"Economy" brake upgrade

[chickentendah]

How much of a braking performance upgrade will I see by getting 4 quality brake pads, 4 stainless lines, and 4 OEM-sized slotted rotors?

Which upgrade gets more performance for the amount of $$ you spend?stock---->big brake systemstock---->this

Your knowledgeable comments are greatly appreciated.

(Please don't post a reply if you're only going to tell me "just do the Z32 upgrade." I already decided not to go that route, since I don't want to slap on parts that were never intended to be put on the car. In other words, I only want to put braking components that have been engineered with the car's stock weight distribution and front/rear bias in mind.)

[420_240sx]

The only thing Z32 brakes would do to your 240sx would be increasing stopping power, it will not effect the weight distribution any more than a sub in your hatch would. To get new OEM stuff would prob cost more than some time searching junkyards would, and you get superior stopping power. Are you keeping the entire car stock?

[pr240sx]

Most bang for your buckStock size cross-drilled/slotted rotors (100 plus shipping) and will fit your stock wheels and rotors.Good brake pads (not the Pep boys crap) Depends, 50-60Stainless steel braided brake lines 40 at your local perf. shopGood (or at least fresh) brake fluid 8~12 for one bottle

[chickentendah]

The only thing Z32 brakes would do to your 240sx would be increasing stopping power, it will not effect the weight distribution any more than a sub in your hatch would. To get new OEM stuff would prob cost more than some time searching junkyards would, and you get superior stopping power. Are you keeping the entire car stock?

Actually, the only thing I am keeping stock is the body. This is sorta going off-topic to this thread (maybe I should make another post since it's an interesting issue)......but what I was worried about was that Nissan never designed the Z32 brakes for the 240sx. And in slapping on the Z32 front brakes on the 240sx, without any consideration of the 240's original front/rear bias and stock weight distribution in mind, isn't there a chance that we're actually increasing our stopping distance? Has anybody out there verified that Z32 front brakes on a 240sx IMPROVES braking stability and performance?

I mean Nissan put on the 240sx brakes on there for a reason. I've done some reading elsewhere that improperly sized rotors/calipers/master cylinder could all contribute to an INCREASE in stopping distance (although the pedal would feel "better"). So being a saftey freak that I am, I would rather stay away from "un-tested" modifications.

[chickentendah]

Most bang for your buckStock size cross-drilled/slotted rotors (100 plus shipping) and will fit your stock wheels and rotors.Good brake pads (not the Pep boys crap) Depends, 50-60Stainless steel braided brake lines 40 at your local perf. shopGood (or at least fresh) brake fluid 8~12 for one bottle

Hey pr240sx, do you have any particular brand names for the rotors that you would like to recommend? Is this what you did to upgrade your brake system, and how much of an upgrade do you "feel"?

[SeVa-S13]

The stock brakes aren't all that bad but I thought I'd just point out that the brakes were not specifically designed for the Z32. They were used on all modern Skylines aswell. Oh, and S14 and later Silvias in Japan, which happen to be almost identical to the 240SX here in the states. Just food for thought, seeing as you trust car manufacturers' judgement. Nissan deemed them worthy for the S chassis in Japan, why not here?

[carnal_c30]

Pads= ~100 bucksRotors= 220 buckslines= I think you can get a f/r set for about 80 or so

so with all that... 100+220+80= 400

why not spend like 150-250 more and get TT Z brakes

if you are that worried about brake biasing, get a little valve so you can adjust it

my opinion is 240sx brakes suck- with good pads and rotors they are ok but they still fade faster than anything else...

[chickentendah]

perhaps I should leave the Z32 option open....

for those of you who have the Z32 upgrade, what are the minimum size wheels needed for clearance (for TT z32 brakes)?

[marshun]

yeah the brake fade on the stock brakes are pretty irratating.

z brakes are the next thing for me after my lsd.

[SeVa-S13]

Minimum size to clear the brakes is 16" I believe. Another option you have is a slightly smaller, and more economical, upgrade that will fit behind stock S13 alloys: Q45 brakes. Do some searching and reading in here. It's all been covered there many times over and alot of people there are really knowledgable and should be able to answer any questions you have.

[chickentendah]

ahhh silly me. I didn't even notice there was a brake forum.

Thanks!

[NisMoSilEiGhTy]

i have the 300zx brakes on my car and they are a hell of alot better than the 240sx brakes... longer pad life and much better braking distances...trust me i drive on 65 mph roads covered in deer and these brakes saved my *** numerous occasions i would highly recommend upgrading if u have the funds available

[carnal_c30]

perhaps I should leave the Z32 option open....

A complete Z upgrade shouldnt go without the master cylinder from the 3z, it improves the brake feel Z brakes with stock mc leaves the pedal kind of spongy

[pr240sx]

The thing is that if you go with the Z32 upgrade, you will posibly need new set of wheels with that upgrade, hence new tires, adding a lot to the final cost.And for the type of driving (no autocross, drifting, just highway driving)What I did was to change the rotors (front) and change the lines.total cost was 150.00. I needed the fluid anyway and I used the same stock pads (Nissan brand) and the feel was significally improved.As for rotor brand, I went with BrembosPads Nissan stock replacementsLines RussellFluid DOT3 CastrolSleeper look, stock wheels, superb braking

[scorsone]

I have a 91 coupe and last summer I purchased the crossed drilled rotors F/R, SS brake lines F/R, and KVR performance pads from pdm-racing all stock sizes. I love them! The fade is gone and under repeat braking and high speed braking the stopping power increases as the brakes heat up. Although the brakes feel weak or stock-like when cold. I am sorry I don't remember the cost but I believe it was around 400-500 bucks with shipping. I considered the Z upgrade but it would have been too expensive for just the front end.

[marshun]

with what you just said, i dont believe you. my friend just has some other kind of expensive pads on his 240 and the rest is pretty much the same. but there's still brake fade. maybe you dont brake as hard. but the brake fade is still there. thats why im just gonna go for the z brakes. i'll just do the upgrades to those and i should be fine.

[Chingon]

z32 brakes clear my 15x7 wheels. 26mm calipers.

[carnal_c30]

I dont believe it either... I have brembo xdrilled/slotted stock size on my gfs car with Axxis pads... they bite harder and are better than stock pads and rotors but they still fade easily... more than two stops from 80mph in a few minutes and they turn to crap

[youngturk]

Hi Chingon,

Are you serious that the Z32 brakes (280 MM dia., 30 mm wide rotors with aluminum calipers) cleared your 15" wheels? I have a stock '92 240SX SE Coupe with stock aluminum alloy wheels. I have been unable to find any vendor who says that the Z32 brake upgrade will clear my wheels. Do you think they will? Thanks.

[Chingon]

I'm sorry young turk, I meant 26mm calipers...(52 duh), this are still z32 brakes but I think have less fitting issues than the 30mm version. I know, that my 26mm version also fit the 7 spoke 240sx wheels from other sources. I don't really know what the difference is in the fitting, since I'd imagine that both calipers have the same width and the slot inside would be the only change. Maybe some others can help out with this issue? What you can do is, take one of your wheels off, mount the rotor inside the caliper and test fit inside of the wheel. This is what I did with mine to check for clearance.

ps: i fixed my previous post.

[richd]

I'm pretty sure old brake fluid can cause fade also. The moisture in the line boils creating air bubbles, increasing compressibility.

I believe significant gains can be had by simply using real performance pads (ie work better as they get hotter) and fresh fluid. For track days it may be beneficial to install/make some air vents to the rotors.

[Chingon]

on 2nd note, it seems that the 30mm calipers have a slightly thicker housing than the 26mm, which would probably not fit 15in rims.

http://importnut.net/240pics/b...1.jpg

[Chingon]

I'm pretty sure old brake fluid can cause fade also. The moisture in the line boils creating air bubbles, increasing compressibility.

I don't follow; water vapor is much more compressible than fluids, and brake fluids at that. It's the uncompressability of this fluids that trigger the hydrolic system, not the compressability.

[richd]

I don't follow; water vapor is much more compressible than fluids, and brake fluids at that.

I think we agree on that...

Quote » It's the uncompressability of this fluids that trigger the hydrolic system, not the compressability. [/quote]

I think you're saying the same thing. I was trying to say that fade can be a result of air bubbles, which can result from the brakes getting very hot and boiling the moisture in the fluid.

So going back to your quote, pure brake fluid is not compressible, thus giving a firm pedal until the fluid exceeds its dry boiling point. Old fluid with some moisture will give a reasonably firm pedal until its wet boiling point, which is lower. A softer pedal means less pressure on the pads.

[matt4pl]

yea, z32 brakes clear stock s13 wheels, but not stock s14 wheels, teh 4 lugs, the otehr option is q45 brakes, which are the same size as the Z32 brakes. 28mm x 11in with two piston sliding design like the stock 240sx brakes. ppl say they're just as good as z32 brakes

[marshun]

we put dot4 fluid in my friends brake setup and theres still that brake fade. im just not feeling the brakes at all.

so best route would just get the 5 lug and do a big brake upgrade with all the fixins. :P. dreamz

but to be more realistic the 5 lug z brake setup would open up options for the future if need be. there are only so many options with the 4 lug.

[Chingon]

I think we agree on that...



I think you're saying the same thing. I was trying to say that fade can be a result of air bubbles, which can result from the brakes getting very hot and boiling the moisture in the fluid.

So going back to your quote, pure brake fluid is not compressible, thus giving a firm pedal until the fluid exceeds its dry boiling point. Old fluid with some moisture will give a reasonably firm pedal until its wet boiling point, which is lower. A softer pedal means less pressure on the pads.

I got you now, I thought by brake fade you meant pad fade, but by definition brake fade can be either pad, fluid, or green fade, which fluid falls under.

[matt4pl]

q45 brakes are super cheap to do, z32's will be nice when you wanna get some nice wheels. but either can be redrilled to 4-lug. also, realize that economy and upgrade dont go togethere very well

[crzycav86]

the 26 mm calipers will clear stock s13 alloys.the 30 mm calipers will not.

the q45 calipers will clear the wheels and will provide just as good stopping distance as the z-brakes, since the pad area between the two brake setups is very close. If you want something inexpensive, and most likely not have to buy new wheels, get the q45 brakes or 26mm z-brakes. If you want even better stopping distance after you upgrade the brakes, get stickier tires.

[matt4pl]

i picked up my q45 calipers for 60 (shipped, for both), with 75% pad left. still using those pads. got new rotors for 35 each. 130 all together. then add fluid, some brake grease and you got stopping power for a 4100 beast packed onto a 2700lb car. a new MC to get nicer pedal feel and new pads and SS lines and youre set. and they clear even 15" steelies (for winter tires). and you dont need new lines or adapter plates or anything.

so add some $ for new pads or whatever. it will run under $250 if u look for good deals, brake as well as Z32 brakes, and fit stock wheels. its an overlooked upgrade. its not as blingy as Z32 brakes, Z32 brakes are awesome too though. they are from a great sports car, so yea. but the bling factor = $. q45 brakes are a direct bolt on that only require you to cut the dust shield off.