Easy HP increase pix

[szh]

Folks, I missed how quickly this thread went off-track. Sorry I dropped the ball here!

Let's keep it civil ... comments should not be personal and also should not be taken personally.

Thanks for your attention!

Z

Is everyone missing my request here???

Any more personal attacks and I will lock this thread, or edit posts, and/or issue vacations from NICO (temporary or permanent) from here onwards.

I try hard to keep this forum on an even keel without going overboard with censorship, so please don't put me in that position!

Z

[ken in az]

Whoa whoa whoa.

He may not have added more airflow.

Remember, the car has a MAF. Unless he somehow exceeded the MAF capacity, then he didn't (to the ECU's thinking) significantly "increase airflow".

I'd need to know what car we're discussing before I start throwing around judgment.

The MAF is used primarily for closed loop operation. The ECU has set parameters under wide open throttle. Unless the car in question has WOT Closed Loop then and only then would the MAF account for the added airflow.

And if it is a supercharged engine - putting that "downpipe" on - which downpipe is normally referenced for turbocharged vehicles - would indeed increase airflow. If you want to use fancy word to describe why it didn't then go ahead, but he did, that's why it went lean.

O2 sensors have to be properly heated to work correctly, about 600* F, and trust me adding a 5" exhaust will not reduce exhaust temperatures at wide open throttle to less than 600* F

[ken in az]

Sorry, edited post - rough day

[M4T5]

Everclear...

Less back pressure and reduced heat stack can and possibly will send an 02 sensor into a frenzy over time.

Yes, Everclear.... You heard of it?It's a fairly nasty dose of race fuel that people are drinking these days.... lol. I had a few party nights in my younger years that included a mixed concoction with Everclear........ Those were not my best nights to say the least......

J

[AZhitman]

If you want to use fancy word to describe why it didn't then go ahead, but he did, that's why it went lean.

O2 sensors have to be properly heated to work correctly, about 600* F, and trust me adding a 5" exhaust will not reduce exhaust temperatures at wide open throttle to less than 600* F

We're on the same page. No fancy words needed.

If he's indeed talking about a Turbo GN, and the AF sensor is too far downstream, I'd bet he *may* have gotten into a situation of insufficient heat. That's a small-displacement engine, and a 5" DP of that length would really enhance entropy and possibly even provide false AFR's.

[notacarlo]

You guys are great. I don't need to defend myself, but I will explain what I was talking about.

The ECM base fuel map is calibrated to a totally stock car (doesn't matter what car). When the 02 can not be referenced due to insufficient heat it goes to the base map. When you reduce the back pressure in an exhaust system, the engine side of the 02 gets really hot. Since the exhaust is not collecting as it normally would (post cat) that sensor can fail or give inaccurate data to the ecm. Here comes a CES light. ECM reverts to base fuel map according to TPS/MAF = car runs rough. WOT blasts may correct the situation temporarily, but during a lean cruise IT CAN CAUSE IT TO FAIL.

As far as a 5" downpipe goes, I appreciate the comments - as they would apply to a car with a smaller turbo and a complete exhaust system.

M4T5 - everclear has a special place in my heart, then on the ground....

[notacarlo]

You guys are great. I don't need to defend myself, but I will explain what I was talking about.

The ECM base fuel map is calibrated to a totally stock car (doesn't matter what car). When the 02 can not be referenced due to insufficient heat it goes to the base map. When you reduce the back pressure in an exhaust system, the engine side of the 02 gets really hot. Since the exhaust is not collecting as it normally would (post cat) that sensor can fail or give inaccurate data to the ecm. Here comes a CES light. ECM reverts to base fuel map according to TPS/MAF = car runs rough. WOT blasts may correct the situation temporarily, but during a lean cruise IT CAN CAUSE IT TO FAIL.

As far as a 5" downpipe goes, I appreciate the comments - as they would apply to a car with a smaller turbo and a complete exhaust system.

M4T5 - everclear has a special place in my heart, then on the ground....

You know what, never mind. Disregard my initial and preceeding posts. I just forgot that I have no idea what I am talking about. I have no experience with cars and am now contemplating the sale of all 2,4 and 18 wheeled vehicles that I have.

I need to go find a forum dedicated to white noise and just stare at it.

[ken in az]

You know what, never mind. Disregard my initial and preceeding posts. I just forgot that I have no idea what I am talking about. I have no experience with cars and am now contemplating the sale of all 2,4 and 18 wheeled vehicles that I have.

I need to go find a forum dedicated to white noise and just stare at it.

With that last statement right there you just totally redeemed yourself

5" though - what kind of power were you making? GN's Have one wire O2 sensors. We actually have front Wideband O2 sensors factory that are much more tolerant of temperature differential since they are heated. I sincerily doubt that adding an aftermarket exhaust system to a completely stock engine would cause temperatures to kill an O2. You mustave been runnin some serious boost numbers - care to entertain us?

[notacarlo]

With that last statement right there you just totally redeemed yourself

5" though - what kind of power were you making? GN's Have one wire O2 sensors. We actually have front Wideband O2 sensors factory that are much more tolerant of temperature differential since they are heated. I sincerily doubt that adding an aftermarket exhaust system to a completely stock engine would cause temperatures to kill an O2. You mustave been runnin some serious boost numbers - care to entertain us?

1 wire pre-turbo, 1 LC WB Post turbo (directly across from the exducer) - was about 1 foot down stream. I use WB to tune with F.A.S.T.

25 psi with alcohol injection to suppress knock @ 23 degrees advance. (street tune) 547 to the wheels last October with a 61mm GT Journal bearing on 21st Century's chassis dyno. Run about 29 psi at the track. Best time to date is 11.08 @ 120 mph, 1.7 60 foot. I drive it to work at least 3 times a week. Still getting 24-26 mpg with a light foot.

Goal is 10.20 full weight with the stock block. Then it's stage II time.

I don't mean to come off all sensitive with the above posts, but I have been doing this for a while too. My intention was to warn of a situation that HAD occurred with me.

Hey, I could be wrong in my statements....That's fine with me.

Have a good night. I'm off to Houston tomorrow to pick up a 599.

[ken in az]

1 wire pre-turbo, 1 LC WB Post turbo (directly across from the exducer) - was about 1 foot down stream. I use WB to tune with F.A.S.T.

25 psi with alcohol injection to suppress knock @ 23 degrees advance. (street tune) 547 to the wheels last October with a 61mm GT Journal bearing on 21st Century's chassis dyno. Run about 29 psi at the track. Best time to date is 11.08 @ 120 mph, 1.7 60 foot. I drive it to work at least 3 times a week. Still getting 24-26 mpg with a light foot.

Goal is 10.20 full weight with the stock block. Then it's stage II time.

I don't mean to come off all sensitive with the above posts, but I have been doing this for a while too. My intention was to warn of a situation that HAD occurred with me.

Hey, I could be wrong in my statements....That's fine with me.

Have a good night. I'm off to Houston tomorrow to pick up a 599.

Very Nice! My fastest trap speed was 119mph - but then I started breaking stuff so I sold it for a diesel that oddly enough I sold and got the M I have now. The truck was faster than the M when I sold it

I know the M has a lot to give up. The exhaust system in stock trim is probably comparable to a honda 1.6 non v-tec - in other words it's pathetic.

The worst part about this vehicle is that you need ecu tuning to take advantage of the fueling and timing maps to account for the added airflow otherwise it'll actually loose power. this has been proven time and time again with the M45 and the Titans. The ECU's in these cars are set to keep the powertrain alive for 70K mi and it will not accomodate for increased airflow like the cars of yesteryear.

In essence these cars almost revert back to the carb'd V-8 days where you'd need to re-jet the carburator after every modification.

[M4T5]

Have a good night. I'm off to Houston tomorrow to pick up a 599.

What is a 599??? A Ferrari? Why do you have to make me look stupid???

J

[SteveTheTech]

notacarlo- I think you have the best job on the world. I would love to get into something like that although I can imagine that you would have to forget everything you knew about cars and buy stupid sized tools. Working on something like a Ferrari, where nothing less than perfection is accepted would be amazing.

[notacarlo]

notacarlo- I think you have the best job on the world. I would love to get into something like that although I can imagine that you would have to forget everything you knew about cars and buy stupid sized tools. Working on something like a Ferrari, where nothing less than perfection is accepted would be amazing.

Steve,

the only difference between a Ferrari and any other car is perceived value...and a buttload of aluminum. These cars are 15 years behind schedule as far as electronics go, but a Ferrari isn't about electronics.

[SteveTheTech]

Steve,

the only difference between a Ferrari and any other car is perceived value...and a buttload of aluminum. These cars are 15 years behind schedule as far as electronics go, but a Ferrari isn't about electronics.

Value is more of the name and availability than the components used. From an electrical geeks perspective anything the Italians come up with is interesting. Do they used sourced control units for things like engine management and things like their paddle shift technology or is all their stuff in house?

From some of the underpinning and engine bay shots they do seem to use larger more "classically" designed components and complex systems. I would like to read more about diagnosing them but I have been unable to read the Ferrari forums the owners are intolerable.

[notacarlo]

Value is more of the name and availability than the components used. From an electrical geeks perspective anything the Italians come up with is interesting. Do they used sourced control units for things like engine management and things like their paddle shift technology or is all their stuff in house?

From some of the underpinning and engine bay shots they do seem to use larger more "classically" designed components and complex systems. I would like to read more about diagnosing them but I have been unable to read the Ferrari forums the owners are intolerable.

Bosch and Magneti Marelli, the first being an in-house item. The F1 gear boxes and controls are just that.....Ferrari F1 derived. There's nothing in these cars other than the occasional 1157 bulb that you can get at an auto parts store.

[SteveTheTech]

The lack of general knowledge is one of the things I find intriguing about these.

Bosch and Magneti Marelli To me I hear rare and expensive.

I once had the opportunity to drive a red 355 and I understand the fierce loyalty to such a machine.

Working in such an environment must be something completely different than the day of a line tech. It would be pretty nice to work in a place where people take their production seriously.

[New2Import]

as promised, here are the pix i took of what i did to my M45 to help it "exhale" a little better.

1. first we put the car on the rack. obviously i don't own a rack so i went to my local myffler shop who has done work on some of my past rides.



2. as you can see by the red circle i drew, this is the restriction point in which the air "collides" and is then forced down the "y" pipe (i say it still looks like an "X") , and then back out again to be divided into the two mufflers.



3. this is the piece i removed (or had removed because i don't have the slightest idea on how to cut it off)



4. now here is what i did; i have now made the car a "true dual" so now the exhaust fumes can flow freely toward the back of the car without that "restriction" it had before. why the factory didn't do this to begin with is kinda beyond my comprehention; but in every masterpiece, there is always room for perfection.



again, the reason i did this mod is because i wanted to have a few more ponies (which the more i drive, the more the car pulls harder than it did) , but most of all, no noise.hope you enjoyed the show! lol

If you really look at the pic isnt it still a X pipe but has a longer center section. My question is are the aftermarket systems from mid pipe back larger in diameter than the stock system 2.25 compared to 2.5" ?

[M4T5]

Yes, they are quite a bit larger. You also loose the crinkled bends. Meaning when a pipe is bent the inside of the bend closes up. The after market units are probably 2.5-2.75" in diameter. Even at the bends. The after market pipes are mandrel bent. Meaning they are the same diameter throughout the entire bend in the pipes.

J

[M45Caliber]

Here's a link to a sweet looking stainless X-Pipe - have your muffler shop weld this puppy in the middle, where you pulled the stock part off. Check it out....

http://www.m2performance.us/st...3.jpg

[MR. BAKERZ]

GO hks power and get ur bang for the buck.

[fiveliterbeater]

GO hks power and get ur bang for the buck.

for spending $80 and gaining half the horsepower i would instead of buying an $800+ aftermarket exhaust to gain about 6-7 more hp than my way IS NOT bang for the buck. where did you learn how to add????....plus my way is ALOT quieter......i'm tired of loud exhausts.....and besides, you have a V6...this thread doesn't even apply to you.....a$$

Modified by fiveliterbeater at 6:06 PM 3/3/2009

[M4T5]

I really think you should add the X-pipe. DO IT! The X-pipe could possibly help your engine and the X-pipe is known to quiet down the exhaust tones.

J

[fiveliterbeater]

you know what, you may be right; i think i'm gonna look into getting that X pipe and post back with results

[M45Caliber]

You gotta admit that you'll want to polish that X-Pipe and then place mirrors on the side sills so others can admire it. I can't believe the craftsmanship that went in to that freakin' X-pipe I posted the link to. Looks impressive.... let us know how it ends up and post some pics.