GAS SUCKS

[anthonyrod1]

man people i got a new aem cold air...and apexi exhaust im not always gunning it and my best gas so far to a full tank is 235 miles...before that i got 330 can it really make that difference??.....can people tell me whats the most miles they got to a full tank of gas.....

[vpnavy]

I kept my Sedan between 50 and 55 (had to jump up to 65 a few times) and drove it 98 miles (hwy). I pulled 42+ MPGs! However, it was pure torture to go that slow!

I just wanted to see what the best MPG I could get. I average 33+- with normal CTY/HWY.

[kc5f]

I get my gas based on when I go by the gas stations near work that are 25¢/gallon cheaper than the ones at home! I prefer to wait until the low fuel light comes on, if I can, which is between 380 and 400 miles for me in the summer, and about 20 miles less than that in the winter. The farthest I've gone on a tank is 420 miles.

[Jojo Versa]

I get my gas based on when I go by the gas stations near work that are 25¢/gallon cheaper than the ones at home! I prefer to wait until the low fuel light comes on, if I can, which is between 380 and 400 miles for me in the summer, and about 20 miles less than that in the winter. The farthest I've gone on a tank is 420 miles.

On a spanking new V with 10 miles on it drove 410 miles, 25% city 75% kighway. On the Highway the cruise was set at 68 mph with many passing spurts at 75 + mph. Got 30 mpg to a U.S gallon, 37 mpg to an Imperial gallon..

Modified by Jojo Versa at 9:18 AM 9/1/2007
Modified by Jojo Versa at 9:19 AM 9/1/2007

[Jojo Versa]

I get my gas based on when I go by the gas stations near work that are 25¢/gallon cheaper than the ones at home! I prefer to wait until the low fuel light comes on, if I can, which is between 380 and 400 miles for me in the summer, and about 20 miles less than that in the winter. The farthest I've gone on a tank is 420 miles.

With a 25$/gallon difference this station is probably selling old stale gas distributors need to get out of their bulk tanks, old gas normally does not put out the high concentration of BTU's fresh gas does or the same octane level. You are probably getting what you pay for. Find a true large volume station, one of the top brands such as Mobil or a like, fill up, poor a bottle of injector, line and tank cleaner and keep using that same fresh high quality gas for a half dozen fil ups and see your mileage climb.

These new high performance engines require high quality fuel to put out their optimum. Note I am not saying high octane, just the recommended octane but fresh and top quality.

[kc5f]

Actually, the main reason for the difference is that I get gas in SC and live in NC, which has higher gas taxes. All of the stations in that part of SC are at least 15¢ lower than where I live, and there are a couple of stations locked in a perennial gas war with each other. They're almost always several cents cheaper than stations a few miles away, and with the business they do, there's not much chance for the gas to get old!

(With 35,800 miles on my V, mostly with gas from that station, I average about 33.5 mpg in the summer, so I'm pretty happy with the mileage, too!)

[Clipsed]

With a 25$/gallon difference this station is probably selling old stale gas distributors need to get out of their bulk tanks, old gas normally does not put out the high concentration of BTU's fresh gas does or the same octane level. You are probably getting what you pay for. Find a true large volume station, one of the top brands such as Mobil or a like, fill up, poor a bottle of injector, line and tank cleaner and keep using that same fresh high quality gas for a half dozen fil ups and see your mileage climb.

These new high performance engines require high quality fuel to put out their optimum. Note I am not saying high octane, just the recommended octane but fresh and top quality.

LOL BTU is a measurement of heat not for gas lolz!

[kc5f]

Google is your friend, Clipsed. "1 gallon of gasoline = 124000 Btu"

[Jojo Versa]

LOL BTU is a measurement of heat not for gas lolz!

When I went to school a BTU = British Thermal Unit which is and will always be amongst other things a measurement of energy.

Like the energy available in a gallon of gas or diesel and will also be applicable to a cord of wood, or the energy required to boil water, etc., etc., etc,.

I think you best find a grade 8 or 9 physics reference book !

[Clipsed]

opps don't I feel like an idiot! haha, well then whoever told me is was a measurement of heat is the real dee dee dee! lol! I vaugly remember it, because it was a friend that gave me the explanation in 9th grade. My bad!

[Jojo Versa]

For anyone interested here is a brief reference guide on various energy measurements and conversions.

http://www.uwsp.edu/CNR/wcee/k...s.htm

[Jojo Versa]

Actually, the main reason for the difference is that I get gas in SC and live in NC, which has higher gas taxes. All of the stations in that part of SC are at least 15¢ lower than where I live, and there are a couple of stations locked in a perennial gas war with each other. They're almost always several cents cheaper than stations a few miles away, and with the business they do, there's not much chance for the gas to get old!

(With 35,800 miles on my V, mostly with gas from that station, I average about 33.5 mpg in the summer, so I'm pretty happy with the mileage, too!)

My apologies, in my kneck of the woods cut rate gas is excatly as I described. Worst thing you can use in any motor. It is crap, crap, crap, be it in a lawn-mower or a vehicle. It carries water and impureties that end up costing you a lot more in maintenance and repairs than the litlle money saved initially.

[Jerky_san]

I got 200 miles on my car(brand new) and it had 3 gallons left in my tank.. 22 mpg.. I start out at 2k but I drop it down to 1300-1100 after i get past around 12 or 13 mph and it gradually increases to the speed limit.. So I gues babying the car doesn't work..

[versa2nr]

How many more threads are there going to be like this? I am honestly getting burned out on the whole "my car doesnt get the gas mileage that it says...blah blah blah..." Think about it, most of these cars were tested in a pretty controlled environment and your daily driving habits probably didnt come into play. I am just really tired of reading all of the "gas mileage" threads. If you are tired of buying gas, do what I did. I bought a bike and commute to work 4x a week 20 miles 1 way. No biggie. Just please, there has to be something else to talk about other than gas mileage.

[Ever Victorious]

well, since versa2nr is going to gripe about the threads of "unexpectedly low" fuel mileage, I'll add my personal gripe: the belief that a CAI will increase your fuel economy. I've never seen that happen in real life. I don't understand how it COULD happen. You're making the air cooler and more dense, so it takes a lower volume of air to burn the same amount of fuel.

But I think we forget the original predication: you still have to BURN THE FUEL to make power. A CAI will increase the availability of air (since your air is now more dense, the same volume of air contains more oxygen, thus more fuel can be sent to the cylinder and burned). So everything that *I* know about a CAI and other mods that allow your car to breathe is counter-productive to the increase of fuel economy.

[versa2nr]

I totally agree with you EV. You have to burn fuel to make HP no matter what end of story.

[srellim234]

In this area there are large discrepancies even among the same name brand stations. Here in the Alta Loma section of Rancho Cucamonga the Chevron and Mobil stations charge twenty cents a gallon more than the Chevron stations a few miles away outside of Alta Loma, whether it be another section of Rancho Cucamonga or one of the surrounding cities. I just fill up when I'm across town doing something else.

Interestingly enough, the Chevron stations that are higher became company owned a few years back when they intentionally drove their independent station owners out of business to take them over. I know what they did because I've known one of the independents for about 20 years and still go to him at the repair shop he's opened since then.

I guess Chevron figures they can price gouge away in this area and they're so big they don't care.

[Jerky_san]

How many more threads are there going to be like this? I am honestly getting burned out on the whole "my car doesnt get the gas mileage that it says...blah blah blah..." Think about it, most of these cars were tested in a pretty controlled environment and your daily driving habits probably didnt come into play. I am just really tired of reading all of the "gas mileage" threads. If you are tired of buying gas, do what I did. I bought a bike and commute to work 4x a week 20 miles 1 way. No biggie. Just please, there has to be something else to talk about other than gas mileage.

Reason I care about the MPG not being what it said is that I can drive my vw and rev all I want and I'll get generally no less then 18.. Unless you just floor it absolutely everywhere.. The thing that bugs the hell out of me is A. "Fuel injection is supposedly more "Efficient"" yet my carb somehow pulls better mpgs.. I've seen at best 30 mpg in the city and if you build the engine correctly you can have around 130hp and still get 32 mpg with highway driving.. B. My vw is over 30 years old with an engine that’s design is over 50 years old and the only thing that was really improved on the engine was a "PCV" and larger bore. So its around a 1.6L although I've seen larger ones get pretty nice mpg as well. and C. The way I'm driving the car i should be getting hella good mpg for the simple fact if you don't rev past 2k and your generally sitting around 300 more then idle. You should be getting very good mpg. Unless the car just consumes massive amounts of fuel just to sit there and idle.. What’s odd is that people in different parts of the country seem to get a lot different mpg which makes you ask if its tuned to certain blends of gas or if the computer just gradually learns your driving habits and attempts to make the curve off of that instead of having a preprogrammed curve that is "Pretty good" and adjust to your heavy foot or light boot..

Also on the discussion of K&N and CAI's.. When I had a 1972 455 BB olds 98 and put a K&N in it. It started getting around 2 or 3 more mpg & it seemed to have more power.. If you put about 5 gallons of 120 octane race fuel mixed with premium the thing would smoke the tires just by putting your foot in it from a stop.. I used to get around 12 or 11 city driving.. with me being harsh sometimes.. And trust me it was a car where when you floored it the gas gauge started going down right in front of you.. It would drink around 3 or 4 gallons in a mile if you had it floored if I remember correctly.. It was just around a 650/700 cfm carb to.. So I don’t know about a CAI but I know just dropping a K&N in greatly improved my mpg compared to 10 or 9 in city before..

[Ever Victorious]

you can't directly compare fuel economies of cars between the fuel injected era and the carbureted era.

Most cars of the FI era are heavier than their counterparts from the carbed era, through the use of thicker steel and also having far more components placed in the same amount of space.

Case in point: a 1980 Subaru DL wagon 4WD weighed 2305 lbs. The most direct descendent, a 2007 Subaru Impreza 2.5i, weighs 3071 lbs. (sorry, I'd use a Datsun/Nissan example, but the book I have doesn't list weights for the 210, which would be more relevant to the Versa). Point being: the 2.5l EFI engine on the new Subaru has to move 766 pounds MORE than the old 1.8L carbed wagon, but they manage to get basically the same fuel economy.

FI is hands down easier to maintain and more economical than carburetors. But our cars have become so heavy and bloated that all gains from the FI have been lost.

Then again, the "bloat" we have gained has made the cars far more comfortable, quiet, and safe.

There's always a tradeoff somewhere when designing a car. If we wanted to make efficient cars without making hybrids (and if we didn't have as stringent federal safety requirements), we could essentially make a stripped-down gas-can with an MR18DE and probably get in the 40's for fuel economy. Question is how many people would buy it, because it would be about as fun to drive and as well loaded as a 1986 Hyundai.

[srellim234]

I'm a firm believer that fuel economy should be better than it is across the board among ALL car makers, but there is another factor that is affecting fuel mileage negativelyeven more than the weight you are talking about. Stick a computerized monitor on the exhaust pipe of a 2007 vehicle and compare the readings to a car of past eras. To run as clean as they do today requires a lot more equipment and processing to be used for cleaning emissions than the amount that used to be dedicated to just turning the wheels. Take away clean emissions and you might see better mileage.

I say might, because I also see automotive companies and oil companies creating and maintaining demand for each other. They have an awful lot of $$$ invested in each other's stock, whether it be in retirement plans or just individual investment by managers.

It's going to take a startup company like Tesla creating an electric product that is a consumer-desirable alternative to put pressure on the internal combustion automakers to really change their ways. Unfortunately, I'm very cynical that Tesla, even if successful, will be around long enough to make a large enough impact. One of the major manufacturers will buy them out first.

So far the automakers have done a great job of deceiving the public that gas-electric hybrids really are the way to go. The gas-electic hybrid is merely a gasoline powered car that has electrical equipment added that makes it more efficient, just like fuel injection makes cars more efficient. They still rely on fuel oil to run.

Hydrogen fuel cell? Not a viable alternative. It simply takes too long to refuel.

[Jerky_san]

On hydrogen fuel cells I do believe those will not do anything but what i've seen is people attempting to do electrylosis on the fly.. on youtube there is a guy who has tons of videos on his experiments.. Hes going to soon install it on a honda and see if he can make it work.. its call hydrogen tap.. its pretty neat if you ever watch it..

[faction]

I'm really rooting for Tesla to make some waves. They need a huge public education movement for electric vehicles to be anywhere near successful, but hopefully they can start to make the Petro-guys a little nervous. I'm not sure the Tesla guys would sell. I think they like flipping off Big Oil/Auto.

What really needs to happen is repealing the huge tax credit for buying SUV's and giving it to fuel efficient/electric cars. I think it is a slap in the face for the gov't to "give" models like the Prius $2500 tax credit, then turn around and basically pay for the tank-like monstrosities that soccer moms drive around.

One of these days I want to build me an electric car. Maybe when my V gets old enough I will just convert her.

[XterraVersa]

I'm really rooting for Tesla to make some waves. They need a huge public education movement for electric vehicles to be anywhere near successful, but hopefully they can start to make the Petro-guys a little nervous. I'm not sure the Tesla guys would sell. I think they like flipping off Big Oil/Auto.

Give it 2-4 more years. Lithium battery technology is rapidly evolving for Hybrid/Hybrid-plug-in use. GM, Toyota, Honda & Nissan are expected to make big waves this upcoming auto show season with lithium battery powered cars.

I would love to have a coal powered car in the near future.

[srellim234]

You would think that by now someone would have made the roof of a car into a big solar panel, using that power to charge up and power accessories. In places like the desert Southwest it seems like a natural, maybe as an option.

With the exception of the low % of people with convertibles or roof racks all that roof area is going unused.

[motoguy128]

I think the oil company, automotive company conspriacy theory is rediculous... there's too much competition on the market for this to happen.

Solar panel on the roof. The next generation of panels are supposed ot be pretty impressive, but I'd estimate it would add over $3000 to the cost of the car and a lot of weight on the roof. You still need to store the energy in a battery to make it useable and park in a sunny location. While driving on a bright sunny day at noon, you might get 2-3HP out of it... big deal. It's a waste of resources.

I get 47-50 mpg, my vehicle can carry enough luggage for a weekend of camping for 2, run away from most cars on a twisty road and out accelerate a Corvette to 120mph, and it even has cruise control, traction control and ABS.

Why complain about mileage... shut up a get a motorcycle!

Interesting story about air filters. On this same motorcycle, they put it on a dyno and removed the air filter... there was almost no increase in power. They then taped off over half the filter... no significant loss in power. What did that tell them? the air filter wasn't the limiting factor. It was most likely the size of the valves, and restriction in the exhaust.

[srellim234]

Perhaps you should take a course on energy issues in college like I did. a relatively light solar panel to power accessories as I suggested is doable and for a lot less than $3000 if it's incorporated into the manufacturing process.

Research into the stock issue is quite easy to do if you look at the holdings of various retirement plans and the like. It's not so much an "active" conspiracy as just a matter of ensuring the profits of companies you've invested in. You don't buy stock in Chevron and buy all your gas from ExxonMobil.

GM and Ford have gone out of their way to lobby against MPG standards. Big companies are only going to do the bare minimum that they are forced to do. Unfortunately, in the United States, management in the last 12-15 years is only interested in managing the short term stock price, not the long term company.

As for a motorcycle, let me know when they come up with a motorcycle that seats two adults and two little kids with car seats and provides air bag protection for them.

I'll bet your motorcycle could get a lot better mileage if it weren't powered to go twice the maximum speed limit on the open highway. Why does anyone need that much speed if they're not on a race track?

[faction]

Unfortunately, in the United States, management in the last 12-15 years is only interested in managing the short term stock price, not the long term company.

I think Ford is learning that lesson now.

Who built the EV1?? was it GM?Saw an interesting documentary on how it's manufacturer went out of its way to kill that car. And I do mean kill and obliterate all signs it ever existed from the Earth. Even when the owners were begging to keep them.

They are all just squishy little lumps of metal now.

And now another company(geez-wish I could remember names!) is doing the same thing by leasing out a few of their electric vehicles. I have no doubt that those cars will meet the same fate as the EV1. The auto companies get to look Green by building a few great cars, but can destroy them later when the PR-value isn't worth it to them anymore.

I've seen a solar array on a roof somewhere...proabably a concept car or something on the internet...

[polishV]

i cant rely to that but no matter if i drive 65 or 80 on the freeway i will only get 30 mpg same for city driving witch is good.

[Woogie]

Give it 2-4 more years. Lithium battery technology is rapidly evolving for Hybrid/Hybrid-plug-in use. GM, Toyota, Honda & Nissan are expected to make big waves this upcoming auto show season with lithium battery powered cars.

I would love to have a coal powered car in the near future.

I know that the Prius is up for a revision in either the 2008 or 2009 model year and Toyota has stated that they will be moving to a Li-Ion battery.

[zookeenie]

i have just over 1600 miles racked up so far and i've been getting an avg 35 mpg with mixed driving - including cruise ctrl on hwy and a/c on.

i always get over 400 by the time the low fuel indicator comes on. which means i have 2 gallons left. I'm happy with it, not quite as good as my civic was but a helluva nicer ride!