(Edited title) GW's rubber stamp.

[rn79870]

So tell me Greg, do you think this is a fair use of Capital punishment?

On April 13, 1961, U.S. Army Private John A. Bennett was hanged after being convicted of rape and attempted murder. (R. Serrano, "Last Soldier to Die at Levenworth Hanged in an April Storm," Los Angeles Times, 7/12/94).

[AZhitman]

Just to be clear, I was fully in agreement with you... Not sure if that was understood.

[Cold_Zero]

So tell me Greg, do you think this is a fair use of Capital punishment?

On April 13, 1961, U.S. Army Private John A. Bennett was hanged after being convicted of rape and attempted murder. (R. Serrano, "Last Soldier to Die at Levenworth Hanged in an April Storm," Los Angeles Times, 7/12/94).

If I remember reading Yahoo correctly, Private Bennett raped an Austrian little girl. No offense but I would not have a problem pulling the lever on the gallows in his case.bud

[Marenta]

Don't get me wrong, the frown was not for any disagreement or apparent lack of coming to terms. It was for me trying to decide on how much I should disclose.

I know the entire story. I know who started it, where, the exact inlet plenum and vent filter that started the fire. Hell, I even know what type of fire causing agent was used to ignite it. So, the depth of my knowledge was the issue, not the fact that I thought you and I had been of non-concurrence.

[Cold_Zero]

Marenta,Good info. Thanks!We have a lot of former sailors here at work. A good many fast attack guys that laugh at the "surface weenies." On exercises, the SAG guys have to request that the fast attacks operate in a certain grid so that they can be found. Apparently, it's not fair to let the fast attacks roam free.

[AZhitman]

For the third time now:

How is a one time event "prolific"?

And if you're gonna prattle on about nonmilitary TX inmates' sentences not being commuted, I'd ask again:

For someone who paints the prez as "an idiot", how could he profess to know better than all the esteemed professionals in the Judicial Branch preceding him?

You're advocating that someone as "dumb" as you make him out to be, go and effectively reverse the determinations of the Judicial Branch?

Which is it?

Someone has to have "the most exections" on his watch. Someone has to have the least. It's the nature of lists. What's the problem?

Was anyone denied due process? If so, the judiciary has failed. Not the Governor. Not the Prez. The judiciary.

And in the one military case you referenced, one instance does not a trend make.

Are you telling me Clinton / Bush Sr. / Ford / Reagan / Carter / Kennedy etc wouldn't have signed the execution orders of a military man as well? We'll never know, will we... 10 others got the death penalty since 1951 and were executed.

Leave Bennett out of this. He was hanged 47 years ago. You wanna dredge up the Salem Witch Trials too?

No one's missed your point. It's just not one that makes any sense.

I comprehend fully your thoughts on the death penalty. I can't say that I disagree wholeheartedly. But to critique in this particular instance is pure folly.

I also took offense at the thread title... More so, now that I've read it a few times and find nothing to substantiate it... not that you'd be able to understand why...

[Cold_Zero]

Don't get me wrong, the frown was not for any disagreement or apparent lack of coming to terms. It was for me trying to decide on how much I should disclose.

I know the entire story. I know who started it, where, the exact inlet plenum and vent filter that started the fire. Hell, I even know what type of fire causing agent was used to ignite it. So, the depth of my knowledge was the issue, not the fact that I thought you and I had been of non-concurrence.

I thought the majority of the ship was non smoking. With certain bays designated as "smoking." I guess most of the GW was smoking that day, eh? Will be interesting to see if the GW gets dubbed a new name, like the ForestFire, Pigway, the ****yKitty and the Numbnutz.

[AZhitman]

Don't get me wrong, the frown was not for any disagreement or apparent lack of coming to terms. It was for me trying to decide on how much I should disclose.

I know the entire story. I know who started it, where, the exact inlet plenum and vent filter that started the fire. Hell, I even know what type of fire causing agent was used to ignite it. So, the depth of my knowledge was the issue, not the fact that I thought you and I had been of non-concurrence.

Gotcha.

BTW, you and your crew look ready to whup some a$$ in that pic.

[Cold_Zero]

Which one was Marenta?

[Marenta]

LOL

I guess you'll never know which one is me.. >:F

And, I don't know. Most often people just use smokeless tobacco in the plant. But, this guy was in the AC&R space, so he didn't belong to Engineering or Reactor. So, we couldn't police him. He knew better.. and the ventilation isn't AC, it's just forced fans with filters, so rags with oil and paper and crap get sucked up in there all the time. So, the vent that the "thing" got sucked into hit a filter with rags, caught that on fire, which was right next to the room that had the 90 gallons of Refer Oil improperly stored. Why in heaven's name you need 90 gallons, I don't know. And, oil has to get REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hot to ignite, so, I guess it just got hot enough to flash the paint on the bulkhead and caught the oil on fire.. And, well, the maintenance was 10 years behind, and all the bulkhead stops weren't replaced, so it spread along all the cabling, and the shafts.

There was no way they could've fought it, even if they wanted to. The ship had been doing things the wrong way for far too long. They didn't even have a chance.

[Edit: It doesn't go beyond here.. http://www.myspace.com/marenta You shall all perish if it does... ]

[rn79870]

There is racial disparity on the military's death row. Of those on the military death row today, five are African-American, one is a Pacific Islander, and only one is Caucasian. Whereas nationwide, about half of the 3,600 death row inmates are members of a minority, the military has an 86 percent minority death row population.

According to Dwight Sullivan "While the number of servicemembers under death sentence is fairly small, the racial disparity in military death penalty cases has been distressingly persistent. During World War II, African-Americans accounted for less than 10 percent of the Army. Yet, of the 70 soldiers executed in Europe during the war, 55 [79%] were African-American. After President Truman ordered an end to the armed forces' segregation in 1948, this racial disparity actually increased. The military carried out 12 executions from 1954 until the most recent one in 1961. Eleven of the 12 executed servicemembers were African-American."

while I'm not trying to turn this into a racial discussion, I'm pointing out that when a single person decides who faces the death penalty, and that same person decides who sits on the panel hearing the case, and when we have such a disparity as this, It appears that there is abuse. This power in a single person philosophy is scary, really swcary. Of course, there are good Commanding officers, and there are some really, really crappy vendictive ones.

Did you know that it was a capital offense to...commit an offense with the intent to avoid hazardous duty or knowingly endangering a mission That is reasonable? That citation says "offense" not murder, not manslaughter, nor rape. Maybe endangering a mission has some potentially fatal consequesces, but avoiding hazardous duty? Death?

[rn79870]

If I remember reading Yahoo correctly, Private Bennett raped an Austrian little girl. No offense but I would not have a problem pulling the lever on the gallows in his case.bud

Yes, an 11 year old girl. Certainly he deserved to be locked up for the rest of his life, but to be executed for a non-fatal criminal act? Barbaric.

[AZhitman]

LOL

I guess you'll never know which one is me.. >:F

Far right (or the picture's left). Name on uniform.

[AZhitman]

[AZhitman]

Did you know that it was a capital offense to...commit an offense with the intent to avoid hazardous duty or knowingly endangering a mission That is reasonable? That citation says "offense" not murder, not manslaughter, nor rape.

Yes.

Think about WHY that would be.

Every troop does their job, or people die.

The military is NOT a democracy, Bob. You don't endanger a mission with your personal decisions. If you do, other brave men and women become casualties.

[Cold_Zero]

Yes, an 11 year old girl. Certainly he deserved to be locked up for the rest of his life, but to be executed for a non-fatal criminal act? Barbaric.

He left his post, was drunk and RAPED A LITTLE GIRL! Who is the barbaric one? That soldier took the innocence of a little girl. I have no problem with his execution. You dont have to commit a non fatal criminal act to get the death penalty.

[Marenta]

Far right (or the picture's left). Name on uniform.

Oh! Wrong!

[Edit: Unless you mean, Strike that, Reverse it?]

[Marenta]

He left his post, was drunk and RAPED A LITTLE GIRL! Who is the barbaric one? That soldier took the innocence of a little girl. I have no problem with his execution. You dont have to commit a non fatal criminal act to get the death penalty.

If I were his watch commander, he wouldn't have been alive past quaters the next morning. And, I'd be the one sitting on Death Row waiting for the President to give the order for the kill. I'd take it with a smile because I knew I did the right thing.

THAT is Divine Justice.

[Cold_Zero]

Well, as you are not Lopez or Tate, its hard to tell the name tags on the other sailors.

I say the PO in the middle.

[Cold_Zero]

If I were his watch commander, he wouldn't have been alive past quaters the next morning. And, I'd be the one sitting on Death Row waiting for the President to give the order for the kill. I'd take it with a smile because I knew I did the right thing.

THAT is Divine Justice.

He would have at least had a run in with the "locker monster" before being sent to jail.

[Marenta]

He would have at least had a run in with the "locker monster" as we call it.

I suppose having the upbringing that I've had, I'm pretty cold-hearted. The only people I warm up to is Eric and Will, (Army man and my son) other than that I'm fairly distant, and tend to be rather blunt.

Although, since I am transitioning out of the Navy, I have been working on my warming up to people routine.

But, that's not what this thread is about.. Anyway, what I mean to say, is that as soon as I had heard about what he had done. I would've unholstered my firearm and put a round right into his cranium. Then I would've surrendered my weapon and turned myself in, willingly. Submitted a statement to the effect that I killed him on the grounds that I believed it was my moral and ethical responsibility as he was on my watch team, and he left while he was on my time. *shrug*

[AZhitman]

He left his post, was drunk and RAPED A LITTLE GIRL! Who is the barbaric one? That soldier took the innocence of a little girl. I have no problem with his execution. You dont have to commit a non fatal criminal act to get the death penalty.

Big difference when it's not YOUR little girl you raised and loved and read stories to and protected and cared for....

So easy to point the finger when you're in Never-Neverland.

[AZhitman]

According to Dwight Sullivan "While the number of servicemembers under death sentence is fairly small, the racial disparity in military death penalty cases has been distressingly persistent. During World War II, African-Americans accounted for less than 10 percent of the Army. Yet, of the 70 soldiers executed in Europe during the war, 55 [79%] were African-American. After President Truman ordered an end to the armed forces' segregation in 1948, this racial disparity actually increased. The military carried out 12 executions from 1954 until the most recent one in 1961. Eleven of the 12 executed servicemembers were African-American."

Problematic? Yes. Relevant to the OP? Not in the least.

Bob, don't mistake my badgering for dislike, but as Ricky Ricardo says, "Joo gots some 'splainin to doooo!"

[srellim234]

Up until now I agree that blacks have been discriminated against. Let's find 80 Caucasians that have committed these types of crimes and execute them, too.

[rn79870]

It's really simple Greg. Giving the CO the right to convene a proceeding AND choose those persons who will hear the case is inherently unfair. Do you suppose for a minute that the CO will choose someone like me, or like you? Absolutely, he'll stack that panel with people from Texas and Florida.

The racial disparity heavily speaks to the unfairness of the system. I can't believe that the non-minority offenders didn't slide when the minority members faced the wrath of the CO.

The problem is that there is no absolute guaranty that a person who receives a life sentence actually serves a life sentence. That would be a fix.I'll allow that capital punishment is relevant for cop killers, multiple murderers and those who do so in the commission of another serious felony. But, never, is it justified when it extracts a penalty greater than the crime itself.

[Marenta]

I'm just throwing this out there.. I'm not really sure. But, wasn't it actually proven that since African-Americans, and other peoples from minorities, that since they come from statistically more impoverished areas and higher crime rates are more inclined to repeat the offenses that got them into the service in the first place?

I don't really know, I'm just throwing this out there.. I can't really prove it, or I don't know where to even start looking.. and google gives me all sorts of kookey crap, so, yeah.

[rn79870]

I would agree with that if the statistics for the military echoed those of the civilian data. State death rows are about 50% minority, whereas the military is 86% minority. I wish I had more data on why there is such a discrepancy, but unfortunately, I don't.

Problematic? Yes. Relevant to the OP? Not in the least.

Certainly is big guy. Think on it Ricky... The military should not be allowed to dispense life or death justice (except perhaps, in the time of war). Giving the military this live or die right, and allowing GW to to have any part in the process is pathetic. My gawd, a traditional jury trial is that much of a threat?

[Marenta]

Just to give you a heads up..

In the Navy, (Just the Navy) hell we'll say the TR, my department had maybe 20 african-americans. About 10 asians, 30 or so hispanics, and about 10 or so other cultures. The rest were white. My department had ~500 people in it.

On the other spectrum, 65% of the rest of the ships crew were african-american, 20% were white, and the other 15% were mixed. In a crew of about 3000.

That's where you get the population density from.

[rn79870]

I tried to find the ethnic breakdown of the US military. All I came up after a quick search was this for the US Army.

September 9, 2006: The half century long over-representation of African-Americans in the U.S. Army is ending. Over the last six years, the percentage of black recruits has fallen from 23.3 percent in 2000, to 22.7 percent of 2001, 19.9 percent in 2002, 16.4 percent in 2003, 13.9 percent in 2004 and 13.5 percent in 2005. Blacks comprise 13 percent of the general population (and 14 percent of the military age population). However, even with the drop in the number of black recruits, the army is still 21 percent black.

Since September 11, 2001, there has been a shift in who is joining the military. More whites, Hispanics and other minorities are joining, but fewer blacks.

[skylndrftr]

man I'm late to this one...what a day

Bob your stats on the start of this page are way outta line. You can't possibly compare anythign with a 6 person statistical sample in any reasonable way.

Marenta...rock on reactor girl! didn't know you did that butthe amount of training required...respect!