Easy HP increase pix

[fiveliterbeater]

as promised, here are the pix i took of what i did to my M45 to help it "exhale" a little better.

1. first we put the car on the rack. obviously i don't own a rack so i went to my local myffler shop who has done work on some of my past rides.



2. as you can see by the red circle i drew, this is the restriction point in which the air "collides" and is then forced down the "y" pipe (i say it still looks like an "X") , and then back out again to be divided into the two mufflers.



3. this is the piece i removed (or had removed because i don't have the slightest idea on how to cut it off)



4. now here is what i did; i have now made the car a "true dual" so now the exhaust fumes can flow freely toward the back of the car without that "restriction" it had before. why the factory didn't do this to begin with is kinda beyond my comprehention; but in every masterpiece, there is always room for perfection.



again, the reason i did this mod is because i wanted to have a few more ponies (which the more i drive, the more the car pulls harder than it did) , but most of all, no noise.hope you enjoyed the show! lol

[DashingMax]

Ok! With all due respect, you and your muffler guy knows more about tuning the exhaust than all of the Ph.D engineers at Nissan?

Why tinker with a perfectly good & reliable car? You like to modify your cars go get a Subaru WRX or Honda Civic.

Sorry...nevermind...I'm glad this mod worked out for you. Enjoy!!

[M4T5]

Dashingmax.....get over it! These cars can be modded! Sorry you want to be boring!

BTW, being you eliminated the crossover pipe, have you ever thought of why this would have been placed there to begin with????The crossover section (ex: H or X-pipe) distributes the exhaust pressure evenly between the two cylinder banks of the engine. I would have placed an X crossover tube in that place instead of separating the exhaust pipes all together.These crossover tubes are placed there for a reason....and you removed that.

I don't recommend anyone doing exactly what you did. I will give you props for identifying a very restrictive part of the exhaust system. I too find this section a blunder of why....but cost is the answer.

J

[07sportm35]

What I would have liked to see was before and after Dyno's.

Mad props for your efforts Bro.

[fiveliterbeater]

Ok! With all due respect, you and your muffler guy knows more about tuning the exhaust than all of the Ph.D engineers at Nissan?

...........ok jacka$$, the comment you made illustrates the ignorance and emptyness of the statement that came out of your mouth (or in this case, keyboard). i don't want to play the part of "i know more than you do" type of stuff , being that we are all grown ups here and we drive very sophisticated cars, but on the other hand, i can't resist calling you out on what you just said.

1. not at anytime did i ever claim or write: " Lorenzo (aka fiveliterbeater) , is certified to know more than Nissan and Infinity".

2. i actually drove out and did my reasrch at two Infinity dealerships yesterday and got my answers from service mechanics , instead of spouting out claims like "modifiying a Y-pipe into a true dual doesn't change the performance of the car" where did you get your research from?

3. i kind of want you to go out and prove me wrong by doing research and even make a fool of yourself and see what kind of answers you get to show how ignorant you are. i'm not going to do that so i'll save you the trouble and post my findings to someone who can respect the fact some people, just know more than you do and are willing to go out and ask questions. i know i don't know everything, but when i'm kind of unclear on a subject, i don't challenge someone's findings without doing RESEARCH.

(sitting back as i await your pitiful reply)

Modified by fiveliterbeater at 10:35 AM 2/19/2009
Modified by fiveliterbeater at 1:08 PM 2/19/2009

[fiveliterbeater]

BTW, being you eliminated the crossover pipe, have you ever thought of why this would have been placed there to begin with????The crossover section (ex: H or X-pipe) distributes the exhaust pressure evenly between the two cylinder banks of the engine.

well, i appreciate your question and here is what i found:

the car in fact DOES make more of a "snarl" when you fire up the car and if i pay attention closely, i can hear my exhaust tone just a little more than what i used to before i performed this mod.I now know exactly why there is a Y-pipe on our cars instead of a "true dual" but i needed confirmation and i got it , by driving over to Metro Infinty of Montclair and Metro Infinity of Monrovia and manged to speak to one of the service mechanics at each location.

the reason there is a Y-pipe instead of a "true dual" is to "slow down" the air so that the "slightly audible snarl" from the exhaust is not heard. apparently 2 resonators and two mufflers isn't enough to quiet down the VK motors so for Nissan/Inifinity opting for the Y-pipe, the exhaust is slowed down to a minimum, and that helps keep the noise down to the way you hear your car today wihtout any noise.

...again, I myself was wrong when i said there was NO noise. there is a slightly more audible "snarl" from the exhaust; but not enough to notice it when your driving on the freeway or with the windows rolled up. the only time you notice it, is when you fire the car up in the morning, or when you are driving at slow speeds in the city.

....as i had suspected though, both service mechanics agreed that a "true dual" setup on our cars would have been a better choice performance wise. the only question they had for me was, why didn't i just go all out and buy the full catback instead of doing it half-a$$

i explained why and they just shook their heads. at least i got the answer i was looking for though.
Modified by fiveliterbeater at 10:39 AM 2/19/2009

[aidan2474]

InfinitY? Don't they make speakers?

[fiveliterbeater]

InfinitY? Don't they make speakers?

DUH!

[Sentientbydesign]

This violates accepted exhaust flow theory.

This mod likely allows for more high end flow, but sacrafices low end torque.

*shakes head*

I'm going to make the following claims based on what I've researched, not what I know to be true about your setup...

Exhaust systems do more than just blow out combusted gasses. There is such a thing called scavenging which basically means that the vacuum created behind one exhaust pulse helps suck out the exhaust from the next cylinder on it's exhaust stroke.

This kind of reminds me of geese in V formation. The ones in the rear have to do less work than the ones in the front.

So having those two pipes merge, then separate SHOULD in theory allow for scavenging of exhaust vapors out of the cylinder and down the exhaust pipe until they finally go out the tail pipes.

By separating the two, the exhaust vacuum is now disrupted and you're actually loosing power in some areas.

I seem to remember reading about the exhaust systems on the G35 and how most of the companies tried straight true dual setups and the car lost power. They had to add an X pipe in order to improve flow again.

Your setup would be ideal if an engine continuously pumped the same amount of fluid, but it doesn't, it pumps it in pulses.

[ken in az]

X pipe or a balance tube(H pipe) would yeild more power.

X pipe is $80 - $100 by itself tho

[fiveliterbeater]

This violates accepted exhaust flow theory.

This mod likely allows for more high end flow, but sacrafices low end torque.

*shakes head*

I'm going to make the following claims based on what I've researched, not what I know to be true about your setup...

I seem to remember reading about the exhaust systems on the G35 and how most of the companies tried straight true dual setups and the car lost power. They had to add an X pipe in order to improve flow again.

Your setup would be ideal if an engine continuously pumped the same amount of fluid, but it doesn't, it pumps it in pulses.

.........i'm not trying to re-invent the wheel here and i'm not trying to burst your bubble: but every engine sends out exhaust flows in pulses. i don't know of any combustible engine that sends out a CONSTANT flow of exhaust. i don't know what book you pulled that theory out of but i'd be very willing to read it myself. .....every engine puts out exhaust flows in pulses; it's a question of how "frequent" the pulses of exhaust are in between each other. obvioulsy, the time between the spent exhausts being sent out the back are going to be more "frequent" on a V8 than on a V6 . as you "unintentionally" just proved my point, a "true dual" setup on a V6 will not benefit you because the frquency of the pulses is not enough to merit an exhaust setup for each side of the block. on a V8 however, the frequency of pulses is more constant as you now have TWO more cylinders sending out more air down the same pipe. .....just to make a point, the famous and beloved V8 mustang has been doing "true dual" setups on their cars since the 60's all the way to the 2009 mustang. the mustang isn't of course a luxury car so the xtra noise from the exhaust is very welcomed.

thank you. you now know something new. please drive through
Modified by fiveliterbeater at 1:18 PM 2/19/2009

[ken in az]

I just noticed they used crush bent pipe.....you need mandrel bent pipe to also improve power.

Not saying what you did won't give you more power, just that mandrel would be better for those looking to do this.

I do have to give you props for doing this on your own! Good Job!!

[fiveliterbeater]

I just noticed they used crush bent pipe.....you need mandrel bent pipe to also improve power.

+1 on that; crushed bent pipe is all that the shop had; but hey, for $80 and being able to break the tires loose more easily now with the VDC off i think was worth it.

[nmgoodthing]

While the exhaust breaths better, you lose low end torque due to loss of back pressure. End of story. High end she should sing. I know my cat back does on my Y34. Have you noticed at all while warning up an erratic idle while slowing down or coming to a stoplight?

[Sentientbydesign]

I was trying to be nice, but since you obviously think you know more than everybody...

My comment about a continuous flow pump was an IF. Read properly before making remarks. If that 25% increase in pulse frequency is enough, then bravo. If not...

[M4T5]

.....just to make a point, the famous and beloved V8 mustang has been doing "true dual" setups on their cars since the 60's all the way to the 2009 mustang. the mustang isn't of course a luxury car so the xtra noise from the exhaust is very welcomed.

thank you. you now know something new. please drive through

Modified by fiveliterbeater at 1:18 PM 2/19/2009

Your beloved point is incorrect.........The mustangs did have true duals up to the point of the 5.0L introduced in the 80's. Then like I stated before, they went to an H-Pipe set-up, then to a X-pipe set-up. Either way, these are not true dual set-ups like you set your M up.The aftermarket companies use X-pipes in their pipe designs for a reason. If they felt more power was to be had with separating both exhaust banks, then they would have done so. You need to add an X-pipe section in there man. An X-pipe crossover will work better than the OEM set-up and your current set-up.

J

[fiveliterbeater]

I was trying to be nice, but since you obviously think you know more than everybody...

My comment about a continuous flow pump was an IF. Read properly before making remarks. If that 25% increase in pulse frequency is enough, then bravo. If not...

ok sorry, i guess i read wrong then.

[Sentientbydesign]

Do I need to install an "H" pipe in my dual exhaust system?

Flowmaster strongly recommends using a crossover tube, otherwise known as an "H" pipe or balance pipe on all true dual exhaust systems. The crossover pipe equalizes the exhaust pulses and allows the sounds waves to communicate between both banks of the engine. Not only does this usually improve torque in the low to mid rpm range, it also creates a deeper mellower tone both inside and outside of the vehicle and helps eliminate "back-rap" on deceleration.

Is an "X" pipe better than and "H" pipe?

Over the years, Flowmaster has performed extensive testing of all types of crossovers and “X” pipes, and has revealed no substantial benefits of one over the other in street applications. We have experienced that some specialized race applications such as small cubic inch engines and /or restricted (small bore) carburetors, will respond well to the addition of an “X” pipe over an “H” pipe.

[fiveliterbeater]

An X-pipe crossover will work better than the OEM set-up and your current set-up.J

agreed; forgot about the H-pipe setup. to be honest i never really considered those things to be an H setup; given the only way the pipes interconnnect is through that horizontal pipe in the middle. other than that, both sides run straight out the back from each side of the block.

[fiveliterbeater]

+ on that......you're just forgetting one major thing: i'm not changing my entire catback system; therefore the research you did only applies to people redoing their entire catback system.if you read my original post here: zer...r-m45

"Now please don't think that this setup will outperform a full catback system cause it won't. having a full catback system will net you the most HP possible when modifying your exhaust. this "mod", just gives you about half of the gain you would see from doing a full catback setup at about a fraction of the price"

....so as you can see, i never said my mod was better than aftermarket, just better than stock

[Sentientbydesign]

You're making an assumption that your mod was better than stock.

If we REALLY want to hypothesize about your setup, you now have pulses at half of their original frequency, but they are still being slowed down significantly by the muffler which was designed with slower exhaust in mind.

I hope you realize that I'm not trying to be a PITA, just trying to bring some clarity to this mod. If you'd like, I can go get AZHitman. He has an exhaust company...

[M4T5]

One thing I noticed about a lot of exhaust shops is, they do not all fully understand the concepts of having a crossover tube in place. Some are old schoolers that think two separate exhaust banks is the best way to gain the most power.....So unless AZHitman understands exhaust flow design, he will not be of much help.I'm sure he's more than capable of welding up and placing your exhaust up under your car or truck very nicely though.

J

[ken in az]

This thread has been trashed so now I will completely destroy it.

Thanks to those that think that infiniti has the best engineers on the planet to design the highest flowing exhaust system stock that yeilds the most horsepower ever out of this engine - now that's just dumb and you should never post in a performance related thread ever.

Thanks to those that give personal attacks! That's just silly

Thanks to those that tried to give some sort of educated response only to be disproven by others that provide no emperical evidence other than that's what they think or they have a friend that has an exhaust company - that's just pathetic man! I see you AZHitman

And finally I'd like to thank the academy!

For all non beleivers out there what he did was improve over the stock exhaust system. If you doubt me and say "oh he lost low end torque" cause that's what you read somewhere then go back under that rock you crawled out from to post because you have obviously never modified your vehicle.

I've got something up my sleave that will blow everyone's socks off about what they think these cars are capable of. 325hp - maybe at the wheels when I'm done with the first stage of mods

[nmgoodthing]

Did I just hear Charlie browns teacher?

[M4T5]

I don't believe I trashed anyone. I pointed out he did address a specific area of the exhaust system that looked very restrictive. I just added advise to place a crossover tube in place to even out exhaust flow.

325hp at the wheels? Hmm. I'm assuming you will accomplish this by the headers you spoke about in the past, deleting the cats or placing high flow ones in place, tuning, and your air intake kit. Did I miss anything?

J

[nmgoodthing]

Speculation is glorious until you hit the dyno.

[ken in az]

Speculation is glorious until you hit the dyno.

Something we agree on

[Sentientbydesign]

Are you ready to get off of the high horse?

I KNOW that Infiniti engineers didn't maximize performance on our cars. Why? Because it's still a luxury car maker

Here is another pro H/X pipe Article:

Virtually all V-8 exhaust systems can be refined by the addition of a balance or X-pipe. These have two potential attributes: increased power and reduced noise. Extensive dyno testing on both of these factors has indicated balance and X-pipes are 100 percent successful at reducing noise. The reductions amount to a minimum of 1 dB to a maximum of 3 dB with 2 dB being common. As far as power is concerned, things are a little less certain. With engines between about 325 to 550 hp, experience indicates that in about 60 percent of the cases (mostly with balance pipes), the engine can deliver as much as 12 additional hp, with 5-8 being the most common. The other remaining 40 percent tested showed virtually no change in output either up or down. Based on such results, we can conclude that a balance or X-pipe is always a positive asset and never a negative.

Only before and after dynos would show actual gains or losses.

[Sentientbydesign]

Oh...And one more thing. I have dyno charts with 286hp to the hubs and 273 to the wheels with a light flywheel and MINIMAL intake modifications.

This is out of a 3.5L V6. 325 out of a 4.5L V8, not that impressive.

[Mark Linkous]

Hello,This thread is getting it bit acrimonious. It seems "with all due respect" set off a poop storm.Fiveliterpeter, very cool that you have done something for your M. Coming from a Mustang, the absolute lack of an aftermarket has got to be frustrating. Hopefully, it will be first of many enhancements.

Some evil tourist (guessing) scrapped my rear bumper. There is a special place in hell for those who damage a man's car and bail. At least Magic Eraser and touch up paint make it tolerable. So pissed. Forgive the rant.ML