http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/18/autos/e ... tml?iid=EL"This results in cars that meet emissions standards in the laboratory or testing station, but during normal operation, emit nitrogen oxides at up to 40 times the standard."
Wait, so you like the idea that VW is polluting the air?MinisterofDOOM wrote:To be perfectly honest:
HIGH FIVE VOLKSWAGEN, AG!!!!!
The EPA/CARB legislation in question is all bullsh*t anyway. Arbitrary nonsense, even if you do believe in its purpose. Maybe a huge corporation cheating on your legislation is a strong sign that it's fatally broken. But, of course, nobody on the EPA side will ever have enough clarity to see it that way. I wish MORE automakers would do this. Swallow the fines and break the rules. Laws that can't be enforced carry no authority, so I'd love to see this spread. Imagine if every automaker selling in the U.S. gave the EPA the middle finger and just did what they wanted? Sure, slap fines on everyone, see what happens. It's a trap.
I've never been a big (modern) VW fan, but I love the Hell out of this. It makes me so happy.
I can't say I take particular issue with it. It's not like that's a new problem or one unique to VW. It take FAR more issue with the fact that the laws they broke existed in the first place.darylzero wrote:Wait, so you like the idea that VW is polluting the air?
The fact that that's how it works is sort of the core of my viewpoint. A messed-up, power-hungry, legislation-crazy state of greenies has an opinion and that means an entire industry gets changed? To Hell with that. California can take a hike. There's more to the universe than California and their (generally broken and fearmongering) opinions. If I were an automaker I'd quite happily give Cali the middle finger and sell everywhere else on earth instead. Yes, their population is huge and, yes, there are tons of sales there. There are also plenty of other markets to sell in.darylzero wrote:If this story is true then California may never let VW's back in their state lol
I agree Cali is messed up with a lot it it's laws. With the emissions though, I think California is correct. I don't live there, but I have been there and the smog can get insane from all the cars.MinisterofDOOM wrote:The fact that that's how it works is sort of the core of my viewpoint. A messed-up, power-hungry, legislation-crazy state of greenies has an opinion and that means an entire industry gets changed? To Hell with that. California can take a hike. There's more to the universe than California and their (generally broken and fearmongering) opinions. If I were an automaker I'd quite happily give Cali the middle finger and sell everywhere else on earth instead. Yes, their population is huge and, yes, there are tons of sales there. There are also plenty of other markets to sell in.
OriginalWheelman wrote:
Exactly. Yes, GM's fines were big for the ignition switch thing, but the frequency was low, and the fix/recall was cheap and easy.nchopp wrote:This is going to be huge, me thinks. VW may be well and truly hosed. This isn't an "oops", this is a "we set out to deceive and violate laws and got caught".
Agree that from the consumer's view, better gas mileage and performance are much more important than meeting emission requirements. But auto manufacturers are still required to meet those new emission requirements or they're not allowed to sell those cars in the US. Plain and simple. And we're not talking a minor cheat here, VW NOx emissions were up to 40 times over the required allowance. That's pretty big. If it turns out that VW's upcoming fix to the problem will significantly reduce power and economy (20% is estimated), I'm sure there will be plenty of owners that will no longer want their rolling coal cars if that's the case, and since resale values are expected to plummet, a buyback offer program seems logical, at least as one option. That could eliminate many of the upcoming civil lawsuits. As far as owners refusing to get the recall done, if it happens, I can imagine states with stricter emission laws, like California, could easily force you deal with it by refuse to allow residents to renew registration on their diesel-Dubs unless proven it was fixed. That means not complying could make your diesel Veedub an instant lawn ornament when the registration expires or you sell it to someone in a state that will let them register it..asoomal wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it....customers want a diesel that has good performance and better gas mileage.
Therefore, in order to meet those demands, while keeping costs low, they developed a system which somewhat "cheated" the tests.
Most customers would prefer better gas mileage over emissions anyways.
Would you rather pay MORE for LESS power and WORSE fuel economy?
Probably not.
With more power and better fuel economy, their customers can save more.
Now that's how you pass on the savings down to your customers.
Exactly what I was going to point out. You beat me to it, Jesda.Jesda wrote:With the ignition switch, GM fixed the part and quietly reused the part number without telling anyone.
With VW, they purposely committed an act of fraud from the very beginning.
VW touted "clean diesel", put stickers on cars that said such, and sold cars to VW owners (who are mostly hipsters that actually care about the environment) that were obviously supposed to be in compliance with emissions regulations at the time of sale. So no, they didn't directly ask VW to promise they meet emissions standards, because it is implied.MinisterofDOOM wrote: CUSTOMERS (the ones everyone is making out to be the victim here) never asked VW to promise any specific emissions standards.
Ou8roger2 wrote:Hello, I've joined your site because I had to post about this very interesting topic. These VW apologists make my eyes roll. It is indefensible to stick up for a company like VW who thinks their customers are too stupid to know or care about emissions, this company colluded from within to deliberately LIE and thumb their noses altogether at customers AND gov't regulators to make a profit, if that isn't dishonest then I'm the queen of England. What they did is beyond despicable and they deserve to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That stuff may fly in Europe but it's NOT OK here in the United States, and we have to make that CRYSTAL CLEAR to the big boys in Europe, we have to make an example of VW so the other car manufactures don't even think about trying to be cute in the future.
PapaSmurf2k3 wrote: I realize your beef is more with the EPA and their standards, but the fact remains that VW lied to their customers and the EPA about the product that they were building, and selling at a premium.
From what I've read, VW said they want to recall all 11 million cars. the problem is I don't think they have a fix that'll maintain their fuel mileage or power ratings. I still think Veedub'll end up buying back many of the half million US cars because if the fix results in lower mileage/power, VW will still risk lawsuits by disgruntled owners. Buying them back eliminates the lawsuits and makes it a one time charge... well unless they make insultingly low offers to buy them back.
