I put a post the other day about the engine noise. My assumption was the chain rattling but, I noticed as I had the hood up, I revved the engine and heard the rattle increase. So, every time I revved the engine, no matter the RPMS the rattle got louder. It's not a shield because I can hear it toward the middle of the valve cover.

Lifter? Or can it still be the timing chain tensioner?
When the car is idle I don't hear anything, not even a rod knock.
I'm freshening up the engine and while I have the valve cover gasket open, I'm hoping someone can help me..

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Is it a KA24DE?

If so, it's probably the upper timing chain guides.

One of mine had the rattle pretty loud, very similar to what you describe. It was the chain, which seems to echo the rattle throughout the valve cover. Since you're already going in there, take out the two guides and visually inspect the valves and cams. Try to check the movement of the tensioners while your at the chain. Please let us know how it goes when you get it back together.

PS - someone mentioned on another forum that an exhaust leak, at the head to manifold gasket, can create a ticking noise as well. I suppose you'd see some black around the gasket near the leak area.

You can look at these:
ka24e-ticking-lifters-repair-t215864.html
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/fix-yo ... attle.html

Yup, exhaust leak at the manifold, upper timing chain rattle, or even loose spark plug can cause that noise.

It really depends on what the noise actually sounds like. A video would aid in diagnosis.

Thank you for the replies! I was assuming it is a chain rattle but, I read the rattle goes away when more RPMs are initiated. And I also saw a video about the exhaust leak on you tube and it sounded exactly the same. The sound doesn't occur when i first start the car. once the car is started I hear the rattle. I will check the chain and provide an update. Can the engine perform fine without the chain guides? I will also check the tensioner. Which is worse? Adding tensioner spacer or replacing a manifold stud? LOL

asoomal wrote:Is it a KA24DE?

If so, it's probably the upper timing chain guides.

It's a KA24E 1989 240 hatch. I ran the car at idle until operating temp, drained the old oil, put in 10w30 with a new filter, threw in engine treatment again and let it run for 20 minutes, drained and topped off again with fresh oil in hopes the rattle will go away but, it didn't. I thought it might have been a lifter that was dirty or needed to be bled. I'm thinking of throwing in a third of ATF in it to clean out the lifters but, I really don't want to throw in all those additives. I want to fix the problem, not band aid it, since I will be drifting with the car on the weekends.

Single slammer I see.

Then it's more than likely it's the lifters.

Or as posted above, an exhaust leak.

For exhaust leak check, take off the exhaust manifold heat shield and look at the side of your block for black spots coming out of the gasket anywhere. Use a mirror and bright light to check the bottom and sides.

There is that link for SOHC lifter issues I posted above...

TSB for timing chain guides is DOHC. Apparently the SOHC gets this rattle, but needs an actual repair, not just a removal of guides. Here's what I found:
sohc-timing-chain-rattle-t388518.html
ka24e-sohc-timing-chain-replacment-t220807.html
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/fix-yo ... attle.html

I am not super familiar with SOHC, so I wish you luck and good help from others.

I pulled the valve cover off and noticed a lifter was lower than the rest. That's the culprit. The timing chain is perfectly fine. But, the lifter repai guide from that link doesn't show any pictures. I would like to start fixing the lifter but, I don't want to start completely blind. i can't find a guide anywhere that shows pictures on what to do. Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance!

Ok. So here's my synopsis. The valve is moving but, the pushrod is not budging, thus the tapping sound. So, I;m assuming the valve is working but, the push rod is stuck probably because the lifter might be stuck. So, I'm going to remove the rocker arm, slide out the push rod, and spray some B-12 carb cleaner in the hole to attempt to clean the lifter from the top of the head. Then make sure the push rod is clear and cleaned, put the push rod back and spray through the push rod hole, Then put the rocker arm back, make sure it is aligned properly and button everything back up. Then throw in either ATF or Gunk engine cleaner to clean the lifter from the bottom. Start the car, let it idle for 5 minutes, drain oil, change filter, and put in fresh oil and test.
If I am not successful what is the next step? I'm going to start this tomorrow morning. Any feedback is greatly appreciated, especially that I am in NY, It's cold, and I'l be doing this on my driveway!
Is that the normal color the internals supposed to be??? Or is it sludge?
Thanks in advance!

Update. I found two missing manifold bolts right under the valve cover. maybe that might be the culprit? I am not sure unless someone can verify that the rocker arms are normal. Can anyone verify that I don't have a collapsed valve? Thanks in advance!

Pictures are a little rough in there, but I'd start with the simple thing and replace the manifold bolts.
You can start the car with the valve cover off too... you might make a mess, but you'll be able to hear what's going on.

Thanks for the advice. I will start the car with the cover off and rev it a couple times to see how the rocker arms behave. Hopefully it's the manifold. But, it looks as if the engine needs a little cleaning, which I tried to do but, I'll do it a few more times in time. I'll update with what I find.

Update. I threw in engine treatment, let it idle for 5 minutes, drained oil, sprayed b-12 carb cleaner in the oil pan, valve train, and in where the oil filter screws in to loosen any sludge. Let it all drain out for about an hour. refilled with fresh oil and new filter. Started the car and engine won't hold idle. It'll start but will shut off. If i keep the idle at 3000 it'll run fine. Sometimes it is a little hard to start but will eventually start. Should I hold idle at 3k for a while to burn out carb cleaner or did I screw something up?

Thoughts appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

My bad..I ran out of gas. I added new oil but, still hear the clatter when I accelerate but, not during idle. I'm going to take off the valve cover again, dart the engine and inspect the rocker arms. If i do find that a lifter is acting up, what is the next step? i want to keep the engine and willing to fix it. i'm not a pro but, willing to try and learn to fix my own. The more intelligence the better.. i can't find info on how to replace a lifter or valve/ valve springs. The quicker I can fix this the happier my engine will be. Any info is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

Update... I took the valve cover off, started the car (what a mess!! LOL) and watched the rocker arms in action. They all seem to be working normally. I reved the engine as oil was splattering and no rattle sound. I checked the timing chain and noticed it was loose on the exhaust side. I looked at the inside of the valve cover and noticed there's a worn spot where the chain would hit if the chain is loose. I put the valve cover back on and the rattle came back. Looks like I need to get a tensioner spacer.

Question.. Is it safe to drive until I get the spacer? It hasn't jumped time yet.

Thanks in advance!

NICE! sounds like you found it!
You should be ok driving it until you get a new tensioner (and maybe chain too). It isn't close to wearing through anything, is it?

No.. The worn spot is very small. About an eighth of an inch wide. But, I took your advice by starting the car with valve cover off. That was messy! LOL
I put the valve cover back on and started the car. The sound went away. I think there was a lifter stuck but, after cleaning the crap out of the engine, I believe the lifter sound went away and it's just the timing chain. It's running smoother now but, I have to clean the engine bay now.. LOL

See you on the other side..
Thanks again!

Keep on keeping on man!

Ok. So, I made an audio clip of the engine revving. Can you tell if it's the timing chain or a lifter?
When I had the valve cover off, all rockers were functioning. Not one of them were stuck. But, I'm not a pro, which is why I need confirmation.
Thanks!

http://yourlisten.com/drewusmaximus/engine-rev

Kinda sounds like chain. I wouldn't think a lifter would rattle at that high of an RPM.

Thanks for the response! I ruled out rod knock because there is no rattle or clatter during idle. I let it idle for 30 minutes and no rattle/clatter. But, I haven't ruled out lifters but, when the VC was open and I had the engine running I heard no rattle /clatter during revving.
I'm just going to work on the tensioner and start from there..

I strongly feel it is the lifters.

I am concerned that it might be the lifters too. I am lost because when I revved the engine with the VC off there was no rattle/clatter.
If it is a lifter, what is the next step?

You could search lifter tick... I gave you a link to an article about lifter tick in this very thread (see above) and it has good ideas. The images are missing unfortunately. But it still has text and it seems like you would start by checking the movement for more that half a millimeter of play... Check it out. It's so good, that other websites and forums link back to it. Which is why it's unfortunate the article no longer has pictures. None of the regurgitations seemed to have the images either. It was posted by AZHitman, so maybe he knows of a way to restore the images.

I've checked all the rockers for play. They are all solid.
What I can do is pull out each lifter individually and clean out the lifter's pathway to make sure it's free of gunk and put the lifter back in place. Right now, I have the timing cover off and replacing the chain, tensioner, O rings and seals. Once I button up the front, I will check the lifters before closing everything up.