FSM, can't find KS replacement procedures...

[paranoidjack]

OK, just ordering 4 new rotors, either OEM or hawk pads, 2 KS's, KS harness, and drive belts, and some other goodies (cabin air, fuel, and air filters).

I'm going to dive into the KS job next weekend, but can't seem to find the replacement procedures in the FSM!

I found EC-267, which contains diagnostics, as well as EM-8 with torque specs, but no sequential replacement procedure?

I've been looking for 30 mins. Someone point your pointing finger if possible.

[Infinitiguy19]

See page EM-8 on diasembling the engine to get to the Knock Sensors

Here are two topics that might also help: zerothread?id=116280http://forums.nicoc ... ?id=230219

[MAX_POWERS]

I did mine about month ago. I did not find any procedure in the FSM. Here is a post that helped me out. zerothread?id=116280

[maxnix]

The truth is your intake plenum and lower runners look like the inside of a tractor trailer's exhaust, only oilier. Your EGR tube in your plenum is coked shut.

So you can either remove the plenum, EGR and IAC valves and clean them all (lower runners can be cleaned fairly easily on the car) to replace teh KS and harness, or you can remove the alternator and replace the KS and leave the rest, including the harness.

Always the right way and the quick and not so good way.

[Infinitiguy19]

So on the FGY33 you can remove the alternator to gain access to the KS's?

Man those G50 enginneres really wanted us or the dealer to really work or pay for that one.

[paranoidjack]

The truth is your intake plenum and lower runners look like the inside of a tractor trailer's exhaust, only oilier. Your EGR tube in your plenum is coked shut.

So you can either remove the plenum, EGR and IAC valves and clean them all (lower runners can be cleaned fairly easily on the car) to replace teh KS and harness, or you can remove the alternator and replace the KS and leave the rest, including the harness.

Always the right way and the quick and not so good way.

I've already ordered the intake gasket.

Aside from (so far) ignoring your suggestions to install an auxiliary transmission cooler, I think even you Brian would say I have always done things the "right" way.

AE shocks, twice replaced already....tip of the iceberg.

So, I was reading about what you had posted re: chemical bath for a g50 spider. I'm not too keen on "bathing" my entire plenum based on what I read everyone saying happens to the exterior. Am I really going to soak the whole plenum in brake cleaner overnight? Then how to scrub out? small towels being pulled through?

Also, thanks for the links guys.
Modified by paranoidjack at 5:41 PM 3/14/2009

[maxnix]

The chemical bath will remove virtually everything. Check with a machine shop. The trick is having a Dremel tool to hone out the EGR tube that inserts into the plenum.

Due to the simplified plenum, there is only one intake gasket for it. Thing there are 3 on the EGR vavle and tube.

The lower runners can cleaned with Berrymans ChemTool and rags.

Good time to do your VC and plugs, if they are due.

Email if you need help and I'll see if I can flash back.

[paranoidjack]

The chemical bath will remove virtually everything. Check with a machine shop. The trick is having a Dremel tool to hone out the EGR tube that inserts into the plenum.

Due to the simplified plenum, there is only one intake gasket for it. Thing there are 3 on the EGR vavle and tube.

The lower runners can cleaned with Berrymans ChemTool and rags.

Good time to do your VC and plugs, if they are due.

Email if you need help and I'll see if I can flash back.

Thanks Brian, much appreciated. In speaking to Joe, I DIDN'T order the gaskets for the EGR valve and tube...will have to add to the order. Is the intake gasket anything like that found on an h22a?

WHEW - did a motor swap for a jdm h22a with my buddy last weekend in his prelude. Man oh man...the swap was CAKE compared to the intake manifold gasket. I was on it for hours and hours, with a dremel, intake gasket remover, razor blades, everything. Took hours and hours to get it perfect.

I really, really hope my car's is not such a PITA. That gasket remover really burns the hands!!!

I'll have to take a look at my dremel...think it got some water into it, and the head is frozen on now and I can't change the bit. I've done the plugs about 30k ago, but not the VC gaskets. They're not leaking and I wasn't looking to involve it in this project unless I had to...will it make the plenum and KS job easier to have VC's removed?

[maxnix]

No, but removing the plenum makes the VC gasket replacement somewhat easier.

Ask Joe if he has the Brembo Stillen rotors on special. They are great.

Highly recommend OEM for street driving.

[paranoidjack]

No, but removing the plenum makes the VC gasket replacement somewhat easier.

Ask Joe if he has the Brembo Stillen rotors on special. They are great.

Highly recommend OEM for street driving.

So, just to ensure I have it right, I need:

1) 2 KS's2) Harness3) Intak man gasket4) EGR and tube gaskets (maybe 3 you said)5) All coolant hoses, etc, already ordered.

For plenum only...is that all I need?

For the VC, I know I just need the gaskets and that's really it, right? OH, and will have to replace my broken torque wrench for these jobs, eh?

[qship96]

Dont forget the 2 cans of Gunk engine degreaser- always a great idea to really clean the engine well, concentrating the chemical and water stream under plenum to wash away sand, grit, dirt, etc BEFORE you start opening up plenum and/or valvecovers-you will be surprised how much crap is trapped there, and you dont want it falling into engine!!!!!!

[paranoidjack]

Dont forget the 2 cans of Gunk engine degreaser- always a great idea to really clean the engine well, concentrating the chemical and water stream under plenum to wash away sand, grit, dirt, etc BEFORE you start opening up plenum and/or valvecovers-you will be surprised how much crap is trapped there, and you dont want it falling into engine!!!!!!

Great idea, thanks! I will be sure to do that.

[maxnix]

TB and IAC gasket, and maybe VC gasket.

[bullittandy]

zerothread?id=166615

Here is my post abt replacing K/S.

I feel compelled to add that unless you have huge amounts of time and lots of energy to spend for little return then do not remove the plenum/intake. I have replaced the knock sensors AND valve cover gaskets on THREE (3) Y33's and removed the plenum on one (my junker).

Is Brian correct that the intakes are filthy? Yes. Does that mean that you have do clean them? My opinion? No. My reasoning? Unless you are very talented you are as likely to CAUSE a problem as solve one (assuming that you consider a dirty intake a problem). I would gladly trust Dennis to remove my intake-Brian too, but until I develop a problem that DEMANDS the intake to come off it should stay put.

Good luck on the rehab-buy stock pads and buy my transmission cooler kit.

[paranoidjack]

zerothread?id=166615

Here is my post abt replacing K/S.

I feel compelled to add that unless you have huge amounts of time and lots of energy to spend for little return then do not remove the plenum/intake. I have replaced the knock sensors AND valve cover gaskets on THREE (3) Y33's and removed the plenum on one (my junker).

Is Brian correct that the intakes are filthy? Yes. Does that mean that you have do clean them? My opinion? No. My reasoning? Unless you are very talented you are as likely to CAUSE a problem as solve one (assuming that you consider a dirty intake a problem). I would gladly trust Dennis to remove my intake-Brian too, but until I develop a problem that DEMANDS the intake to come off it should stay put.

Good luck on the rehab-buy stock pads and buy my transmission cooler kit.

How much for the kit Andy?

As far as not removing the plenum, I'd rather not wait until that juncture at which I would HAVE to remove the plenum. With 170k on her, I'd like to tear her down and give her the TLC she needs. I'm sure all of those hoses have seen better days.

What damage could be done? Aside from being careless, and losing something INTO the motor (or letting water in), what damage can one do? This is of course assuming FSM procedures were followed, gasket surfaces are cleaned, and all is torqued properly. I bought a $300 Snap On torque wrench last night, really looking forward to breaking her on in this job.

Secondly, I'd like to replace both the KS harness and KS's. I really don't want to replace the KS's, just to find out the harness was the problem. Or for that matter, replace the KS's, for the harness to fail in the near future. From what I understand, I remember reading on another KS thread that someone said the KS's weren't bad...but snaking the harness out and in was enough to merit the FSM procedure.

However, I need to address my transmission soon, so I'd like to talk about the transmission cooler. Hmmm...I think I remember seeing a thread of yours on this Andy - is that right?

[bullittandy]

i should also add that there appears to be a genuine difference between the Y33 and earlier cars regarding hose life. There was a poll about this recently and as I remember the breakdown was that all earlier (96 and older) cars had rubber hoses that were rock hard. However, on the three 97+ cars I own (plus my mom's 97) the lines and hoses under and around the plenum are all super soft-with no need for replacement. This includes the knock sensor harness.

I consider you an informed consumer and so feel confident that you can discern the difference of opinion abt plenum removal. I try to be emphatic with new people about removing the plenum to try and save them some effort but you know abt these cars and know what's best.

But I will leave you with a tale that still spooks me and a part of the basis for my thinking. I use to own and 1966 Suicide door Lincoln that was in nice original shape. One day I noticed that the fuse block in the dash looked like it had been sitting on the bottom of the ocean it had so much rust on it-fuses were literally fused to the block. Even though all power functions worked I thought "This can't be good" and so removed all the fuses and patiently cleaned the terminals and replaced all the fuses with new. Well, that started several electrical gremlins that required continued efforts to solve. In effect, I went from no problems to several problems by trying to prevent problems.

I sold the car after discovering that they were essentially hand made and are probably the one of the most complicated cars ever built. The A/C controls had electrical, mechanical AND vacuum tube running to it.

[maxnix]

Here's the flaw in Andy's reasoning - at 80K, the EGR tube in my car was only at about 50% open from the build up of coked carbon. When one does remove the plenum, it is interesting to see how uneven the distribution of flow is through it. Cylinder disequilibrium is very evident.

Fortunately, no electricity is conducted through it.
Modified by maxnix at 4:17 PM 4/26/2009

[Q45tech]

The problem is you are viewing the oily distribution from AVERAGE RPM not WOT rpm..................just as the EGR is only active over a short rpm range after warm during cruise not acceleration.Same with PCV which is only on when vacuum is high or blowby is great.

Vehicles which spend many miles on interstate are often more plenum dirty than those in bumper to bumper commute.

[paranoidjack]

Well, I decided to pop the new KS's in today (through the alternator), still don't have all my new parts for plenum, and it was a beautiful day.

I have big hands..but getting the KS's off the harness was a royal PITA. Don't attempt this without the proper pick tools. Also lost both of the little metal clips under the plenum....will toss some magnets in there to see if I can find them.

Anyway, the removed KS's ohm between 566 and 574. This is very upsetting. I was really hoping to find them bad.

One way or another it'll all get done, but given it's my DD, and I don't yet have all the parts, I'm looking to see if I can get her running tonight, or tomorrow morning.

Question: Can the knock sensors ohm properly but still be bad when the car is running?

Otherwise, I have to chase gremlins in the harness.

[Infinitiguy19]

Are the knock sensors cracked?

[maxnix]

Question: Can the knock sensors ohm properly but still be bad when the car is running?

Otherwise, I have to chase gremlins in the harness.

No, but they can be on their way to failure.

Get the gaskets, clean everything and replace what you must.

[paranoidjack]

No, but they can be on their way to failure.

Get the gaskets, clean everything and replace what you must.

Yeah, I fear the same. I spent the last hour just looking over the motor while cleaning the engine compartment, with EM-8 in my hand getting ready to tear her down.

I don't have much to do this week, so perhaps I'll try to take pictures as I go. No promises though, I failed last time! I think a fgy33 plenum pull walkthrough would be a great addition to the site.

No Paul, they're not cracked. They're in pristine condition. Looks like they were installed last week. And tested well - really irritates me. They both ohm to exactly 567.

I got the KS code several weeks ago, so there's definitely fault the with KS system. I too have more than 2 leads on my sub-harness, so going from below is just not an option.

So, tell me if I have this right...

1) Air intake, filter box, up to throttle body. Remove MAF and IACV connections.

2) Throttle body

3) IAC Valve

4) Intake Manifold

5) Plenum

*clean egr valve with dremel, clean TB, and possible bath on plenum noted*

One question, can I leave the IACV and throttle body on the intake manifold? Getting dark out, and from FSM I can't tell if I need to remove TB and IACV to access manifold bolts.

EDIT: Good news, just ohm'd the knock sensors again. Either I made a bad mistake and ohm'd the same one twice, or I can't read. I'm getting 575 on one of the old ones, and fluctuating 750-850 on the other one.

I think I'll try just changing them out tomorrow. At least I can rest easy knowing I cleaned out everything under the manifold (looks like new again!)
Modified by paranoidjack at 9:11 PM 4/27/2009

[paranoidjack]

Ok, well.

I've got the closer KS in, and bolted. Performed a variety of combinations to try to gain sufficient access to insert the paper-clip-esque bracket clamp on the connector.

Not happening.

So I've started removing the plenum. I'm going to take pics (already started) and perform a writeup for others on the site.

Not quite sure of the sequence, so I'm sure some things will be in the wrong order, or unnecessary, but going to dig into it now.

My only fear is what I've heard others mentioning about not seating the injectors properly and allowing the engine to hydrolock with gas going past theo-rings.