Found my turbo!!!!

[uvamosk]

I was looking at all this turbo stuff and came across this..

Brog Warner s200 Turbo

the map!

http://www.theturbotrader.com/images/s200map.jpg

This turbo is said to support up to 400 to 550HP Costs about: 950$ in my price range.. and is counter weighted or something so it spools to full spool at 3500rpmsThats running 20psi of boost.....

I think this is what Im going to go with unless anyone has other thoughts?

500hp here i come

[95_240sx]

Good luck with that.

500hp = 23-27psi depending on how good your tuner is, especially your ECU as well. Not much out there will do that kind of PSI at or around 3500psi, and if it does, it is going to be a small turbo spinning to complete inefficiency. The GT35R I run was doing 30psi right at 4500-5000 rpm last time it was on the dyno. I would highly reccomend looking at something like a GT3076R or even the smaller GT35R.

Rick

[uvamosk]

Did you check the s200map? it makes 20psi spool by 3500rpms right there with the GT35r... From the map of the s200 I have plotted all points from 1000 to 7000 and at 3500 the turbo is at full spool at 20psi and almost spooled at 30psi at 3500... I dont know unless my figures off but if you could run them.... I would be very thankful.. I used 145cid even though im .20 over... I used 20psi and 30 psi with a Temp of 90 and plotted 1000 through 7000 for the math...

[uvamosk]

The guy i talked to at http://www.TheturboTrader.com Said that the S200 can reach 20psi at about 3500rpm to 3800rpm on a Ka24de.. and he didnt shy me away from the Gt30 or Gt35 he just said the s200 is about 300$ or so cheaper and has the same resaults and still carries a 2year Replacment warrantie..

[Chezedik]

The Borg-Warner is good to really high boost because it is for a diesel, but if you expect to run low boost for any amount of time, I think you can forget it. It looks like it would surge at ANYTHING below 8psi. But to have that kind of flow and quick spool it would have to be VERY innefficient, which it is not, so I would say that spool will be a little worse than you may think, unless it uses a really low A/R on the turbine.

[uvamosk]

Hey Chezedik.. I have a good question for you... Do you think I should go with the whole Stainless steel valves, and springs, and titanium retainers or are the stock KA24de Valve train able to hold up to about 400RWHP ??? Cause my power goal is to hit 500RWHP one day but 400RWHP is my frist goal.. I have read about people hitting 3??Rwhp and some people hitting for 400RWHP on Stock Ka24de with just really good tuning? If you dont know the answer can you point somone to me that may know... Becasue If its not worth dumping over 1400$ into my valve train I can put that money to good use on a Suspension or something else...

[Chezedik]

Don't worry about the springs. They will cost power, and accelerate cam wear. Just get a good set of cams and concentrate on the bottom end. A little bit of a port job couldn't hurt, but KA heads flow very well for stock (which is why I only port matched with a three angle). The pistons are first to go (unless tuned correctly, and then for safety's sake only to about 350). The rods some people have reported being good until 500HP, but expect to change them with forged units (again, for safety's sake) for 400. Basically you will be making 100HP per cyl, use forged components. You will be going a lot further than I intend, so you need to talk to Fiznat and WDracing. I know for sure that Fiz has made that kind of power. Basically, my answer for you is talk to those two, forged bottom end components (the crank is forged and supposedly good to 500HP, although I have seen 638HP on stock crank), good cams and just help it breath a little better. Also a custom short runner intake manifold is supposed to do a lot of good. Finally, I have seen someone with a wicked 'XS' logo on an aftermarket mani that someone is finally producing for the KA (it looks like one from an SR), someone on the board has one, just ask Fiz, he will know.

[uvamosk]

well how do i get ahold of fiznat or wdracing becuase i cant PM them on the form ... Thank you for your help... Im thinking about getting valves at lest... but If other agree that springs and retainers are not needed then im all for it.. Im the type that would rather get a lot of bang for buck not a little bang for big bucks.. thats the way this engine has been built...

[Chezedik]

Just email them. As far as larger valves, if you use something like a Ferrara valve, then it's mass will not be considerably more, as to require stronger springs. And they will give much better flow, if properly prepared. But they are very expensive. DeviousKA probably knows more about modifying an engine with stock parts than anyone I have met on the forums (although he is into the N/A motors, he may have some insight on what stock style Nissan valves are bigger and will work in the KA head). Just remember, don't lower your compression too much, look at the guys on kat.org.

[Iamjohnhayes]

if your gonna do head work i would recomend a solid lifter conversion they will let you rev higher without floating the valves as easily and they let you swap the cam w/o milling the cam towers.

[Chezedik]

How are you going to do a conversion like that on the DOHC?

[uvamosk]

Well I talked to somone through email, And They have kinda turned me onto a diffrent path.. Keep with stock valves, springs, retainers... Put the money into cooling, and oil cooling.. Maybe buy a set of aftermarket springs... for the stock valves.. but mostly focus on keeping the engine temps low and BUY ALCH injection.

[Chezedik]

My suggestion would be cooling, yes! Also fuel and engine management! Stock valvetrain is good, but stock management is not. At least for boost.

[Iamjohnhayes]

How are you going to do a conversion like that on the DOHC?

sorry i sometimes only think in a SOHC point of view. the hydraulic lash really kills some potential for slightly higer reving due to the higher possiblitlity for floating valves near the rev limit.

[Chezedik]

That is a great idea for SOHC, and the lifters would be cheap to make. I wish there was something like that for me.

[Chezedik]

Also, in relation to the S200, it peaks at about 480HP, and at a mind-blowing 55.86psi. This IS NOT a good turbo for the KA.

[Skidmark]

I think someone said this was a diesel turbo. My question is, are those HP/psi figures from a diesel engine, cuz um, those things suck bawls for making HP. Any gas engine would make way more HP per lb/psi than that. Just wanting some clarification on that.

[Chezedik]

Yes, I mentioned that it was a turbo designed for a diesel. Many gas engine turbos do not run near this high of a level of boost. This thing is meant to run at a high pressure. So this thing simply wouldn't be any good for our motors.

[Iamjohnhayes]

I would agree with fiz in saying this turbo is not really a gret idea for the KA . I did some math to read the graph.

now for all of this i assumed a v.e. of 85% to keep the math simple. I also calculated the boost @ 10 psi b/c that is what would max out my side mount.

RPM Airflow (lbs/min)

2000 8.353000 12.533500 14.624000 16.70 5000 20.88 6000 25.076800 33.45 ok now these number plot the x-axis along the bottom of the graph. and since these numbers were based off 10 psi you use 1.68 as the pressure ratio in the y-axis. now to keep this really simple you can plot a line directly across from 1.68 over those points. it will give you a very rough idea of how the turbo is performing.



@10PSI the turbo isn't even on the map until 5500 RPM

Now the blue line would represent 18psi of boost which with my quick math shows that this turbo would surge (yes i know it might not due to spool up but it does come too close for me).

Now keep in mind i keep the math very basic and therefore is only a rough idea.

[Iamjohnhayes]

ok well i take back the surge comment b/c if you assume it wouldn't reach full boost of 18psi 3500 rpm then the actual blue line shouldn't start till 19.314 lbs/min, which is within the surge limit of the turbo. However i still think their are better options for a turbo.

[Chezedik]

Exactly my point. In order for this turbo to be usable it would have to run at about 30lbs, and at that point you would be at about 50lbs mass. That is fine except for as hayes mentioned, it will likely be surging (or at least dragging *** while spooling). It is just a poorly decided upon turbo. For those kind of power numbers I would mention a straight T4 or a TD06-20G-8cm. But for my money, the Garrett will be more affordable, easier to find, and less expensive.

[Iamjohnhayes]

yeah thats why i reconsidered my original choice of a garrett gt40 turbo because it would most likely surge before 3750 rpm unless i was pushing 25 to 30 psi.

so now im going to use agarrett t3 super 60 which i am going to have to short shift because it will choke after 5500 rpms at 10 psi. however its only going to be a temporary setup for now till i decide what turbos best for me. and i would rather have to short shift b/c you can stop the turbo from choking but you cant stop if from surging.

[Chezedik]

Yes, but the T3 will let you upgrade to a hybrid later.

[Chezedik]

That is what I am doing, I have a Z31 .60/.63, and I bought a compressor from a T04b .60 vtrim. This will give me some serious beef down low, w/o surging. The downside to that choice is that above about 10psi, each psi will yield very little power. That is what you get a T3/T04e or s for.

[Iamjohnhayes]

Yes, but the T3 will let you upgrade to a hybrid later.

My Point exactly

[Chezedik]

I think I am going to rebuild and hybridize mine tommorrow, may do a right-up if I really get into it.

[Iamjohnhayes]

i finally got a hold of a garrett t3 "super 60" trim turbo map and it looks like i wlii actually be able to hit just above 6000rpm before the turbo should choke. which is fine with me because thats where the power of the ka is basically non-existant (i usually like to shift 5500-5800 anyways) and it should give me somewhere around 230 - 250 hp @10psi which is pretty good for a straight t3 on a ka.

[A34D4ME]

I just downgraded to a 60 trim T3 with internal waste gate. By droping my expected HP from 300 to 225 I will be shaving at least $800 or about 40%off the price of my project and putting a lot less strain on my motor.

Clearly, it wont be as fast but I'll be happy with it.

[Iamjohnhayes]

any reason for the change? you can get 300 hp out of a hybrid t3/t4 for not too much more than the 60trim t3. really the only reason i an using the super 60 is because im getting it with a bunch of turbo parts from a kid.

also dont quote me on this but i think you can get almost 300 hp and still be reasonally efficient at somewere around 18 psi or so.

[Chezedik]

Johnny, if you are reasonable for your expectation on your power, you can use a T04b, and you will find that boost does not equal HP. The cool deal about the b is that until about 12psi, power is exponential. But after that boost is worthless, then you get the e or s. But for what I want to do, b is best.