Just wanted to toss these ideas out to you guys for some feedback...I was toying around with the idea of tossing a centrifugal supercharger on my Q the other week, and started taking measurements and mocking things up with a spare Vortech head unit, and after a cursory inspection, I was thinking of something along the following lines:
- The battery will be relocated to the trunk... and the main fusebox will either need to be rotated 90deg for more clearance, or better yet, an aftermarket, multi-circuit fusebox can be adapted to replace the bulky oem unit (of course some minor wiring work will need to be done, but going this route will give you a good 4" additional clearance between the sc and strut tower).
- The sc will need to be mounted to a plate with a "through-drive," where the crank pulley spins a pulley connected by a through shaft to another pulley, which then spins the blower's pulley. This is always a convoluted way to go, but appears to be necessary given the tight confines of that area of the engine bay. A shallow flower pot style air filter can be affixed to the sc's inlet, nestling right up against the back of the headlight housing.
- The stock clutch fan and shroud will be replaced with a dual electric setup with shroud mounted low on the radiator, giving room to run the charge pipe from the sc outlet into the intercooler, located where the stock air box would be. This pipe runs straight across, and is level with the top edge of the back of the radiator top end tank... it should clear the upper radiator hose (not a biggie to deal with either way).
- The intercooler will reside where the stock air box was... huge amounts of room in this well when all plastic is removed. Ic will be a water-cooled unit, and inlet will be straight in from the charge pipe, with a bov flange attached to the ic inlet end tank. The ic's outlet end tank will be sheet metal, with the actual outlet matching the MAF's inlet. MAF will be bolted to this "plate," and is placed well within stretching range of the stock MAF wiring... no need to hack it.
- Outlet piping from MAF will have one bend in it, and lead into the throttle body, with a silicone hose bend... and that's pretty much it.
This was all just off the top of my head, so I'm not sure if anyone else has tried a similar set up before...? It appears that most people have been leaning more towards running an eaton-style sc on their Qs, but I figured a centrifugal unit would be a much more "bolt-on" solution for simple forced induction. I would continue pursuing this, but I've made the decision this past weekend to instead concentrate on building up another motor for another project... so I just wanted to toss these ideas out there and see if you guys could give me your thoughts so I could refine this "future project" for implementation in the...well...future. Thanks in advance.
Feedback on centrifugal supercharger ideas...
-
one ton garage
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:16 pm
- Contact:
OTG... I'm with you as far as a centrifugal supercharger goes. It'd be nice to see the "Rolex" of all engines manifold (thanks for that one Ryan), not to mention the intake air would be much cooler. In going with a setup like this we'd be looking less custom machine work (aka the manifold). On the flipside though there are the issues you brought up of fitment.
The pulley setup you speak of is rather complex, but that's not to say it couldn't work. It'd be nice however if we could find a way to simplify it... I won't be of much help here though, I'm 1500 miles away from my car
.
As far as the mounting bracket/plate goes, I can fab that and get us a price quote in less than an hour if you can figure out the dimensions.
Sorry If I missed something, but where abouts have you planned for the filter to go?
I don't have too many connections as far as mandrel bent piping goes... don't suppose you do? Finding someone to do the piping is KEY.
Just to guesstimate the costs:
$1000-$1500 Vortech SuperCharger$800 Air to Water Intercooler$800 Custom JWT ECU$500 Piping$300 Custom Pulley's$200 Gauges$150 BOV$100 Mounting Bracket$80 Iridium Spark Plugs$70 Belts================$4200 Total
I'll edit these numbers as we gain more accurate information.
Your idea seams 100% viable. Lets just polish out the kinks and go from there. Maybe it'll make for some good competition vs. the Eaton setup we've been talking about for so long
.
There are currently 2-3 of us searching for a supercharger setup. The deal with myself is I have to spend the cash on a supercharger for my Q before I blow it on a JDM 300ZX TT :pface .
Corey
The pulley setup you speak of is rather complex, but that's not to say it couldn't work. It'd be nice however if we could find a way to simplify it... I won't be of much help here though, I'm 1500 miles away from my car
.As far as the mounting bracket/plate goes, I can fab that and get us a price quote in less than an hour if you can figure out the dimensions.
Sorry If I missed something, but where abouts have you planned for the filter to go?
I don't have too many connections as far as mandrel bent piping goes... don't suppose you do? Finding someone to do the piping is KEY.
Just to guesstimate the costs:
$1000-$1500 Vortech SuperCharger$800 Air to Water Intercooler$800 Custom JWT ECU$500 Piping$300 Custom Pulley's$200 Gauges$150 BOV$100 Mounting Bracket$80 Iridium Spark Plugs$70 Belts================$4200 Total
I'll edit these numbers as we gain more accurate information.
Your idea seams 100% viable. Lets just polish out the kinks and go from there. Maybe it'll make for some good competition vs. the Eaton setup we've been talking about for so long
.There are currently 2-3 of us searching for a supercharger setup. The deal with myself is I have to spend the cash on a supercharger for my Q before I blow it on a JDM 300ZX TT :pface .
Corey
-
HeavyDuty
- Posts: 1281
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:51 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
95 Nissan 240SX S14
96 Nissan D21
06 Nissan 350Z Z33
If I can get the pic post to work, this is what I see in your drawings:
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....=4733
Dammit! I don't understand why that doesn't work anymore.
Oh well, anyway.
The only comment I have is with respect to a draw though MAF being used in a blow through environment. Easy fix at this stage. I know people run them in this fashion, but on a street car I prefer draw through.
I would think you'd want the bov to recirculate on this app as well.
Dennis posted about current draw from electric fans on this car and possible gremlins, but you could work around that, too.
Mandrel bent piping sections in whatever material and angle you want are easy to obtain from bentpipes.com Make your pipes, send them back to bentpipes & they will build a jig for a nominal service charge.
One comment on the Rolex title. Aren't they known for being beautiful but keep horrible time?
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....=4733
Dammit! I don't understand why that doesn't work anymore.
Oh well, anyway.
The only comment I have is with respect to a draw though MAF being used in a blow through environment. Easy fix at this stage. I know people run them in this fashion, but on a street car I prefer draw through.
I would think you'd want the bov to recirculate on this app as well.
Dennis posted about current draw from electric fans on this car and possible gremlins, but you could work around that, too.
Mandrel bent piping sections in whatever material and angle you want are easy to obtain from bentpipes.com Make your pipes, send them back to bentpipes & they will build a jig for a nominal service charge.
One comment on the Rolex title. Aren't they known for being beautiful but keep horrible time?
-
Jeff Williams
- Posts: 3394
- Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:17 am
- Car: 1994 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti I30t
2004 Infiniti M45
71, 72, 73, 82 & 2000 Corvettes - Contact:
Nice clean idea. I mentioned this before, and was thoroughly flogged by other members. I hope it doesn't happen again.
I like the (relative) ease of installation/removal, compared to a roots-type unit.
It would be nice to be able to leave the fuse box alone, and possiblygetting some fresh air from the bumper area, or lower grille area, and move the unit forward a bit. Possibly a 90 down to the lower area, and put the filter behind the driving light.
I like the (relative) ease of installation/removal, compared to a roots-type unit.
It would be nice to be able to leave the fuse box alone, and possiblygetting some fresh air from the bumper area, or lower grille area, and move the unit forward a bit. Possibly a 90 down to the lower area, and put the filter behind the driving light.
-
Ghettokracker71
- Posts: 348
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:12 am
Suggestion: Use a clutch-type blower. Just like an A/C pump where the pulley is magnectic,and when the unit has an electrical charge the A/C pump is driven,but when it doesn't, the pulley is just idle therefore no boost. If you want to save on gas for like a trip,or rev at the civic next to you....well,its just nice to have boost on a switch as opposed to always on.
-
one ton garage
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:16 pm
- Contact:
The setup shown in that stang is almost exactly what I had in mind... none of this is really new, but I just couldn't find any pertinent info in regards to running a setup like this in a Q, so I was hoping to get some info from you guys... or better yet, since it was mentioned that there are centri superchargers in Qs already, I'd love to see pics! I was doing a search before, and came across a guy from australia whose handle was AGM pr ASM I believe... he posted links to pics he had of his engine bay before, but the link is now defunct. If someone has pics of that I'd love to see them!
Oh yah, and about the drive system for the sc, it's actually not as bad and complex as it sounds. It's almost de rigeur for a lot of the modern sc systems built for newer cars with their tight engine bays. You can see such a setup on this kit made for the Z33 350Z:http://www.automotiveforums.co....htmlSince the sc's own pulley can't be placed in line with the drive pulley, an extra pulley is used to transfer the motion to the sc.
And this is sorta a mish-mosh image of what I had in mind in the engine bay:
Oh yah, and about the drive system for the sc, it's actually not as bad and complex as it sounds. It's almost de rigeur for a lot of the modern sc systems built for newer cars with their tight engine bays. You can see such a setup on this kit made for the Z33 350Z:http://www.automotiveforums.co....htmlSince the sc's own pulley can't be placed in line with the drive pulley, an extra pulley is used to transfer the motion to the sc.
And this is sorta a mish-mosh image of what I had in mind in the engine bay:
I'm definetely more apt to spend my money on this setup. Having that ugly eaton sit over my beautiful VH was really erking me on that setup... I want my beautiful VH being covered by a FSTB not an ugly eaton... Not to mention the eaton is nice down low, but kind of craps out at higher rpm... I would rather have a turbo, or a this setup, which acts like a turbo.
Gimmie
Gimmie
Quote »How will power compare to that of our eaton supercharger setup???[/quote] Well, it should be cheaper seeing as though we won't have to add in the expense of a custom manifold. The eaton superchargers are much cheaper than these centrifugal superchargers however.
Quote »So with this setup, assuming similar boosts (say +- 1psi) we'll still be looking at 400RWHP?[/quote] This would depend on RPMs. It should make more peak horsepower than the roots style supercharger and less down low.
Quote »But it will still help downlow, correct....[/quote] IMO, it won't help much downlow if at all. I'd imagine you'd start to feel the boost around 2.5k RPMs depending on what type of supercharger we go with. Keep in mind though you won't be losing nor gaining much hp under these RPMs. Therefore gas milage shouldn't be affected much while cruising. Keep in mind we probably would've had the Eaton setup kick in around 2.2k RPMs. We're not far off our goal here... Say you're about to run the quarter. You rev the engine to 2k while braking, let go of the brakes and hit the throttle when the tree lights up... you hit 3k with little wheel spin and then the boost starts to kick in. Before you know it you've shifted into second and you'll never see anything below 3.5-4k rpms again...
Quote »Sexy, huh?[/quote] I'm shatting myself... that thing's gorgeous... does it have a BOV or a bypass valve? Does it have an intercooler hidden underneath it (doesn't look like it, but had to ask)? I haven't talked to Ash in a long time, nor have I seen him around... hope he's been doing alright.
Corey
Quote »So with this setup, assuming similar boosts (say +- 1psi) we'll still be looking at 400RWHP?[/quote] This would depend on RPMs. It should make more peak horsepower than the roots style supercharger and less down low.
Quote »But it will still help downlow, correct....[/quote] IMO, it won't help much downlow if at all. I'd imagine you'd start to feel the boost around 2.5k RPMs depending on what type of supercharger we go with. Keep in mind though you won't be losing nor gaining much hp under these RPMs. Therefore gas milage shouldn't be affected much while cruising. Keep in mind we probably would've had the Eaton setup kick in around 2.2k RPMs. We're not far off our goal here... Say you're about to run the quarter. You rev the engine to 2k while braking, let go of the brakes and hit the throttle when the tree lights up... you hit 3k with little wheel spin and then the boost starts to kick in. Before you know it you've shifted into second and you'll never see anything below 3.5-4k rpms again...
Quote »Sexy, huh?[/quote] I'm shatting myself... that thing's gorgeous... does it have a BOV or a bypass valve? Does it have an intercooler hidden underneath it (doesn't look like it, but had to ask)? I haven't talked to Ash in a long time, nor have I seen him around... hope he's been doing alright.
Corey
I'll be ready to take the plunge in abouts a month, as I want to have my car first... plenty of time to get the details sorted out. Will anyone else be in on a centrifugal setup by then (assuming total cost is under $4500USD). Installation shouldn't be a problem either, in this case. Any do it yourselfer should be able to handle it, so we're less an install charge too.
Corey
Corey
All we'd need to fab is piping, pullies and a mounting bracket. Though we'd still have to decide which size/make/etc supercharger and intercooler to go with.elwesso wrote:So basically, we have everything we need except the custom piping (no big deal)....
This seems like the obvious choice to me....
Corey
-
elwesso
- Posts: 30810
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:52 pm
- Car: 94 Infiniti Q45t 5 spd
2007 BMW M Coupe
2007 Infiniti G35 S 6MT - Location: Indiana
- Contact:
Ebay seems to be the way...
Again, I think we could do without a JWT right now.....all that would be doing is making it richer basically, while it may not be optimal, we could rig osmething that works...
If this works, Ill get us a SMOKING deal on iridium plugs, probbaly aorund my same price of $55
I think if we could narrow it down to say 3 brands, we can ebay it and see what we can get cheapest.
If this thing will let me do a burnout like a 4.08 rearend will do with the stock gears (by then if it happens ill have a 90-93 transmission) , then ill be a very happy camper.... 300hp and only getting 2 spins on my Q isnt acceptabel...
If we know what we need, I know someone who does CAD/CAM and CNC stuff, and he said he'd do it for us as a "school project" so price would be minimal.......
If we can get 400+RWHP and still get 22mpg on the highway, I think we will have a perfect setup!
Again, I think we could do without a JWT right now.....all that would be doing is making it richer basically, while it may not be optimal, we could rig osmething that works...
If this works, Ill get us a SMOKING deal on iridium plugs, probbaly aorund my same price of $55
I think if we could narrow it down to say 3 brands, we can ebay it and see what we can get cheapest.
If this thing will let me do a burnout like a 4.08 rearend will do with the stock gears (by then if it happens ill have a 90-93 transmission) , then ill be a very happy camper.... 300hp and only getting 2 spins on my Q isnt acceptabel...
If we know what we need, I know someone who does CAD/CAM and CNC stuff, and he said he'd do it for us as a "school project" so price would be minimal.......
If we can get 400+RWHP and still get 22mpg on the highway, I think we will have a perfect setup!