electric fan for J30?

Post by **madmax88** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

:rolleyes I,M thinking about getting perma cool fan is this an good mod and will it work? oh will i get more HP.*:ylsuper

Post by **carlos_knology** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

I guess it depends on how taxed the existing electrical system may be - adding a fan that runs all the time - when you drive at night, headlights, ac, radio, etc).

I'd be scared to have just an electrical fan in there. How safe is it?

I'm wondering of what would happen if the electric fan fails. You wouldn't know about it until it's too late. Do you have a way to tell (inside the car, of course) that the fan is still working?

About the HP gain, I don't know if you'd gain that much. Maybe some of the pros can chime in. I guess the sure way to know is to dyno before and after.

Post by **juiceman** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

I think that this has been touch upon alot and if you do a search you hould find it. I think most said the added hp is so minimal that it is not worth it besides most of the fans do not move enough air to cool properly

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

The J30 always runs cool, so if one paid any attention to the water temp gauge, they could quickly notice any increase in temp and check out the fan. A good electric fan install includes a thermostat that turns on the fan at the same temp as the factory one goes on.

no reason to be scared of an electric fan. as long as its CFM rating is at least that of the stock mechanical one, no problems will be encountered.

any fan such as this has a current draw no more than many upgraded stereos. A good precaution is to test the function of the alternator in advance.

the added HP will be minimal nonetheless, but it clears up space in front of the engine for forced induction piping (i.e. a supercharger, as has been done on the NA Z32.)

Post by **VimyJ** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Eswift wrote:the added HP will be minimal nonetheless, but it clears up space in front of the engine for forced induction piping (i.e. a supercharger, as has been done on the NA Z32.)

Get the eff outta here! Really? How did it turn out? Where can I read about it?

Website · Post by **diamondj30** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

uses a powerdyne bd550 head unit right where the AC compressor is supposed to be. most people dont want to do it because of the AC loss, which is understandable. with nothing more than turbo injectors, the supercharger, and a JWT TT ECU (which isnt even correctly mapped) 291 HP at the wheels is comfortably realized with no detonation. 2 guys have been running this setup for over a year now. ash powers' new "zemulator" will allow a much more robust tuning method for the ECU maps.

i did a summer in my J30 with no AC to see if i could handle it, and i will be piecing together parts for this job when i get all the details...

lets see if i have any pics...

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

here is his initial dyno, over a year old

Post by **VimyJ** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Eswift wrote:uses a powerdyne bd550 head unit right where the AC compressor is supposed to be. most people dont want to do it because of the AC loss, which is understandable. with nothing more than turbo injectors, the supercharger, and a JWT TT ECU (which isnt even correctly mapped) 291 HP at the wheels is comfortably realized with no detonation. 2 guys have been running this setup for over a year now. ash powers' new "zemulator" will allow a much more robust tuning method for the ECU maps.

i did a summer in my J30 with no AC to see if i could handle it, and i will be piecing together parts for this job when i get all the details...

lets see if i have any pics...

You did a Chicago summer without AC?!?! That is dedication. The J30 is the hottest car (literally and figuratively

) that I have ever been in. But 291 rw hp! Wow! Those cars must top out at 170+ mph! You better get a spoiler, brother, or you're going airborn.

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

here is his initial dyno, over a year old

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

sorry i have to scale everything down so much, here is one of the engines with the powerdyne unit up and running. (not the original one, though)

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

if you know what to look for, youll see it down there. i have more pics and a little more info. Its hard to get info because these guys seem to be shunned by the rest of the 300zx crowd simply because they go against the turbo grain. Great application for the J30 though because of turbo spacing issues. I bet most J owners wouldnt go without the AC though.

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

VimyJ wrote:You did a Chicago summer without AC?!?! That is dedication. The J30 is the hottest car (literally and figuratively ) that I have ever been in. ....... You better get a spoiler, brother, or you're going airborn.

i did brave the chicago heat last summer, as forced induction on the mind can do crazy things to one's willpower...the black on black sure didnt help things either...

somehow or other my plain old J30 has the J30t spoiler, which i think was a hint of what was to inevitably come....

heres an install pic of craig channer, to my knowledge, the originator of this VG breed...(that was his dyno also)

Post by **VimyJ** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

All I can say is wow! You really going to go through with it? I would have thought the 300zx na guys would be all over this little power tweak.

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

all the NA 300zx guys just seem to trade in for a TT, or to swap in a TT engine. Hopefully i will get started collecting everything i will need when it gets warm here again.

Post by **VimyJ** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Eswift wrote:all the NA 300zx guys just seem to trade in for a TT, or to swap in a TT engine. Hopefully i will get started collecting everything i will need when it gets warm here again.

Have you made an estimate about the cost? Damn, 291 rear wheel horse power in a J! Your car is going to be unbelievable! Should be able to handle it though.

Post by **Mayhem_J30** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Eswift, is right. The Z-tt guys in this world are unsupportive of the n/a world want to boost. For whatever reason, n/a guys rarely do it.I definately see where the elctric fan would be needed, that piping is everywhere and it's already a tight fit to begin with. Haha, the A/C is definately gone! Probably the best accesory to pick anyway because of location and it has the largest belt stock, 3-4 rib. How much is that SC putting out on that dyno? The ECU would be the hardest part. The bigger TT injectors would most likely be a must and it would have to run richer.

Post by **Movingviolation240** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Eswift wrote:i did brave the chicago heat last summer, as forced induction on the mind can do crazy things to one's willpower...the black on black sure didnt help things either...

somehow or other my plain old J30 has the J30t spoiler, which i think was a hint of what was to inevitably come....

heres an install pic of craig channer, to my knowledge, the originator of this VG breed...(that was his dyno also)

I live in FL and have no AC due to a motor swap, THAT is dedication.

I did the electric fans on each 240 I've owned. Never had an overheating problem with any of them that wasn't my fault (adjusting the temp switch wrong) and I've also never overtaxed the charging system. I can say that the HP increases were a lot more than you'd expect. Heck on a Z32 the UR pulley gains like 22hp from less drag on the crank and less rotating mass. What do you think a big fan swinging through the air and a heavy clutch are? drag and mass.

And one last thing (this is just 240 experience but should be the same) the car will run cooler with twin permacool fans and their shrouds in place insted of the stock mechanical fan.

PaulOrlando, FL

Post by **Mayhem_J30** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Movingviolation240 wrote:I live in FL and have no AC due to a motor swap, THAT is dedication.

I did the electric fans on each 240 I've owned. Never had an overheating problem with any of them that wasn't my fault (adjusting the temp switch wrong) and I've also never overtaxed the charging system. I can say that the HP increases were a lot more than you'd expect. Heck on a Z32 the UR pulley gains like 22hp from less drag on the crank and less rotating mass. What do you think a big fan swinging through the air and a heavy clutch are? drag and mass.

And one last thing (this is just 240 experience but should be the same) the car will run cooler with twin permacool fans and their shrouds in place insted of the stock mechanical fan.

PaulOrlando, FL

True dat. I know Q owners have experienced problems with the electric fans, but that motor must create a lot more heat or something. Problems on the VG30DE associated with the electrical fans are minimal. I would suggest installing an accurate coolant temp gauge to monitor the temp with. The stock gauge is very NUMB. Looks like the Z guys all stray away from it, but so far there hasn't been any complaints on it. Make sure the fan is super high flow. 5-6000 cfmAlso agreed with the UDP. It's a very beneficial gain when compared to the $$ spent. No problems have occured with this installed either. The only problem I've had is damn belt squeel. The belts are all tightened to spec. heck I even used a newton meter from a Physics class to measure the deflection with..:rolleyes I'm just going to use belt dressing now.

Post by **madmax88** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

cool man i like

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

VimyJ wrote:Have you made an estimate about the cost? Damn, 291 rear wheel horse power in a J! Your car is going to be unbelievable! Should be able to handle it though.

cost analysis: anywhere from $2500 - $4000 total, depending on if used parts are used. (used good condition TT injectors are easy to come by due to many TT owners upgrading to 555cc ones)

$1000-1800 supercharger head unit$100 modify compressor bracket$100 modify crank pulley$200-700 TT injectors$600 Zemulator and ECU related$150 Al piping$100 silicone pipe connections $200 electric fan

optional:

$60 boost gauge$100 EGT gauge$70 A/F gauge$??? dyno time

also note: the RWHP dyno results i put up reflect a JWT-TT ECU. Forgetting that the zemulator adds a safe 20HP over JWT TT ecu on the 300zx, the flow characteristics of a supercharger are far different from the T25 turbos. Thus, more dyno time with the zemulator with a supercharged application=more available power.

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Mayhem_J30 wrote: Make sure the fan is super high flow. 5-6000 cfm

not that there is anything with staying on the safe side, but 6000CFM is huge! how did you determine that figure? (most aftermarket EL fans pull 2-3k max...at least that i have found so far)

Post by **VimyJ** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

You know, now that I think of it, I wonder if the transmission will be up to the task. The J probably weighs close to 500 lbs more than a 300z. Are you going to alter the differential? Can you throw in a TT transmission? This is starting to sound expensive.

Post by **Mayhem_J30** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Eswift wrote:not that there is anything with staying on the safe side, but 6000CFM is huge! how did you determine that figure? (most aftermarket EL fans pull 2-3k max...at least that i have found so far)

that's what i keep reading from the Z enthusiasts. they say the stock fan puts out 6000cfm. I don't know the actual spec but I usually believe them.

Quote »You know, now that I think of it, I wonder if the transmission will be up to the task. The J probably weighs close to 500 lbs more than a 300z.[/quote] Vimy, I meant to bring this up earlier. If they're putting down 290 I don't think the transmission would last long at all. Those guys more then likely got a MT with an upgraded clutch. You could always go the Level 10 route.

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

My transmission is a little hairy already, but i am confident it will hold that much power for at least a little while. Life left will depend on previous and future abuse. If it fails on me i will have to go with the 5 speed conversion. Im pretty sure the craig has a stock clutch on his 300zx with the supercharger. Assuming the gearing systems are designed between the J30 and the 300zx with a similar factor of safety, if he hasnt seen a problem in a year, i probably wont either.

Post by **Mayhem_J30** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Eswift wrote:My transmission is a little hairy already, but i am confident it will hold that much power for at least a little while. Life left will depend on previous and future abuse. If it fails on me i will have to go with the 5 speed conversion. Im pretty sure the craig has a stock clutch on his 300zx with the supercharger. Assuming the gearing systems are designed between the J30 and the 300zx with a similar factor of safety, if he hasnt seen a problem in a year, i probably wont either.

To do the swap can you keep the original ECU? or can you just ditch the TCU?? I"ve checked into this before and there's PLENTY of places to have a driveshaft custom made for the swap.

Post by **Eswift** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

Mayhem, i believe all the ECU/TCU connections are outputs from the ECU, so removing the transmission will not effect engine control at all. Of course, certain connections for reverse lights, and not being able to crank when the clutch is out would need to be made. Proof of this is that on the 300zx, an auto ECu will plug in and work in a manual car, whilst a Manual ECu doesnt work in auto.

...if you dont mind me asking, what places have you heard of/reccomend for a custom driveshaft? a CF one would be really nice, as i bet the steel one is pretty weighty

Post by **madmax88** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

how much is a CF driveshaft? and wood it fit the J30/and wear can get my hands on one??

Post by **madmax88** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

so 2950cfm ok thay say HO performance fan, i dont sea a 6000cfm.

Post by **juiceman** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:28 pm

take it from me you are just asking for trouble with non stock drive shaft

No one makes a one piece and the two piece did not work well

I would stick with stock on this one

electric fan for J30?

electric fan for J30?

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