Engine Vibration

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Jeff Williams
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Got a BIG scare, this morning.

5 miles to the gas station, fill-up with premium Chevron, as usual.

14 miles later, while cruising at 78 mph, I start to feel a vibration, like a tire out of balance, or going flat. I kick off the cruise, and the vibration stops. I easily mash(Alabama term) the accelerator petal, vibration returns. Several test accelerations, and the vibration is evident, under acceleration. Now I am scared.

I slow down, activate the emergency flashers, and pull to the shoulder. While in park, I rev up the motor to 2500 RPM, vibration. No diagnostic, or check engine light, temp is fine. Now I am REALLY scared.

I stop the engine, open the hood (like I can do anything, on the side of the road, at 6:00 AM). The engine smells warm, so I touch the coolant cap. Warm. I release a little pressure, and shrug my shoulders. On restarting the engine, I notice there is no vibration. I go out to the engine and manually rev it up, wit hthe throttle cable. NO VIBRATION.

I close the hood, and decide to try to make it a couple of miles to the next exit. I merge into traffic, NO VIBRATION. 55 miles later, I am pulling into my office, trouble free.

What gives?

:confused:


juiceman
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Happened right after fill up

Water in gas? Dirt in fuel?

Was the gas cap on properly?

I would think it really had something to with the fill-up. Maybe a can of fuel additive to help dry ou tthe tank and clean the injectors. Maybe shutting off engine released the dirt that was clogging an injector

I am sure that more input will be given by others but a can of Techron additive can't hurt

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Jeff Williams
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Gas cap installed with 3 clicks, after tight, just like always.

I have added fuel injector cleaners in the past, but it has been about 4 or 5 tanks since then. I used my usual station, but the last tank was from a different Chevron. I was about at a quarter tank, when I filled up. (305 trouble-free miles)

I know I have the Bosch platinum +4 plugs, that are not recommended, and they have about 49,000 miles on them. I have a new set of NGK plugs, at the house, waiting for 60,000 miles to elapse.

I have cleaned the TB, but not removed, and cleaned.

The car has had 2500 gallons of non-stop Chevron premium gas, with about 100 gallons of Texaco premium gas, when the Chevron card is maxed out.

I did hit about 6,200 RPM, last night, about 2 miles from the house, on a WOT green light. That might have shaken loose some dirt.

I plan to do a TB cleaning, and Coolant flush, with my next oil change, on the 15th of June. I will add a couple of cans of cleaner in the next 7 tanks of fuel, before then.

Thanks for the info. And more is welcomed.:)

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Q451990
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The vibration you describe sure sounds like an injector crapping out (SC Term) :) to me... Did you feel the vibration at idle? I describe this more as a bouncing feeling, you can almost see the hood moving up and down. It's most noticeable at idle and under acceleration. Everything seems to smooth out when you let the engine coast.

The first time I felt it, turning the car off and on cured it. Then it just failed a few days later. I'd try to get a pressurized rail flush somewhere quick! If it's just trash on the screens, etc - that should cure you. If the coil insulation is breaking down then it's replacement time.

I'd go ahead and replace the plugs too, just to eliminate them as a potential cause.

Heath

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Q451990 wrote:I'd go ahead and replace the plugs too, just to eliminate them as a potential cause. - Heath
Yeah, the thought of broken electrodes floating around in any of my cylinders is not a comforting thought. Although I am sure this is not the cause of the described problem.

Makes carrying a spare injector or two in the trunk like Q45 seem like a good idea. Pulling a plenum would probably give me a two day pause anyway while I considered what else I should do, or more likely, have done.

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Jeff Williams
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Quote »The vibration you describe sure sounds like an injector crapping out (SC Term) to me... Did you feel the vibration at idle? I describe this more as a bouncing feeling, you can almost see the hood moving up and down. It's most noticeable at idle and under acceleration. Everything seems to smooth out when you let the engine coast.[/quote]That is EXACTLY what it felt like! I will check into the fuel rail flush, right now.

Does anyone know if this is something I can do myself (EX Race Car Builder)? I have an air compressor, and I have the mecahnical skills to remove the plenum. I just don't have the gaskets (possibly I can re-use the 10-year-old originals with 154,000 miles).

There must be some SC blood in me, because I used the "crappin' out" term to describe it to someone at the office, this morning.

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Jeff Williams wrote:Does anyone know if this is something I can do myself (EX Race Car Builder)? I have an air compressor, and I have the mechanical skills to remove the plenum.
Daedalus has an exposé in the Infiniti Online Mechanic (I mean Technician) Forum.

Plenum removal not necessary for rail flush. Fuel filter replacement is a good idea.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t

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Jeff Williams
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Quote »Daedalus has an exposé in the Infiniti Online Mechanic (I mean Technician) Forum.[/quote]I checked with my Nissan mechanic, He is getting th BG guy out next week to demo the fuel rail flush, and transmission flush systems. I also called the local Infiniti dealership, to schedule the rail flush and power balance. Hopefully, it won't cost more than the $90.00 in the other threads.

I LOVE search engine, but forget to use it every time I post a question.

Thanks for the help!

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Jeff Williams wrote:I checked with my Nissan mechanic, He is getting th BG guy out next week to demo the fuel rail flush, and transmission flush systems.
Volunteer to be a Guinea Pig!__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t

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PalmerWMD
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Your symptoms are classical for having an injector go out.At first you will ahve many momments when everything is fine but it will get worse and worse.

Fred...:)

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Jeff Williams
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Quote »Your symptoms are classical for having an injector go out.[/quote]I have heard that the fuel injectors were a problem in the 1Gen Q, but I thought it was fixed, by '94. Wasn't there a kit out to replace all the injectors?

The dealership should be able to diagnose a bad injector. I am sure it is hard to find one bad, if it keeps going in and out.

Thanks for the help

Quote »Volunteer to be a Guinea Pig![/quote]

I did offer to be the test car for the flush system. He is going to call me.

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PalmerWMD
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Jeff Williams wrote:I have heard that the fuel injectors were a problem in the 1Gen Q, but I thought it was fixed, by '94. Wasn't there a kit out to replace all the injectors?


The 94 and up injectors are much more resistant to teh problems that reformulated gas causes.The first gen injectoirs were designed before reformulate dgas was on the market.

As a result the 94 and up injectors are more resistant but not bulletproof.

Fred..:)

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The pressurized flush requires a special tool. I'm probably going to get one, but they cost about $200-300 depending on what you get. In your case you want to flush them immediately. After the flush, check out this page for the ohm test you need.

(sorry address edit requested by address site owner,admin)thumbs.dbainj1.jpg and forward...

railflush.jpg shows you what's involved in the flush.

You can do all of these tests without removing the plenum...

Heath

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:eek:

My dad's '94Q had 3 or 4 injectors fail. I think, and hope, the inj got better in '95.

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Q45Viper
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I agree it could be an injector, but after rereading his post I was curious, after the car stopped rolling the vibration ceased? Even while revving the motor at standstill? That sounds more like drivetrain vibration if it only happens while rolling? Would not the vibration still be there if he revved while standing still if it were an injector? This is gonna sound stupid but he could have wrapped a squirrel around an axle, I did exactly that once...HORRIBLE vibration...until the roadkill falls off again, might want to wait and see if it duplicates itself again or get it up on a lift and check for road debris or roadkill. Though for the money it sure would not hurt to do the rail flush also. Picking up a hunk of junk that stuck to a tire for a short while could give the same effect too.

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Q451990
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Jeff Williams wrote:While in park, I rev up the motor to 2500 RPM, vibration. No diagnostic, or check engine light, temp is fine....On restarting the engine, I notice there is no vibration. I go out to the engine and manually rev it up, wit hthe throttle cable. NO VIBRATION.


The vibration was there before he turned the car off and re-started. For some reason I thought the same thing the first time I read the post too though... weird.

Heath

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Q451990
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Jeff,

The link I posted earlier was removed because it pointed to a root directory rather than directly to the test... here's an old thread that discusses the injector test, and there's a link in there that will take you to the same place. Many thanks to DADEALUS for putting together the photos and instructions on checking the injectors and knock sensors.

Heath

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Jeff Williams
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Heath, thanks for the link. I did a search, and found the fuel rail cleaning, and the injector test procedure. (My CD manual sucks!)

I had a similar problem, on the way home, but the vibration worked its way out the first time. The second time, I put the car in "N", and turned of the ignition (At 80 MPH). I waited about 30 seconds, and restarted the car. I had to hold the accelerator to the floor, to get it to fire. "Transmission Malfunction" showed up, but I think it was because of my unorthodox "reset" procedure, at highway speeds.

The vibration went away. When I got home, I was unable to test the injectors for several hours, but the engine was still warm. (My mom came by to see the tile and crown molding work I did in my master and guest bathrooms, and I cooked her dinner).

The injectors ohmed out OK. The terminals that DADEALUS pointed to in his pictures do not work on my car. (it mignt be a 1994 cahnge). But, I did get the same reading on all injectors (11.54 to 11.57 on ALL 8 injectors). I then checked the knock sensors. The left knock sensor read 332 ohms, and the right one read 1608 ohms. I had to turn the 4-prong connector 180 degrees from his picture. The first readings were 2.9 ohms. Once I changed to the other side, the ohms were within spec.

I really think it is a poor fuel, or dirty injector problem. I have been cleaning them, off and on, over the last year with additives. I will get the fuel rail flush at the dealership, and get them to clean the injectors, and check the knock sensor, as well.

Quote »This is gonna sound stupid but he could have wrapped a squirrel around an axle[/quote] I did check for squirrels, but all I found was 2 armidillos, and an opossum.

DADEALUS, you are phenonimal!!

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"do not work on my car. (it mignt be a 1994 cahnge). But, I did get the same reading on all injectors (11.54 to 11.57 on ALL 8 injectors). I then checked the knock sensors. The left knock sensor read 332 ohms, and the right one read 1608 ohms. I had to turn the 4-prong connector 180 degrees from his picture. The first readings were 2.9 ohms. Once I changed to the other side, the ohms .........."

All 90-96 use the same wiring: injectors, KS, and coolant

Something is wrong here maybe ohmeter and/or positioning!

Never seen injectors that don't at least vary by 0.1- 0.3 ohms.

The knocksensors must be read [550,000 ohms] from center conductor of shielded wire to ground [plenum,battery, negative/some good chassis point]. One probe in connector plug the other to chassis ground!!!!!!!!!!

333 ohms sounds like you are reading the ecu coolant temp sensor [on same plug as the knock sensors] with warm coolant.

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Jeff,

The pressurized rail flush cleans the rails and injectors. Essentially they just put a special cleaner in a can pressurized by an air compressor, and connect it to the fuel rail where the line with the fuel filter goes, and loop the fuel sending and return lines back to the gas tank. Then they block off the return tube coming out from under the plenum, and run the car on the cleaner at about 50PSI. This should blast through anything on the screens or in the injectors that could block something. When it's all over be sure to immediately do a "drive it like you stole it" test drive to burn the stuff you washed off out of your cylinders and valves. I'd recommend replacing the fuel filter at the same time.

Heath

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Jeff. I've had the same issue and it turned out to be bad gas. With all the rain lately, it's not too suprising.

I checked the injectors several times, but they were all good. Thought it might be the coils, but the problem cleared up with the next road trip.

There is a shell oil change center near the corner of Hwy 31 and 119 (used to be a texaco) and the manager is the former BG rep for Alabama. I haven't been back since the name change but they used to have all the BG machines, transmission, fuel, etc.

Great place to stop by as they do a good job and don't look at you funny when you ask them to drop the pan twice.

It's also where I buy my BG Products in bulk, no shipping.

I'd rather go with someone who understands the system, than be anyone's Guinea Pig!

No offense to any pigs out there, including fat chicks ;)

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Everyone should get and keep in trunk a 4 pack [$4] of 100% isopropyl alcohol for emergency use after watered gasoline......each 12 oz bottle can absorb and renderer harmless 4-5-6 ounces of water and allow it to be normally burned with the gasoline.

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Q45Tech, thanks, I may be reading the wrong terminals. I printed out the pictures from DADEALUS's website. I turned the connectors to match the pics. I will re-check, tonight. It was probably the meter position.

Injectors:

1-11.552-11.543-11.564-11.565-11.576-11.567-11.578-11.57

It was 8:45 PM, I might have been wrong.

Jberger, thanks, I already called Brewbaker Infiniti, in Montgomery (where I work). Derek will do the flush, check all the sensors, and power ballance, for $114.00 I am going to drop the car off, Monday morning. They give me a loaner (maybe I'll get an FX-45, this time)

Q451990, thanks, I printed those pics, and my terminals read different. I will re-check (This time I wont take a big huff of R134a, first

:D )

My final diagnosisis bad gas, or water in the gas. I will get some of that isopropyl alcohol.

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Jesda
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wouldnt that $.80 bottle of Heet work just as well?

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Jesda wrote:wouldnt that $.80 bottle of Heet work just as well?


isoheet or other isopropyl alcohol "gas driers", work better than the "heet" and other products at nearly the same price.

Fred...:)

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Maybe my annotations are wrong? I'll check them too.

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Jeff Williams
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Followup:

My baby is at the dealership, this morning, for the flush. I didn't have any problems, over the weekend. This just strengethened the thoughts that it was bad fuel.

Derek quoted me $114.00 for the service, and he said he would check the injectors, and sensors as well.

I hope my fuel mileage improves with this cleaning. It is not bad (20 MPG), but a 2 MPG improvement, would net me $390 a year, at $1.49 per gallon.

Thanks for all your advice, and knowledge!

NICO rocks!

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19.37 mpg is my cumlative mileage over the last 249,903 miles......12,902 gallons consummed.22 mpg Average is more in 6 cylinder territory not 4.5 liter V8 sure you can get 22 mpg on all highway no ac at 60 mph per EPA specification. Anything above 2,000 rpm [60 mph] cruise is a fuel waster.

You must be using a lot of gasoline [$3600~~2400 gallons driving 48,000 miles per year?] for a 10% improvement to save $390 ..........math error?

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My '93 Q45 would get between 24 and 25 mpg at a steady 80mph with S-rated tires. That dropped to about 22 mpg with Z-rated tires.

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Jeff Williams
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Just got Baby back fron the dealership. $113.64 She purrs like a kitten. 600 RPM A/C, no A/C, Drive, Neutral, Park. No vibration.

It must have been the fuel (Same gas station as I alway use, & I fill up 3 to 4 times a week). It has been wet lately.

I didn't see the isoheat at Advance Auto. I will check at Kens, tomorrow.

I did a quick 15 mile trip to see a customer, and she feels a little bit tighter, and more responsive. Did not push her, as it is 85 degrees and 71% RH, and I had the A/C wide open.Quote »You must be using a lot of gasoline [$3600~~2400 gallons driving 48,000 miles per year?] for a 10% improvement to save $390 ..........math error?[/quote]Math is right, I've put 50,000 miles on her, since I got her last May. I'll be knocking on your miles door, in about 2 years (And I plan to keep her at least that long).

I storngly suggest the fuel rail flush. I will post mileage average changes, in a week. I try not to change my driving habbits, too much. Although, lately, I have been pushing her a little more. I usually set cruise at 77 MPH, and rarely cahnge that for my 72 mile trip to and from work, each day.


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