"frozen camber bolts" - did i get f***ed?

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masshead87
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Location: the blackstone valley, mass.

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Hey, I'm still looking for help on my air bag issue - mil-just-showed-up-also-no-air-bag-ligh ... 18476.html - but I could use the advice of a few Q owners on this conundrum too.

After I got my new steering rack installed, I was told by my mechanic to go get it laser aligned (he doesn;t do them). I went to the Goodyear shop in Franklin MA where they told me that while the front was "nearly perfect", the back was still fairly off because of frozen camber bolts and there was nothing they could do about it. They couldn't get them loose and didn't want to risk doing damage, the manager said.

It's more of an annoyance than anything, my car still drifts to the right slightly and after googling frozen camber bolts, I'm starting to get the impression they were just being lazy.

Anybody else have anything similar happen?


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elwesso
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I really don't blame them for not trying, because it could mean quite a repair if something got busted..

In all honesty if your alignment is that far off then the camber adjustment in the rear, the adjustment bolts arent going to help. Thats only their for fine tuning, you have definitely less that 1° of adjustment with that adjustment bolt..

qship96
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Give the bolts a shot of PB Blaster daily for a week, and chances are they will free up.

q45 life
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i work in a shop and most of the time when we say we cant do it because of a certain reason, its because we dont want to be blamed for it and thats what useally happens. the costumer will blame the tech even though its rusted, frozen or what have you. years ago we would try, brake or what ever it would take to do the job. but now any slip up or trying to help out the costumer we are blamed. so its not lazyness its protecting our self.

masshead87
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:21 pm
Car: 1996 Infiniti Q45
Location: the blackstone valley, mass.

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q45 life wrote:i work in a shop and most of the time when we say we cant do it because of a certain reason, its because we dont want to be blamed for it and thats what useally happens. the costumer will blame the tech even though its rusted, frozen or what have you. years ago we would try, brake or what ever it would take to do the job. but now any slip up or trying to help out the costumer we are blamed. so its not lazyness its protecting our self.
OK, I get that shops don't want the liability. But why exactly do shops charge the same price they would if they had been able to do the job successfully? I miean, I would understand if they had come out to me and said, your bolts are frozen, we won't touch them. But to only put 1/4 of the wheels to spec and then charge full price; that's what I don't get.

It's the sort of thing that makes me glad I joined this forum, so I can keep it away from you gypsies for as long as possible ;)

q45 life
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well unfortunenatly money rules. personaly i would have came and told you first since you have to start with the rear anyway and gave you the option of continuing or not but thats how i treat my costumers and thats why they keep coming back. but i know there alot of shady mechanics and/or shops that make us look bad. they should have told you first.

masshead87
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:21 pm
Car: 1996 Infiniti Q45
Location: the blackstone valley, mass.

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Well, since time is coming to do the plenum hoses, knock sensors and more than likely everything else under the plenum too, I decided to take the Q down to another alignment shop to get it re-evaluated. My tires are getting low on tread, and I don't want to replace them without having the alignment taken care of.
The manager takes a look at it, and says that I'll have to replace the rear control arms since the bolts are pretty much shot (bright orange with rust). He took me underneath and showed them to me, I took pictures but I can't figure out how to post them up here with my picasaweb account. His theory is that even if they were lubed up enough to loosen up, the washer on the inside is shot to pieces anyway and that adjusting the bolts will tear up the arm in the process. Does this sound legit? I mean, he can't even do the work himself as far as replacing parts is concerned (it's a Goodyear shop), in fact he told me that he couldn't source the parts.
I can find the control arms with washers for 99.99 on autopartswarehouse. IOS has the arm for the same price, but it doesnt say whether that includes the bolt and washer. What are your thoughts?
Here they are:
Image

Image
Last edited by masshead87 on Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

maxnix
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Bolt and washer were available separately. Do you live in the salt belt?

Alignment can't be done even on the front unless thrust angle can be set to 0.0°.
Last edited by maxnix on Tue May 17, 2011 4:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

masshead87
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Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:21 pm
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Location: the blackstone valley, mass.

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maxnix wrote:Bolt and washer were available separately. do you live in the slat belt?

Alignment can't be done even on the front unless thrust angel can be set to 0.0°.
Yes, I live in Central MA.

So would I be able to get away with ordering just the bolts and washers and having them fitted to the control arms? I mean, the arm itself has no rust AT ALL, in fact the more I get under the car, I think it spent more time in FL than I originally thought. I wish I could figure out how to post these pics!

kevindanielk
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The reason why the manager told you the arms will need to be replaced is that the bolts run through a metal sleeve that's bonded to the outer rubber bushing and the bolts rust onto the inside of that metal sleeve. If they torch or turn that frozen bolt, hot or hard enough, the rubber bushing gets destroyed and there goes the entire control arm. If you must get the rear aligned, your choices are to spray it everyday for a week or more with PB Blaster and hope the bolts free up and turn or, you'll have to replace those arms. I've been down that same road with quite a few cars I've owned. Good luck.

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Lokim
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I agree with the spray method, but I recommend Kroil rather than PB. PB is great stuff, but for the really stubborn bolts, Kroil is King! That stuff has almost ZERO surface tension, so it will soak into anything. I know it's expensive (around $15 a can here in Seattle), but well worth the money. If you can't get it locally, order it online...

InfinitiEric

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I honestly did not read the entire thread, but I know from personal experience in several mechanic shops (one of them was even an Infiniti dealership) that many mechanics tell customers about frozen bolts (camber or elsewhere on the car) as a lucrative way to increase shop revenue. 99% of the time the bolts either aren't truly frozen or are actually caused by error of the mechanic's sloppiness.

The same thing goes for when a shop tells you that your wheel studs are broken. Firestone Complete Auto Care is one of the largest culprits with this scam - they purposely over-torque their equipment or forget to re-torque the equipment when a new vehicle comes in and they themselves cause the wheel studs to break.. not because of a problem with the vehicle.

Mechanics… gotta have them, but also hate them. That's why I try to do most of the work on my cars :)

maxnix
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masshead87 wrote:
maxnix wrote: I wish I could figure out how to post these pics!
Sticky above. Just look.

q45 life
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do it right the first time have no worries later. people always think mechs are out to get them when in reality they just dont want to pay. i wish costumers would work in a shop for a week and see what we deal with. costumers, hate them but got to have them . if there is rust like you say then the best course of action is to replace it. ask anyone from the north about rust. a hundred bucks is better than half fixing now and causing more damage and money later. theres an old saying pay me now or pay me later either way your paying me. even if you do it your self half do it now or do more later.rust is bad and pb or anything else is not always the answer.

InfinitiEric

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q45 life wrote:people always think mechs are out to get them when in reality they just dont want to pay. i wish costumers would work in a shop for a week and see what we deal with.
Hey, I didn't mean for what I said to apply to all mechanics. Many are honest and hard working individuals, but some are plain criminals with a toolbox. The funny thing is, BMW/Mercedes-Benz/Audi/the list goes on and on.. loves to hire the criminals and not the hard workers. Sucks.

q45 life
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i try not to take it personal but those mechs(crooks)makes it bad for all mechs. and of course a few bad apples will ruin the whole bunch. i just wanted to tell him just to do it right for the little cost it is.

maxnix
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One has to realize that most shops deal with customers who just want to keep it rolling for the minimum amount of money. Any thing that can be deferred is. Few shops deal with customers who truly want to maintain the car to the highest standards. That's part of the education a concerned owner needs to impart on the shop technician and manager.

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oldmako
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Aerokroil.

Short of an impact chisel, the best rust removal / bolt unsticker on the planet.

http://www.kanolabs.com/google/

qship96
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Sadly, I agree that most techs/advisors push un needed services to increase the overall average ticket per customer- I go with my 80 year old mother every time her Toyota highlander goes into the dealer for an oil change, and every single time they come back with a checklist of every fluid that needs "flushing" because it is "dirty" {total cost of almost $900}.......even the ones they did less than 10,000 miles ago, same with air/cabin filters- they are so dumb they will change the filters one visit, and insist they are "dirty" at the very next visit 5,000 miles later.....the last time we were there,I had had enough, and when the advisor came back with their recommended list of flushes for "dirty" fluids, I made him walk back into the service area and show me the condition of each and every fluid they said was dirty.....they were all clean....and told him this is bull***** they are trying to take advantage of their customers and to note in the file not to repeat this practice, or they are going to lose a customer.......They are now operating similar to a jiffy lube


***** they even noted "car needs 4 wheel alignment".....tires were brand new michelins with zero wear obviously purchased elsewhere, when I questioned why they were saying it needs an alignment $149} when there is no irregular visible wear, and they admitted not checking it on the rack, their response was "based on time"....I laughed and said, did it ever occur to you that we had the alignment checked/completed last month when we had the new tires installed????? crooks, plain and simple, looking to take advantage of anyone and everyone......and in my experience, business as usual at nearly every car dealer service department in the USA......problem stems from how both the service advisors and techs are compensated, as salesmen on commissions and incentives .

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Infinitiguy19
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I believe Dennis did say to change the oil filter every 84 days and oil and four wheel alignment every 90 days. All other fluids and filters every year. :)

I agree completely with what you are saying as my local dealer said I needed Ball Joints (New lower control arms) when I did not! Then again I have SEEN people drive cars in with ONE QUART OF OIL draining out of the pan!

qship96
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"4 wheel alignment every 90 days".......yeah, only suckers and those with OCD and an alignment rack in their garage. Laughable to even suggest a car needs to have an alignment every 90 days.

m3clubracer
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These cars need to come with greased adjustment bolts.


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