at?

Also, are these engine, battery and ECU to ground?

[Sentientbydesign]

Sorry for the question: What is a grounding kit?

Please click the link in my signature. It will give you a lot of insight. Basically it's a series or parallel of wire strategically placed to improve the electrical system of your car. There's a lot more to it, but that is the very basic description.

Have you had the chance to take a peek at the Versa engine bay? If so, how many wires are we looking at?

Also, are these engine, battery and ECU to ground?

I haven't had a chance to look under the hood of a versa yet. I just finished designing and processing orders for a decent chunk of the Altima community. I think there will be another wave of orders next week as well.

I really can't say how many wires will be involved for the Versa, but I would assume that it would be similar in number to the Altima. So 5-7. All of the VQ35s in the FM chassis seem to have more electronics and therefore more grounding. That's why you see 8-11 wires on the G35.

I'm really curious to see what performance and fuel economy gains can be had from a grounding kit on the Versa. Like I told my Altima testers. If there are not gains, I won't sell the kits.

[#1Tango]

im interested, and you are more than welcome to use my car for measurements.

[blindsnyper]

what do the others youve produced sell for?

[deaftosociety]

thanks for looking into my question sentient hopefully we can get a few other people intrested in the idea so im not the only one whos into it but to the other guys who are reading this all ive heard is good stuff about the kits so i thought id see thanks again for looking into my post man

[Sentientbydesign]

what do the others youve produced sell for?

The Altimas sell for $67.60 shipped (gray and blue) and $77.50 shipped (red).

The G35's range between $100-$130 shipped (gray and blue). I don't have the red version's price on hand atm.

You can actually see all of the prices if you go to the link in my signature. It sends you to the Fabricator's Marketplace.

im interested, and you are more than welcome to use my car for measurements.

Usually what I do for test vehicles is sell the kits at 50% off plus free installation. In return, I ask for some of your time (1-4 hours) and an HONEST review. In other words, no fluffing results up, just because I hooked you up.

[#1Tango]

Usually what I do for test vehicles is sell the kits at 50% off plus free installation. In return, I ask for some of your time (1-4 hours) and an HONEST review. In other words, no fluffing results up, just because I hooked you up.

Im okay with that and im pretty local aswell if you would like to give my car a try. i dunno if it matters or not, i doubt it though but i have a sedan model of the car. but from what ive seen hatchs and sedans are pretty much identical in the engine bay

[Sentientbydesign]

Sounds like a plan. How do your weekends look? This Saturday I'm pretty booked with doing an install in Newport Beach. Sunday might be open.

Anybody else curious about this? I just want to make sure I don't go through all of the trouble making a kit for 2 people lol. If it happens, I guess that's ok though. Sooner or later others will flock when they see the results.

[matttail]

If you're guess about 5-7 wries puts the price in the $40-60 price range I'd probably be interested in buying one. Also if there any concern of this voiding the warranty? That's a big deal for me till the warranty is up.

[Sentientbydesign]

Realistically, it will probably be on the lower end of $50-$70. Depending on where the ECM and TCM are located.

I'll probably make 2 variations for MT versus AT. Does the Versa come equipped with CVT?

Warranty shouldn't be an issue. The kits improve efficiency by providing a better path for electricity. All of the points are ones that are already connected, just not as well.

The first kit I made for the G35 went on my car for testing. When my engine was warrantied for oil consumption (not related to the wires), the dealership reinstalled my kit without a problem.

[matttail]

that price sounds good.

Yes the Versa comes in CVT. There's a lot more CVT than automatics I think.

[Onyxblue]

Anybody else curious about this?

I have a 08 HB with CVT - I will buy one for sure!

[Sentientbydesign]

Cool. Most of the Altima guys have CVT too. I've only sold to two MTs. Most people don't think there will be a benefit on the MT, but my G is and I definitely saw improvements. More so on the performance side, than fuel economy, but then again, my G wasn't designed for fuel economy

[Urq]

Im interested!

[kc5f]

Good article on grounding kits here: http://www.innovatemotorsports...g.php Details pros and cons.

[Sentientbydesign]

Good article, but it has some controversial claims. The one regarding fuel economy is one of them. I have guys getting 40+ miles per tank more than before installing their kits. Kind of hard to negate actual evidence, regardless of how it happens.

[superskunk]

ok so tango has MT i have the auto, and urq has the cvt... what now?

[feloniousmonk]

From the thread in your signature:

Sooo... did you notice a difference? Nice job!

Thanks! To be completely honest, I haven't done any real tests.

From post #1 in this thread:

Improve Throttle ResponseImproved Fuel Economy (Altima boys are getting 2-3 mpg extra)Improved transmission shifting- Smoother and faster with better down-shiftingImproved Power

Big claims. Care to back it up with some hard data?

FWIW, I've been through this sort of mod once over 10 years ago and I think it's snake oil.

[superskunk]

only one way to find out.... dyno day! tango knows where its at.... we can set up a group rate or something.... that will settle this once and for all with the versa crowd....

[Sentientbydesign]

I'm going to try to avoid getting into an all out argument here.

Go look at the dates for those posts before you start making determinations.

That thread was initially in the G forum. One of the mods moved it for me when I got Fab Market approval. The thread you quoted of me saying I haven't tested anything yet was only partially quoted. Read the rest to get the whole story.

As for improvements that I witnessed, it's all in that thread. I have over 20 customers with positive reviews and will likely have another 10 in the coming week.

I realize that everybody is skeptical, but realistically, I won't sell something unless it really does something. I could provide you with tons of falsified data, but there's no reason to. The previous kits have worked. Maybe the one for the versa will to. We won't know until we try.

Active tuning has pathetic kits that they sell for quite a few cars that do very little, to nothing, but they make claims about HP gains. I'm not going to say you're going to gain 15 hp and 12 ft lbs of torque, because I don't believe that. What I do believe is that my G is a hell of a lot more fun to drive with the kit on.

[superskunk]

so are you down for a dyno day? before and after results?

[williamk10]

Interesting read

Hyper Ground SystemGrounding Your Way To More Horsepower

Let me just start by saying that this may not be a typical topic for CA&E; that is, horsepower. However, we are all essentially electron junkies and the product reviewed on these pages does flow them (electrons) from point A to B. But wait, this product might even be helpful to your audio system, so maybe I am not that far off. What is this product I am talking about? It's the Hyper Ground System, of course.

The Hyper Ground System, manufactured by Sun Automobile in Japan, consists of a series of large-gauge grounding wires for under the hood of your vehicle. Sun Automotive is a manufacturer of high quality accessories for Japanese-built cars, including OEM parts for Mitsubishi, Nissan and Toyota. In fact, these three manufacturers offer the Hyper Ground System as a factory option that can be bought and installed right at the dealership (in Japan). I guess you could consider this a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) product.

Ground wires? Aren't those the ones that go from the car's chassis to the negative terminal on your amp? What are they doing under the hood? Well, here's the deal: Newer cars all use computers, OBDII or otherwise, that control virtually every aspect of the engine and driveline performance through various electronic engine components, all to keep the car running at its optimum performance. These components commonly use a variable ground (negative) signal connected to the computer; thus the problem. Engines and transmissions are typically grounded to the alternator and battery in one location, mainly the motor block. Usually there is a great distance between this grounding point and the various electrical components, not to mention that these components are seldom mounted to the block itself. This creates variations in the voltage at these multiple mechanisms. As a sensor sends information to the computer, the computer in return sends out a signal to make the necessary adjustment(s) to other components. However, if there is a slight variation in the voltage, the computer will not compensate correctly, causing a loss in horsepower. And this is where the Hyper Ground System comes in. It provides a direct ground path from battery negative to body, chassis and engine components, making for an extreme improvement in electrical circulation. According to Sun Automobile, there are multiple benefits to using this system: horsepower and torque gains; better gas mileage; and quicker engine starts. The company also claims that it can reduce audio noise.

Like myself, I am sure many of you are thinking that you can make these cables using some 4awg cables and a few ring terminals, right? Sun Automobile claims its high quality wires are constructed of near pure copper, 99.99% to be exact, and 1477 strands per cable to optimize the current flow. Compared to factory grounds, this system offers 10 times less impedance, providing improved conduction to prevent electrical losses. It is in this purity of the wire that the Hyper Ground System has benefits over the typical car audio power cable.

While all this hoopla sounds good on paper, I needed to see proof that five wires can do what Sun Automotive claims. For this I recruited the Technical Editor of Import Tuner, Gary Castillo, to assist us in using XS Engineering's dyno. Of course we needed a car to perform the tests on, so I offered up my Volvo 850R wagon.

The first test we performed was a baseline (no modifications) dyno run. This was performed in third gear, which created some problems for us. Unfortunately, the 850R is an automatic and will not hold the transmission in a single gear other than first (first gear dyno tests are not very accurate). Therefore, the results of the test were recorded above 5000 rpm, shortly after the vehicle shifted from second to third. Respectably, the stock Volvo kicked out 193.9 horsepower at the wheels at just over 5000 rpm.

Using simple hand tools, we installed the Hyper Ground System. The cables attached to the ground points in a series or in a daisy chain configuration, with one cable directly attached to the next. Two cables were attached to the battery terminal, with one bolting to the strut tower and the other to the first ground point. From there, the Hyper Ground cables were attached to the intake manifold, transmission/motor block, head, and the chassis of the computer. Generally, this last connection is supposed to go to the opposing strut tower but after the various mounting positions we tried, attaching this to the computer chassis yielded the best results.

Again, we loaded the Volvo back onto the dyno. As before, we started recording the results above 5000 rpm in third gear. The results were astounding, with a gain of nine for a total of 202.9 horsepower at the wheels. Not only did the max horsepower increase, it made an additional 15.9 hp over stock at 5800 rpm, broadening the power band (see graph). Our torque band also increased, providing up to 14.1 more pounds of twist above 5300 rpm.

The dyno tests are always nice to see but driving the vehicle is where the real enjoyment lies. The response of the car feels much smoother, with an endless pull when the throttle is mashed to the floor.

As far as high performance products go, the Hyper Ground System is one of the best values on the market. While horsepower gains will vary per the vehicle applied one can't go wrong with spending from $115 to $205 for a performance item that is so easy to install.

Looks like a grounding kit will indeed help with a car's overall performance. I've made my own grounding kit for my previous car and I do have to say, I did feel overall it performed better on a daily bases. But then again, it could have been just in my head

[#1Tango]

so are you down for a dyno day? before and after results?

im down, since ive already dyno'd my car itll be easy to see if there are minimal gains.

sentientbydesign you got mail

Modified by #1Tango at 1:51 AM 9/12/2008
Modified by #1Tango at 2:03 AM 9/12/2008

[raventare]

Please email me when the MT version is ready, with every ground possible in silver or black, and I will do what it takes to get it...paypal, credit card, IOU, tokens...Grounding systems are the BEST to get what you have already paid for, its all good!!!

Thanks for doing this...any other ideas??? CAI, rear diffuser, supercharger;)

[Sentientbydesign]

I'm thinking about doing composite (read fiberglass or Carbon Fiber) intakes, but that's far from fruition.

I'll let you guys know if anything ever comes about.

[viet510racer]

i think im down for one as well. let me know if theres any slight gains or difference.

[Offshore1]

I'd likely get one too. Made a noticeable difference when I had a G35 and a slight difference on a IS300.

Keep us informed.

[Gr8dave37]

I am interested as well...I have an 08 sedan MT....I'm now in fresno...but am willing to do a drive if ya need a car for testing