First Track Day - Hard, Fun and Engine Blowout

[spitalul2bad]

So...

April 1st came and I was on my way to my first track day with the Z. Sun in the sky, everything perfect. The car all ready to go. Mods include headers, HFC, HKS true dual ehaxust, Unorthodox pulley kit, lightweight flywheel, Injen intake, Motordyne plenum and MREV2 manifold and a ECU reflash. Got her checked out the day before. New fluids. Brake pads less than a quarter used. Other NICO people told me that the bremos are fine. Other NICO people told me that for my first track day I wouldn't need slicks and that OEM tires are fine.

Well... it seemed I had it all planned out. 4,3 km of track, only Porsches, M3s, Ferarris, Corvettes and Vipers to beat. Three 350zs were present, one of which was supercharged.

So, on I went. First few corners... Easy. So I started pushing. I knew the track. I was so excited going so I downloaded the GTR game and installed the Hungaroring add-on and learned the track beforehand. So I pushed and pushed. The car was beautiful. I never felt her so stable, I never thought she could be pushed so hard.

However, after the first 20 minute stint, I came in last. Why? The brakes were hardly working (overheated) and I had no f-ing grip in the corners. I am sorry to say, but I almost tore the Bridgestones apart trying to kiss the apex "just so", and they weren't having any of it. The asphalt was perfect, and a little soft, and for that... you need slicks.

So, disappointed after my first 20 minutes, I walked onto the paddock at the F1 track and looked at all the other cars. Everyone, even Russian Ladas from the early 60s racing in the slowest group had f-ing slicks and huge brakes! I have never seen such a huge a display of Big Brake Kits! And wouldn't you know it? Everyone was on slicks! And these were all hobby-amateur drivers and not actual "racers". No teams involved, no sponsorships, no anything. Yet everyone was thoughtful enough to buy slicks and better brakes. But not me.

I am very disappointed with NICO for this. I asked 1 to 3 months before about getting slicks and brakes, and everyone told me that the Brembos are fine and that for my first time the OEM tires would be okay. But no... The first 5 minutes, before the brakes got hot and tires couldn't take it, I was holding my own with 997 Tubos and new M3s (Hamman tuned even). But then... off to the paddock 'cause the brakes are too hot.

I urge anyone who wants to go to a track day: buy the bigger better brakes, not only for stopping power but for heat dissipation and resistance, and in God's sakes buy the damn slicks!

And things are about to get worse.

I have never abused my car. On the street, driving it, things are pretty slow and normal. The car has been in "bed rest" for winter, and has seen sunlight only a few days before the track day. I took her for a full inspection at a Nissan dealer. Everything was ok. Car has less than 15.000 miles on it (in kilometers, though).

Finally, I said "let's take it slow" and go for a film-run. I was going to film a lap of the track, so I was going slower. The passenger was filming and everything was fine. I was changing gear at around 6800 RPM (I have the REV-UP engine with cut-off at 7000), and suddenly, when going from 2nd to 3rd on a straight, I lost all power, engine stalled, no brakes, no power-steering, looked in the mirror to find a HUGE wad of white smoke, then some black smoke, all coming from the exhaust. I stopped the car, track marshals came and towed me to the paddock.

The smoke was coming from the right exhaust (true dual means they're never inter-connected), and some smoke even coming out from the intake. I checked the oil. It's clear. I check the water. It's clear. There is no water or oil mixed in the engine, so that's good.

The car will not start, it won't even turn. There is plenty of electricity. The power steering or brakes are not working at all. I paid a tow truck to take it to the Nissan dealership today. They are opening the engine as I type this. I had to wait all night in the cold for the tow truck to come TWO COUNTRIES away (the F1 track is in Hungary, I live in Romania) to pick me up and f-ing Nissan wouldn't even pay for the tow although the car is still within warranty!

This has been one of the worst experiences of my life. It started great, and went downhill. I love going on the track. Not with this car, not with these brakes, not with these tires and NOT with this kind of shoddy reliability. I am even thinking of selling the car.

I would've understood if it had been a brake or tire problem... A tire blowout of loss of brake fluid or something I was abusing too much. But not the "reliable engine from Japanes manufacturing". Maybe I've seen German cars for too long but I never had this happen to me.

The car is almost new! I am still waiting to find out EXACTLY what it was. Altough I suspect loss of compression or burning a gasket... or something.

Pictures:


Modified by spitalul2bad at 5:22 AM 4/2/2009

[zozoka1212]

LOL

April 1st?

Hope anyways.

Was this on the Hungaroring? Looks familiar to me. I've been there few times to check out formula1 and all the hookers before after. LOL That ring has couple of crazy corners. I've never driven on it but seen some crazy crashes.

Looked like a cold day. Usually around 20 celsius this time of the year. Which would be perfect for the cars.

[dasoupdude]

Damn, im sorry that happened. That is pretty effed that Nissan didn't cover you for towing fees.

I am very disappointed with NICO for this. I asked 1 to 3 months before about getting slicks and brakes, and everyone told me that the Brembos are fine and that for my first time the OEM tires would be okay.

Perhaps they were misinformed and though you were just going to do normal auto crossing?

Racing constantly on a track that's well over 2 miles long is enough to know that your sh*t will get eaten for breakfast within a small amount of time.

I wish you the best and hope everything gets sorted out

[spitalul2bad]

LOL

April 1st?

Hope anyways.

Was this on the Hungaroring? Looks familiar to me. I've been there few times to check out formula1 and all the hookers before after. LOL That ring has couple of crazy corners. I've never driven on it but seen some crazy crashes.

Looked like a cold day. Usually around 20 celsius this time of the year. Which would be perfect for the cars.

Yes, it's the Hungaroring F1 circuit.

It was April 1st, but it wasn't no joke. It was a wednesday, and that's the day they open their track. Luck happened that it was the 1st of April. It wasn't cold, around 20 degrees, you are right. The Sun came out for the second part of the day.

Damn, im sorry that happened. That is pretty effed that Nissan didn't cover you for towing fees.

Perhaps they were misinformed and though you were just going to do normal auto crossing?

Racing constantly on a track that's well over 2 miles long is enough to know that your sh*t will get eaten for breakfast within a small amount of time.

I wish you the best and hope everything gets sorted out

The car is in the shop right now. Hope they figure out what happened by tonight. Yes, I did say I was going in for a track day on an F1 circuit... those are ALL longer than 4 km. Anyway, it's well over now, and too late to do anything except inform others... if you are planning on going on a track day...

GET THE SLICKS. GET THE BRAKES. More power is the least of your worries.

[Eikon]

Beautiful Pictures!!!!

Sorry to hear about your trouble.

You think you're unhappy with Nissan for not paying your towing bill.. Wait til they tell you they aren't going pay for the engine repair. Since you were on a race track, you will most likely be told that you were abusing the vehicle, and they will probably deny your warranty claim.

I really hope I'm wrong about that though.

[zozoka1212]

Yes, it's the Hungaroring F1 circuit.

It was April 1st, but it wasn't no joke. It was a wednesday, and that's the day they open their track. Luck happened that it was the 1st of April. It wasn't cold, around 20 degrees, you are right. The Sun came out for the second part of the day.GET THE SLICKS. GET THE BRAKES. More power is the least of your worries.

Sorry with you guys in europe you never know. Always joking and vcking with each other. LOL

Man you picked the wrong track for the first time. The circuit is one of the slowest due to the stupid corners. You are constantly on the brake and steer. There is no long stretch at all. I think Hungaroring is one of the hardest circuit in F1. Lot worst than Monaco. You should check out the Porsche day on the ring. Not sure if it still has but you can see the brakes fail on them too. Imagine how pissed they are. Those factory brakes are more durable then Nissan but they still get cooked.

I do agree with above comment. Car companies usuallly not cover track events. So next time if you have trouble when you have fun day. Just tow the car few miles down the road and call them saying it happened when you were on the road. Not sure how it goes in Europe tho. I never had car with warranty on the track not here in North America nor Europe.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Watermelonwarrior]

You probably wernt sticking cause of how cold it was. I was on the track this weekend and my grip was nothing compared to what it was last October. Everyone out there was having a hard time getting their car to grip since it was cold. It was only around 50 degrees in Dallas. I wouldn't get a big brake kit for your first time on the track but better pads would have been a good idea.

[evildky]

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, a few things, first the oil, I'm not intinately familiar with the VQ's but I've heard before tracking you need to add the baffeled oil pan spacer

youe brembo's should have been sufficient, the vert does add a bit of weight but some ducting should help keep the rotors cool, also if your fluid is boiling simply upgrade to silicone fluid

the tires, eyah bridgestones are street tires, you cna lap in them but you just can't expect a street tire to perform well in track conditions, the sidewalls are far too flimsy, a set of shaved toyo R888's would have been a good choice, they are used in a lot of spac classes and ahve enought read you can drive them to and from the event

[Cesardrgn]

That's a lot of great cars i see!!!

[JETPILOT]

Wow....

First.... a set of slicks with stock (non adjustable front camber) and OEM pads won't allow you to take adavantage of the benefit slicks or even a semi slick tire will offer.

Second... You can't take a set of OEM pads and run them on a road race course and expect them not to overheat and fade.

DO NOT put silicone brake fluid in the car. You will be replacing the brake system. Type 4 is what you need.

My advice is not to listen to most people. Most people have no idea what they are talking about. Show up to the track with everything you can afford to put on your car. I showed up at the track for the first ime in a 670HP twin turbo Z with every mod you can think of. My first track eperience was amazing considering what my car is now capable of.

Sound like your out of luck wit hthat warranty. Good luck through. breaking stuff at the track is part of the game!

I'm building my 4th motor now. That's just the way it goes!



This was yesterday!

[R350Zz33]

i herd about that jet what did you do now? and to the op brake cooler get a better head gasket some slicks better pads or bbk and give the z another shot.

[dasoupdude]

My advice is not to listen to most people. Most people have no idea what they are talking about.

get a better head gasket some slicks better pads or bbk and give the z another shot.

Amusing how some things turn out, anywhoo..

I never knew they had mustangs and vipers across the pond!

[spitalul2bad]

Yup. There were two 500HP Shelby Cobra Mustangs, fully customed out. And two Vipers. A current model and a 1994 GTS in blue with white strpies (it was beautiful, love the car).

I forgot to mention I was running the Hawk Brake Pads with the OEM Brembo brakes. I did not upgrade to steel braided lines or any other type of fluid. Just stock and OEM.

Finally, I did not call Nissan Pan Europe service and tell them I got an engine failiure on a track. I was smart enough to get a fellow track-day-goer with a trailer to get me outside and into the closest village.

Noone at Nissan knows that my mishap happened on a race track. I wasn't that dumb as to inform them. I wouldn't suspect they covered any racing within their warranty. At least for the 350Z. The GT-R however is fully covered even (espcially) on race tracks.

[dasoupdude]

The GT-R however is fully covered even (espcially) on race tracks.

whoa nelly. Here in the U.S. if your sat nav picks up your position on a race track, your warranty is automatically voided.



whoa, is that a makinen lancer ?

[spitalul2bad]

Yup. That was the Makinen edition. Fully kitted, 500+ whp. Had problems with starter, but once you push it to go, it flies.

The GT-R's top speed is electronically limited. But once the sat nav sees that you're on a race track, the limiter is turned off automatically. However, you are forbidden to dis-engage the traction control and other stablity computers. If you turn the VDC/TCS/whatever it's called off, it's bye bye warranty.

[R350Zz33]

the Makinen edition evo is one of my all times favs i have it in grand turismo and i was just watching some videos of a nasty one last night.

[nismofly]

Don't know what tires come stock but obviously it sounds like they're not up to the task...however don't jump straight to slicks, you're skipping important steps in between...

If you never want to make yourself a better driver then by all means go right ahead, but you will never approach the limit of capabilities if you switch to slicks with so little experience.

Get a good high end street tire, can't suggest anything because the available tires vary quite a bit from country to country...run a set or 3 down, then step up to a semi.

I know your semi slick selection is better there, you'll find that learning to drive on good street tires where they don't burn up so fast, you'll improve as a driver not only speed wise but also be able to approach the limit closer. Then when you step up to the faster tires you'll be able to use them to their potential.

[spitalul2bad]

Well... I have very little video footage of my runs. After a couple of laps I wanted to film one and went slower, however, at the end of it, the track marshals forbid me to film again since I did not use a special auto tripod or camera mount and holding a camera (by the passenger, of course) was too dangerous. So... just one short, SLOW lap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dF9AtQW3RI

However, you can spot some nice cars at the start. Also, you can watch it in HD.

Finally, I am still waiting for a call-back from the Nissan dealership... they're still trying to figure out what actually happened to the engine. I really hope it's repair-able. Because, if it's a busted engine and they don't cover a new one under warranty, I don't have the bucks to buy a new one right now. Plus, I'd rather buy a build block from Injected Performance for $10.000 than get another VQ35DE REV-UP.

So, I'm looking at 3 - 6 months of no 350Z or something fixable. But, if I do have to bench the car for 6 months, I'd best be getting some fully kitted, bored-out, 4.15L Brian Crower Stroker, Cosworth-flaming, Injected Performance uber N/A engine.

[Watermelonwarrior]

Doesn't seem like your following the "line" very well. Might be why your car wasn't sticking. Seems like your turning in to early and missing the apex.

[spitalul2bad]

The filmed lap was a slow one. I had other cars behind me and didn't want to slow them down. After 1/2 a lap, the red flag came on and we were brought back into the pit lane.

So, it wasn't a "good lap" by any standards. We just started filming... we wanted to do a good lap and some pass-by-s and some dials + pedals... however, after re-entering the track... the engine failed.

I am very disappointed with Nissan (reliability and warranty - if the brakes or tires had gone out on me, it would've been my fault. But engine failure? On an almost brand-new car?) and the footage we filmed. It was the first and only footage we got

Still... frustration has gone a little past me by now, all that's left is the desire to see my car back on the streets.

Fix it Nissan! Fix it!

[C-Kwik]

First.... a set of slicks with stock (non adjustable front camber) and OEM pads won't allow you to take adavantage of the benefit slicks or even a semi slick tire will offer.

It won't allow one to take full advantage of all the grip in a tire, but that could be said of even a good street tire as optimal alignment settings for racing and street car use are not necessarily the same. However, a sticker tire will still provide more grip. And that still typically translates into faster lap times. An exception might be if the suspension geometry is so mismatched for the additional load that nearing the new limit causes some really undesirable behaviors.

There isn't much reason the OE pads wouldn't be able to provide enough clamping force to lock up a slick. The general exception would be if fade occurs, but that's ultimately a braking problem, not an issue with the tire directly. But a slick will allow a driver to decelerate faster which could translate to higher peak brake temperatures.

But to be clear, Good performance street tires should be fine for the track. You may not be as fast, but any driver can still have tons of fun working within the limits of a car's handling capabilities.

Second... You can't take a set of OEM pads and run them on a road race course and expect them not to overheat and fade.

Depends on the course really. Some courses are much more demanding of brakes than others.

DO NOT put silicone brake fluid in the car. You will be replacing the brake system. Type 4 is what you need.

Agreed. Especially with ABS cars as activation of it can cause the fluid to become aerated. DOT 4 is usually sufficient for most people, but they also sell Glycol based Dot 5 (dubbed 5.1) for those that truly need a brake fluid with higher boiling points.

My advice is not to listen to most people. Most people have no idea what they are talking about. Show up to the track with everything you can afford to put on your car. I showed up at the track for the first ime in a 670HP twin turbo Z with every mod you can think of. My first track eperience was amazing considering what my car is now capable of.

I disagree. Dumping money into a car without seeking to address specific issues can simply be a waste of money. Unless one gets lucky enough to work with a shop that truly knows what they are doing, then the shop will likely put on whatever it is you want or will make them the most money.

Many handling issues can be addressed with minimal mods. My first track experience involved a heavy amount of terminal understeer. A subsequent inspection of my tires after the first session immediately told me I needed more negative camber or less body roll. I already had stiffer anti-sway bars and I wasn't willing to lose much more comfort. I upgraded to adjustable camber plates before the next event and dialed in about 2 degrees of negative camber. Handling became quite neutral after that. I didn't need to have a huge investment of money to get an enjoyable experience at all.

You could potentially get higher limits out of a car by doing so, but that also means you have a new driver exploring higher limits. May be okay for some, but not for others depending on a person's natural driving skill levels.

Well... I have very little video footage of my runs. After a couple of laps I wanted to film one and went slower, however, at the end of it, the track marshals forbid me to film again since I did not use a special auto tripod or camera mount and holding a camera (by the passenger, of course) was too dangerous. So... just one short, SLOW lap.

A camera mount would have been ideal simply for the fact that we can not see what the car is doing. I couldn't tell if you were overstering ot if your passenger was moving.

However, from the sounds I was hearing in the video, you may have been overdriving the car. Again, it was hard to tell visually what weas happening, but I saw areas that looked like you had a lot of understeer and others that looked like you had a bit of oversteer. Best solution for either is to actually slow down a bit. Get the car's speed down a little bit more before entering the turn. To avoid feeling too slow, brake a little later (work up to this as you get a feel for it) and you'll actually start turning your car deeper into the turn. Then, instead of aiming for the center of the turn, aim for a point a little further up the turn. Basically you want a later apex. The line that this creates (assuming a constant radius turn) is sort of an outward spiral where it starts tight and broadens as you exit. This will help get the rear around a bit and allow you to get on it sooner, which leads to faster exit speeds. That white civic or whatever it was in front of you near the end was pulling away because he had much better exit speeds.

The line you took was a gradual move towards the inside of the track, then you followed the inside and then exited in more or less a constant radius until you got to the outer edge. The point of an outside-inside-outside line is to create a bigger turn. Use as much of the track as you can. Most of the time, you were aiming to the inside of the car in front of you. Assuming the car in front is driving a decent line, your car should always be aimed pointed to the outside of the car in front (except maybe when passing). To try and compensate, you tried to exit faster by gassing it more. Most cars will terminally understeer. Especially if you've already set up your exit radius and are trying to exit it faster than physics allow. The way you enter a corner has a profound effect on how you exit. The simplest discription I've heard of is "slow-in, fast out. "

Next time, try finding a good driver and imitate their line. You may even try following a FWD car with a good driver. FWD cars tend to require a flatter exit to avoid understeer. It would quickly get you a good feeling of what I'm talking about. You can simply adjust from there to determine what seems to be the fastest way in and out. This could relate to your braking issues as well. Aiming towards the inside of the track too early will mean you have to bring your speed down more to be able to make that turn (your effectively creating a turn as tight as the track). That means you also end up using the brakes more. The driving lines racecar drivers use basically try ti keep momentum up. Keeping momentum up minimized brake usage.

On that note determine what kind of brake fade you were experiencing. If the pedal remained firm, you have pad fade. Coupled with the tips above, if you stil experience fade, a better pad may be in order (one with a higher operating temperature range). If your pedal sinks, then your fluid is boiling. Better fluid can help, but make sure its not a heat capacity issue as well (rotor size). With OE/street pads though, typically the pad will fade before the fluid boils.

As you get better, you'll start adding in trail-braking and really brake deep and still get that rear end around enough to exit with decent rear tire slip angles.

Lastly, I don't know if you are driving a manual or automatic, but if its a manual, learn to heel-toe. It seems you were shifting a lot mid-turn. You should be in your exit gear before entering a turn in most turns. If its an auto, use the manual mode and downshift as you are braking for a turn, not in the middle. Driving smoothly is a huge step to driving faster.

[spitalul2bad]

Now that's some serious advice!

I was driving a manual, and yes, sometimes I had the misfortune to mis-time the shifts and had to downchange during the turn.

Again, the filming was done pretty early on, I was still getting to grips with the car. As I said before, this was my first ever visit to a track.

I had understeer and oversteer, mainly thanks to not being able to keep the racing line. I was sometimes intimidated by the other cars. I was warned beforehand by a track marshall that the people who come to race are (and I'm quoting a man who must've seen it all) "f-ing insane". There were 3 crashes on that day that were 100% avoidable had the drivers paid more attention to what was behind them and to their side.

Also, my braking points and turning points were all done with safety in mind. After noticing how inadequete my tires and brakes were, I was a little scared to punish them further.

Remember, this was all done in ANOTHER COUNTRY. I had to DRIVE BACK in the SAME car on the SAME TIRES and using the SAME BRAKES... so, reliability was my primary concern.

The brake pedal was not hard, and the pedal sunk... so I guess the liquid was boiling. This is why I asked a couple months back (when I signed-up for the track day) right here on NICO if a Big Brake Kit would be necessary. Everyone told me that Brembos + pads would be sufficient.

Lastly, I think this was a bad track to start on. It is very stressful for the brakes, tires and engine. It is similar to a "street track", like the Monaco F1 circuit. However, I have learned a lot and I haven't given up... yet. I plan to go again as soon as the car's fixed.

I just wanted to let people know of my misfortune and experience. If someone had posted something similar on NICO before I would've prepared better and not relied on OEM "reliability".

Afterall, the brakes and tires are still okay. With all the punishment they took, they're still in one piece. The engine, however, is not. I really trusted Nissan's reliability record. This may have put a big dent in my impression with Japanese manufacturers. Honda claim up and down that their VTEC systems have never gone wrong... well... I am waiting for Nissan's claim. Because the VQ35DE left me hanging for 6 hours in a foreign country waiting for a goddamned tow truck. (It took 6 hours to find someone who spoke English, called a mechanic, determined that the car is unfixable on the spot, find an English speaking towing company and get it the hell back to my country).

My advice to anyone: if you're going on a track day, no matter what car you have, get tires and get brakes. You'll need 'em more than ANY extra power. Dump the NOS kit, dump the supercharger, buy the Big Brake Kit and get some slicks, 'cause the supercharged 350Z will be left in your rear view mirror when his brakes overheat.

P.S. My troubles occured using the car in 20 minute segments on the track, then letting it cool down for more than 40 minutes. As I said in my first post, the car was inspected to be in perfect shape by a Nissan dealer, it is almost brand new, 15000 miles, never driven in winter and never raced or tracked before.

[bmike818]

OP I always find your posts interesting. Thanks for sharing. Sorry to hear about your troubles. I am very jealouse that you were able to drive your Z on an F1 track

[C-Kwik]

I was driving a manual, and yes, sometimes I had the misfortune to mis-time the shifts and had to downchange during the turn.Quote »

I understand its your first time out, so its fine. But you really need to learn to heel-toe downshift. That alone will take care of the shifting in turns and mis-timing bit as you'll be in the right gear by the time you finish braking. Seriously though, once you learn the technique properly and understand when to use it, you'll know what I mean.

I had understeer and oversteer, mainly thanks to not being able to keep the racing line. I was sometimes intimidated by the other cars. I was warned beforehand by a track marshall that the people who come to race are (and I'm quoting a man who must've seen it all) "f-ing insane". There were 3 crashes on that day that were 100% avoidable had the drivers paid more attention to what was behind them and to their side.

Also, my braking points and turning points were all done with safety in mind. After noticing how inadequete my tires and brakes were, I was a little scared to punish them further.

It might have been that the track event you attended was not well catered to beginners. All the ones I've attended had beginner groups where no passing was allowed except in certain areas (long straights) after the driver in front acknowledges the person behind wants to pass.

In any case, if you find yourself intimidated, give yourself room. Let all the faster drivers by.

As for the inadequacies of brakes and tires, I have to wonder if most of that was due to trying to overdrive the car. Try scrubbing off more speed before a turn and exit smoother as I mentioned before. If you must drive below the tire's maximum grip,err on the slow side. A tire's maximum grip occurs at a specific slip angle. If you exceed the slip angle, the amount of lateral acceleration will be the same as if you took at a lower slip angle (by driving slower). The BIG difference is, driving at the higher slip angle will heat up your tires more. Its something a lot of first timers do. Driving slower and working up to the maximum slip angle is much more productive than overdriving the car. And its easy to say the tires are just not up to it. And its true. But who is to say that if you put slicks on, you won't overdrive those either. Don't try to drive at everyone else's pace. All cars handle differently. Work on your skills. Then work on increasing the car's performance. When it comes down to it, the driver is the most important part of a car's handling.

The brake pedal was not hard, and the pedal sunk... so I guess the liquid was boiling. This is why I asked a couple months back (when I signed-up for the track day) right here on NICO if a Big Brake Kit would be necessary. Everyone told me that Brembos + pads would be sufficient.

Yeah, that sounds like fluid boil. Did you happen to change the fluid recently? Old fluid will have absorbed water and the boiling point will be lower. Most people who go to the track flush (not just bleed) their brake fluid before and after each event. After is especially important if you boiled any fluid (so you'll likely want to do yours). Typically a good DOT 4 fluid (or its EU equivalent) should be fine.

I suspect old fluid would be the problem for you. While brake rotor and pad temperatures can easily get up to some 800 degrees F during hard use (sometimes higher), calipers run quite a bit cooler. Pistons are typically stainless steel which transfers heat rather slowly for a metal and its hollow cylindrical shape will act as a heat dam. Not to mention the aluminum Brembos are going to be shedding quite a bit of heat as aluminum is a better heat conducter and it will have a much larger surface area than the pistons that are in it. DOT 3 fluid has a dry boiling point of about 400 degrees F. But if it becomes contaminated with water, it can easily drop the boiling points to 284 degrees F. That's not much higher than the boiling point of water (40 degrees C difference). The Z's Brembos are fairly large and thick. Its sized similar to smaller BBK's. I really doubt the hardware itself is undersized. Keeping in mind that the Forum Owner is running a supercharged G35 (heavier than the Z) that uses the same Brembos and he has run it at the track without any braking problems (to my knowledge). He lives in AZ too...but I'm not sure if he ran it on one of the hetter days of the year or not.

[JDMZ32]

sorry to hear about your problems and i hope it gets worked out. i bet that would've been a great event for you if everything went as planned.

[JETPILOT]

The OEM Brembo's limits can be found quite easilly on a road course with the best race pads and fresh high temp type 4 fluid.

You found the limits of the NISSAN OEM brake fluid which is worthless for drivng on a road course.

I don't know what pads you have, but for a road race course you will need a race pad, and not a combo pad.

Once you get some good type 4 fluid in there and a great pad like the HAWK DTC-70 you will see how much more effort it wil ltake to overheat the OEM Brembo's. It can be doe, but it will be much harder.

NICO isn't the best place to come to ask questions about road racing! Obvious to you now.

[spitalul2bad]

I just got off the phone with Nissan. They told me a piston (or more probably a rod) had melted and ended up in the oil pan. Does that sound normal? Not to me. They said that Nissan Romania (not my dealership, but the country's main office) will decide if they repair the engine or replace it whole under warranty... or not. I am supposed to get a call-back on monday to see what they said.

If this requires another engine, it's gonna take A LOT until I get back on the street again. I already miss driving the car.

[JETPILOT]

They won't build you a new engine. It is much more labor intensive and cost efficient than putting in a new shortblock/longblock. These engines are not like Chevy of Ford motors. The dual overhead cams and front timing mechanicals make the job of putting one together a PITB. They are really built like they were meant to be disposed of than repaired. When people ran into oil consumtion issues they replaced the shortblock. It's much easier.

[spitalul2bad]

Update: I need a new engine. I will be taking pictures tomorrow and will square off with Nissan as to make sure they cover it fully under warranty.

[Watermelonwarrior]

My advice to anyone: if you're going on a track day, no matter what car you have, get tires and get brakes. You'll need 'em more than ANY extra power. Dump the NOS kit, dump the supercharger, buy the Big Brake Kit and get some slicks, 'cause the supercharged 350Z will be left in your rear view mirror when his brakes overheat.

Great advice but I don't have 5k to spend on a track day. I just flushed the brake fluid and got better pads and I was fine. Was able to keep up with an E46 M3 for the most part. I'm not sure what you wanted exactly. If you were looking for advice you should have came on here saying "I don't care how much I spend I want to have the best track day I possibly can." and im sure you would have got people to recommend bbk and tires. I wouldn't recommend them for a first day. I think tires should come later on. I would recommend getting used to the cars stock set up before investing in tires. I would say brake fluid, brake pads, and to study the track ahead of time.