Gauging Versa Grounding Kit Interest

[Sentientbydesign]

Ok. This week is super busy for me at work. So I'm going to try to stay off of NICO as much as possible.

I'm going to address a few people's questions/concerns/comments:

Dynoing before and after- Yes, we can do it. No I won't pay for it. Part of the way I keep these kits affordable for NICO members is by keeping overhead low. If I spend $200 on dynoing a $50-$70 kit, we have issues.

If the dynoing is done (in association with me), I will want to get a very thorough test done. This means 4-6 runs with the wires on, then completely off, then one again, then completely off...etc

I recently did 3 pulls on my G with and without the wires (only partially detached) and I was anything but pleased with the results. I put down 273 rwhp on a dyno dynamics. G's usually put down 240 with light mods (like mine) and dyno dynamics are known to score below dynojets. I don't believe those numbers and that's why I didn't publicize the results.

Test vehicles- 2 of them would be nice. If there have been any major changes to the engine/transmission since the car debuted, one of each would be great.

Meeting out in the Inland Empire on the same day would be ideal. I have a spool of blue and a spool of gray wire coming today or tomorrow. Maybe something can be done this weekend.

Please email me your availability.

[Shad0wXCalibur]

I'd get the kit for that price if it made at least a little difference.

[williamk10]

Pics would be great. Interested

[Onyxblue]

Just tell us when we can buy and I am jumping in

[Skim302]

Yeah just tell me when I can buy and I'll get one.

[motoguy128]

I thought most of the sensors on a modern car do not use the chassis as a ground. They all use a seperate positive and a common negative for on each circuit on descrete sensors/switches... with the exception being analog devices like the throttle pedal position sensor, TPS, IAT, MAP, etc. Some of these are 4 wire senors with a seperate power source form the signal. So I could see some improvement on the alternator, and large electrical loads like fans, rear defroster, pwoer steering, cooling fans and HVAC blower. But at most, we're talking a 100Watt improvement (which is unlikely) or less than 1/8th horsepower. That's not going to be even measureable in terms of mileage.

Keep in mid that the most imortant sensors are analog. The measured value for that sensor will be a 0-10V or 4-20ma signal. It doesn't matter how low the wire resistance is as long as it's been zeroed or calibrated based on the current wire resistance.

Ooops... I might be starting an argument. But just stating my observations, which could be incorrect, but jsut trying to understand how engine performance would be imrpoved.

[Sentientbydesign]

Let's say for a moment that you are correct regarding the digital sensors.

Those sensors still rely on regulated voltage. Injectors, spark plugs, audio systems...etc all spike causing highs and lows in the voltage. Unless the sensor is directly grounded or can measure the input voltage, then compensate for it, we still have a problem that can be improved upon.

One of the biggest issues is with Nissan's auto transmissions. They are all very laggy. My 96 I30 would stay in 2nd or 3rd if I didn't come to a complete stop at a stop sign/light. I would have to floor it, then it would down shift and the car would go flying. That was very annoying. I never had the chance to put a grounding kit on that vehicle, but I know of companies who have and have seen great improvements in shifting and downshifting.

Take a look at the link in my sig. There are quite a few very positive reviews.

[Bubs daddy]

Quote »Again, we loaded the Volvo back onto the dyno. As before, we started recording the results above 5000 rpm in third gear. The results were astounding, with a gain of nine for a total of 202.9 horsepower at the wheels. Not only did the max horsepower increase, it made an additional 15.9 hp over stock at 5800 rpm, broadening the power band (see graph). Our torque band also increased, providing up to 14.1 more pounds of twist above 5300 rpm.[/quote]From a grounding kit? Sorry, I don't believe that.

I searched all over the internet and haven't found one independent testing or evaluations of this or similar grounding products.

These are all manufacturer's claims. I read some tuner magazine's claims as well. I find that unreliable as well as they derive revenue from companies who advertise these types of products.

"Hyper grounding." I will put this product in the vortex induction, pills to increase gas mileage, and other "amazing results" hyperbole.

I concur it may help with dim lights but 9 hp increases from adding a few copper straps?

I'm VERY skeptical.

[superskunk]

he is so skeptical he posted twice! lol...

[deaftosociety]

im in for a mt kit

[Sentientbydesign]

From a grounding kit? Sorry, I don't believe that.

I searched all over the internet and haven't found one independent testing or evaluations of this or similar grounding products.

These are all manufacturer's or personal claims. I read some tuner magazine's claims as well. I find that unreliable as well as they derive revenue from companies who advertise these types of products.

"Hyper grounding." I will put this product in the vortex induction, pills to increase gas mileage, and other "amazing results" hyperbole.

I concur it may help with dim lights but 9 hp increases from adding a few copper straps?

I'm VERY skeptical.

I have a hard time believing those claims too. You'll probably see as much power as an intake will give if that. It's more about the whole picture. If you see 3 hp, 2 mpg, and you transmission and throttle are more responsive, than I think the $60 is worth it.

[motoguy128]

I guess my problem is that the only adjantage a better ground will have is reducing resistance in the circut that is being grounded....since copper has less resistance than steel. I don't see how it affects voltage variations which are a result of sudden changes in load on the electrical system. We're only talking about small improvementis in effeciency.

As for the ignition system. Small changes in battery voltage will not have a significant effect on the strength of the spark.

As usual, if adding some extra wires could gain 2 or 3 HP, manufactures would be doing it.

[Sentientbydesign]

I guess my problem is that the only adjantage a better ground will have is reducing resistance in the circut that is being grounded....since copper has less resistance than steel. I don't see how it affects voltage variations which are a result of sudden changes in load on the electrical system. We're only talking about small improvementis in effeciency.

As for the ignition system. Small changes in battery voltage will not have a significant effect on the strength of the spark.

As usual, if adding some extra wires could gain 2 or 3 HP, manufactures would be doing it.

Take a look at my other threads regarding grounding kits if you want a detailed reason why manufacturers aren't doing this.

As for the gains. I have too many people with positive results for your disbelief to be warranted.

Ever heard the phrase "Garbage in garbage out"?. That's somewhat applicable here. If there is noise and variety in the input voltage, then the sensor output is going to be off as well.

The G35s see better throttle response because both the TPS and Drive by wire systems can get good signals to the ECU.

Transmission shifting is improved because the TCM is grounded and doesn't have to transmit electricity through the bellhousing, to the block, through the small factory ground, through the chassis to the battery.

Sorry if this is coming across as argumentative. It's not meant to be.

[Bubs daddy]

Quote »he is so skeptical he posted twice! lol...[/quote]hehe

There, that's better...

[Onyxblue]

Any news about the grounding kit for Versa?

[Sentientbydesign]

I'm just waiting for test vehicles. If any of you are in SoCal and want to participate, email me. I can do something as soon as this weekend.

[Onyxblue]

If any of you are in SoCal and want to participate, email me. I can do something as soon as this weekend.

I would love to, but I am in the "sunny" Seattle.

[deaftosociety]

any news

[lazeballz]

If you need a test car, let me know - im In Long Beach(4spd auto)

[Sentientbydesign]

If you need a test car, let me know - im In Long Beach(4spd auto)

I just emailed the 4 guys that were available for testing. If you want to, email me (in my profile) and we can set something up this weekend.

[raventare]

I hope this happened because I am holding my breath;) but I will get one anyway.

[Gr8dave37]

I can tell you that I was not there.....I was in San Francisco for the weekend....although I would have like to be. Sentient...if this did not happen the SoCalVersaClub is having a meet Scheduled for the 12th I believe it is where you are guaranteed at least a few vehicles...not to mention that we were planning on going to the racetrack to play around at a SOLO event.

[superskunk]

not all of us are going to the track.... i have to work, but like stated in the email i sent you i can do it this saturday if youre avail. check your inbox i sent my number...

[Sentientbydesign]

not all of us are going to the track.... i have to work, but like stated in the email i sent you i can do it this saturday if youre avail. check your inbox i sent my number...

I don't see an email from you regarding this Saturday. I think I'm free after 1pm.

[aleckz]

I'm curious, do you already have the key points laid out that have to ground and where to ground them? I would like to test something like this and I'll pay in full if you are willing (mostly because I live in Nebraska and Cali is a tad far). Email me @ [email protected] if you want.

Thanks,

Alex.

[Sentientbydesign]

Alex,

No. I don't have the key points. Each of the cars is different. The G, Z, and FX are very similar because they share the "same" engine and come from the same chassis.

The Altima was extremely different. My wife's celica, was extremely different. Hell, even the older gen Altima was different than the newer one despite using the same engine (I think?).

I've got something in the works for this weekend. Hopefully, we'll have one variant done.

[aleckz]

Alright, good luck! Hope something works out of this I would like to try something like this out.

[Sentientbydesign]

Ok. One more time.

Who wants to be guinea pig? I'm happy to develop a product for you guys, but I need some R E L I A B L E volunteers.

[Offshore1]

Ok. One more time.

Who wants to be guinea pig? I'm happy to develop a product for you guys, but I need some R E L I A B L E volunteers.

I volunteer. I helped beta test a kit for G35 coupe and got one for IS300. I know what to look for and how to help w/ install instructions.

[Sentientbydesign]

Email me please. I'm not really keen on the remote test vehicle thing, but this might work.