Factory Remanufactured Engine- how reliable

[longrunQ]

Has anyone ever installed a factory remanufactured engine in a first gen Q? I was wondering how reliable they should be expected to be. I mean, is it basically a new engine?

The infiniti dealership in my state ( the only one) will sell me a factory remanned engine for my 91q for $5500 and install it for about $1200. At $6700, its more than the highest estimate I've ever heard for putting a used engine but I am guessing that it will be basically new and go another 200k miles. I also believe that it will have a warranty unlike the used engines.

Is this a good move or should I cut my losses and part out the car?. Everything else is in pretty much excellent condition.

Finally, If I am spending $6700 to put an engine in my car, what kind of warranty should I demand before commiting to it?

[DAEDALUS]

Don't know the answer, but I'm blown away at the $1200 install quote! For the engine to last 200k, it would need to have pretty much brand new internals...crankshaft, conrods, rings, valves, guides, seals, springs, retainers, etc. Almost a new longblock, but with the added labor of disassembly before the assembly. I'd surely like to know more about it.

[AZhitman]

I'd be curious (like DAE) about the factory reman process. Wonder if Infiniti could give you a rundown of what they do to the engine?

I'm checking a price here for you as I type - I'll have some numbers in a little while...

[longrunQ]

I believe that the $5500 already has all the internals done. The $1200 will just be to put it in. Its actually $1500 but he said he would cut me a deal if I bought the remanned engine from them

[DAEDALUS]

I understand, but $5500 sounds amazingly cheap if it includes all new internals. Labor aside, the wholesale quote on the parts alone could constitute most or all of that number, depending on what actually gets replaced. The labor in a to-spec rebuild is by no means insignificant. 32 valves! Each one with a new guide and each one carefully reamed to within about .001"!

[longrunQ]

thanks AZhitman,

I would be interested in knowing the process of remanufacturing an engine at infiniti.

[longrunQ]

$5500 cheap? for a remanufactured engine?

WOW! I must have been on another planet. A rebuilt chevy engine is like $2500 installed. A brand new toyota avalon engine is maybe $7000 installed.

I dont think that $5500 is cheap for a remanufactured engine.

[longrunQ]

I also think that they just order the remanned engine from infiniti, not do it themselves, but I might be mistaken.

[AZhitman]

longrun: Consider that to rebuild a VH45DE, the WHOLESALE cost of parts alone, PLUS labor at $65/hour, is estimated at around $12,000. There's another thread here that discusses it, and is itemized... Not sure of the location of it.

That's why a low-mileage take-out is more attractive - Keep an eye on eBay.

[longrunQ]

Azhitman, do you know a website where I can get info on the remanned engine?

I am guessing that if infiniti does it, they would just take a bad engine apart and replace what is broken and what is needed, not all of it.

Anyhow, I dont want to mess with used takeouts. No one knows how many miles they really have on them, and one cant tell what would break the day after spending $5000 on an install. Too risky for my blood.

[Q45tech]

What I don't understand is the low labor cost. We need 3 days 26-30 real hours [$2,040 at 68/hr] to remove, swap parts [injectors, sensors, etc, etc] , reinstall.

We give a 12month /12,000 mile warranty on all our [supplied by us] used engine replacements........yet to my knowledge none have failed since we started this process in 1997.........but we do lose track of customers..............why we are extremely picky about which engines we take and which ones get rejected.

Our most voluminous swaps are for the Lexus [Camary] ES300 [V6] from following 5,000-7500-10,000 mile oil changes.

There are independent companies in US that sell partially remanned Q engines .........everyone we have tried to use had problems and ultimately got pulled out and sent back for credit...........their warranty only pays $50 [x 15] an hour so the customers who supplied these engines got reamed paying double.

[AZhitman]

longrun:

According to Joe at Infiniti of Scottsdale, a factory reman for a 91 is NOT available... Call your dealer back and ask for a part number or a reference number, as Joe will be calling me back soon.

Also, is yours a TCS car or not?

Fred's engine is still available, I think....

[longrunQ]

AZhitman,

thanks for helping a man out, man! I called the dealership and they still have not called me back. I'll get that info for you if they ever do. My car is not a TCS car.

Q45tech,I know it costs $6000 to get a rebuilt engine at your place. How do people get the cars out to you? If you are in Atlanta and I am in backwoods AR it would be a financial nightmare to ship there and back.

Also, what would I have to do to get a 2 year/24,000 mile warranty from you? Extra money ? etc These are problems that need to be worked out if I will fix it in ATL. Other than the fact that I know you will want to fix all the little things that I can live with but cost hundreds to fix like my steering rack.

[AZhitman]

longrun: Just got confirmation from Joe that there is NO factory reman available for ANY 90-96 Q. What you're likely getting is a freshened-up imported takeout motor (they do new external seals) with an uncertain history.

Joe says he can sell you a BRAND NEW VH45DE. His cost is $6500, he'll sell to a NICO member for $7500, and the retail price is $8609. Add another $175 to ship. You can flip your core for $200 for the aluminum alone.

Hope this helps - I'd call that dealership and start asking some tough questions, because it sounds like they're misrepresenting their product - It's not remanned by Infiniti.

[AZhitman]

p.s. Shipping isn't THAT bad - like I said, Joe ships engines for $175 (or less) nationwide.

[longrunQ]

thanks a bunch Azhitman. I am more inclined to believe you and joe than to believe the dealership. I spoke to them only once and since there is no "factory" remanned, I am almost sure that the engine would be a freshened up import.

Do you know what kind of warranty they have on their brand new engines? It sounds very exciting but also cost prohibitive. I am looking at almost $9,500 to do this. I know it will last a long time and all (assuming that the chain guides are the good ones and the techs do a good job of the install) but I can get a 98 honda accord with absolutely flawless reliability for less than that. I was hoping to save a little money from not buying an accord and still keep my beloved q, if you know what I am saying.

I guess I'll look around. Maybe I'll find somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who can get me the brand new engine at cost as a favor. Miracles happen.

[Q45tech]

These are just long blocks? I assume?

[longrunQ]

does it make a difference if its a long block or not?What IS a long block?

[AZhitman]

Long block is the engine WITH all peripherals. Intake, heads, etc.

Cost to Joe is only $1K less than he'd sell to me for....

I'd consider Fred's engine. Seriously.

[AZhitman]

Pisses me off that a dealership would intentionally mislead customers.

Perhaps you go for the deal, then turn around and nail them on their misrepresentation and get Infiniti Corporate to "hush" you up by reimbursing the motor cost...

I'd call someone in charge there at the dealership and pitch a fit either way.

[longrunQ]

do you really think that could work? I know some people could pull it off, but I doubt that I could.

Yes, I almost bought Fred's engine, but he tried to charge me extra because he found out that the shipping would not cost as much as previously thought ( in the final analysis it would have), and I backed down on principle. Not to say that I would not do the same thing if I was the seller and found out that shipping would be cheaper. Also, I dont know what I would do if for some reason it did not work. I would be out of $3500, the dealership would take no responsibility, and the seller would take no responsibility.

[DAEDALUS]

A short block, in comparison, is just the main machined engine casting, along with crankshaft, pistons and conrods installed. No heads, no chains, no oil pan, no starter. Long blocks sometimes include the intake, often not. It would have to include the injectors and knock sensors if the intake is on there. I doubt it includes the alternator, PS pump, AC compressor...maybe the water pump.

[Q45tech]

A long block is just the block and heads [valve covers, oil pan, exhaust manifolds, and water pump may or may not be included -usually not]. No plenum, no injectors, no crankangle sensor, no ignition , no plug coils, no harnesses, no EGR, etc,etc.

This is what we end up with in a Japanese take out! We remove the Jap only exhaust headers and substitute the old US spec headers [new gaskets] and swap the plenum from the old engine to the newer one [new hoses ks and harness] new water pump new front and rear main seals, new motor mounts, and reseal the valve covers and check for new chain guides.

The above cost more [in labor charges and parts] than the Japanese takeout [$1500-$2,000] delivered to our shop. Then the $2000 reinstall.

Failing to do all or some of the above R&R is where shops make money..........the more they skip, the more they make, after all the engine will probably last 12,000 miles as received.

I really wouldn't recommend an engine swap on a 90-93 any longer..........as you can find another better maintained car for the $6,000 and the $1,000 you'll get as a junker.

Now if you have just paid $3,000 for a new transmission and monies for other repair work recently, it might make sense but with the $2500 per year other expense it will take 6 years to prorate the new expense............and still keep the annual cost under $4000 plus gas and insurance.

[AZhitman]

I disagree.

I know Fred pretty well, and I think he's a man of high integrity and principle. He's experienced a situation much like you describe, and I think (actually, I know) he'd do the honorable thing for another person (especially now that he's been in those shoes).

I guess I'm saying if I was in your situation, I'd have no qualms with buying his motor (and having a NICO member install it at a discounted rate).

I'd still call the Gm of the dealership and bust big on them - Maybe they'll hook you up for the (averted) catastrophe.

[longrunQ]

q45tech,

Thanks for the advice. Its looking more and more like I should put my efforts elsewhere. Its just that every time I look at it, I see the pure beauty that attracted me to it in the first place. I mean, in and out, that car is classy.

Where in the world does one get $1000 for a junker though? I might have to put this thing on ebay. If I can get $800, I'll be happy.

[longrunQ]

I like Fred a lot too.Tha'ts why I was extremely suprised that he would try to make an extra buck off me from the agreed price, and what he would be capable of doing if he already tried to do that. THAT scared me, especially since I dont know if his old car was in a front end collision or not.

[maxnix]

I really wouldn't recommend an engine swap on a 90-93 any longer..........as you can find another better maintained car for the $6,000 and the $1,000 you'll get as a junker.

I think this is the definitve analysis, unless your car is other wise perfect (i.e. - totally up to date with continuous maintenance).

One thing that is undeniable is that the Q45s became more reliable (and had more amenities within a model type) the longer they were in production.

While buying any used car is a risk, a newer model (and a better maintained one) minimizes this risk.

[Q45tech]

We pay $500-$1000 for blown Q but you gotta deliver it to us in Atlanta.

Getting a 2 year 24k warranty would require you to move to Atlanta where we would want to see the car every 90 days and you would be required to do everything we say [pay for 90 day oil /filter changes use MOA].............guess we would add another $1,000 to the bill.....[20% of our potential losses]...... we would pull the pan and examine a few bearings, etc before offering it on a particular engine. If you allowed an over heat [heads above 230F] [failed rad or hose,fan etc,] all bets are off even on the basic 12/12...........we install special temperature sensitive seals which are serial numbered.

But you have to understand that unless we replaced all accessory parts which you would have to pay for, we could not assume resposibility on any part other than the block or heads/ internals that were reused from your old engine........same with a used oil pump you would need to pay another $400 for that alone. Same with wrecks the warranty stops at the moment of contact.

I doubt that any sane shop would offer more than 12/12.But we would gamble on our work based on our history.

Based on what I have heard out of the 50,000 engines produced [90-93Q] all but around 40 lasted 70,000 miles and 6 years 80/50000=99.92% probably an order of magnitude less than they wanted but pretty good for their first V8.........most of the failures were over heats and people who didn't bring them in every 90 days

[Q45tech]

Naughty Naughty Picture deleted we don't allow non Infinti picture especially in this forum. In fact we discourage too much discussion of other makes even Nissan's in Infiniti Mechanic.

[AZhitman]

Dennis, send me the pic - I'll get it up here (I'm curious as to what it was...):D

longrun, IIRC Fred's car was a light collision down both sides (sliding longways impact with a guardrail/barrier). I'd have faith in that motor, as well as any low-mileage takeout you can find. Problem is, there aren't many 90-93 Q's with low miles out there still...

As much as I hate to say it, it sounds like you might want to truck the old gal down to T3, collect your $1K, and go shopping... Sad to see it come to that though.