E85 + Borg Warner S360 Results

[Booztd 3]

Guys

I had an opportunity from Borg Warner Turbo Systems to try out a smaller turbo than the current 74mm Garrett I was running.

In order to gain a wider powerband, I stepped down to a 60mm inducer model...The goal was to match my current pump gas rwhp with a much better response time.

I spent a few weeks getting the car ironed out and running on the new turbo, and then getting it to run and drive on E85.

Friday, I got a chance to head up to Sound Performance for the tune. Normally I do all my own tuning on the car, but I dont know alot about E85, so I figured I would give them a shot at it.

I dont have the dyno chart, I tried to scan it several times, but my scanner is being a d!ck......The video lays it out pretty well though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHToCueBeyo

My previous 555rwhp dyno runs were performed on a dyno jet 210. Sound Performance uses a Mustang Dyno

The car is a F*(&#$ing blast to drive on the street now.....Hats off to SP, everyone was really nice, and they were truley impressed with the car, which is an oddity, due to the fact they had probably 1.5 milliion in cars sitting around up there..

Also got some props from the infamous supra street racer 'marco' He was up there fiddlejacking with his V12 Twin Turbo AMG Benz........

Some Pics











1000+rwhp 350Z



Peace

[mott6904]

i love your car. Ive been following your build for some time now. What did you gain by switching to e85?

[Booztd 3]

Once I get back to the dyno with my boost controller issue fixed (which it is now) I should be able to make around 600rwhp if the turbo is up to it......

That and E85 is available at the pump, and 2.80 a gallon....

[Cjmartz2k]

What's the exducer size on that turbo? I'm running a holset with a 60mm inducer and 84mm exducer. The BW's are supposed to spool a little better with like 1 more pound/minute, but all in all, pretty similar for equal sizes. What did you make on the 42R?

Time to turn that bad boy up to 1.8 bar and see what it'll do

*Edit--is this the extended tip?

[jdmser]

Are you still running the stock short block? Any head work? Bout how long did the tune take?

[Booztd 3]

What's the exducer size on that turbo? I'm running a holset with a 60mm inducer and 84mm exducer. The BW's are supposed to spool a little better with like 1 more pound/minute, but all in all, pretty similar for equal sizes. What did you make on the 42R?

Time to turn that bad boy up to 1.8 bar and see what it'll do

*Edit--is this the extended tip?

When I got this turbo there was no info on it, but BW has recently released the info on it....

From Full-Race's website

The TS360 is equivalent to a Twinscroll T4 GT35R, but with a higher flowing compressor and turbine. Recommended for use in quick spooling 420-650+whp applications, this is an excellent turbo for a very fast 4cyl street car. It uses a 7-bladed Extended-Tip compressor wheel w/ 60mm inducer & 83mm exducer rated at ~68lb/min. 4" inlet compressor housing with 3" outlet. Comes with a .91 A/R Twinscroll T4 hsg standard (recommended). 1.00 a/r T4 Twinscroll or .88 A/R T4 Singlescroll are also available. Moves more air than a 61mm GT3582R but with only a 60mm inducer compressor wheel to keep inertia low. Journal Bearing and Oil Cooled only (watercooling and BB CHRA not applicable). note: this is the turbo that the "HTA35" compressor wheel originates from.

The 42 made 555 on a dynojet dyno at 18psi, but it was just laggy as all hell....it made 680 on 24psi using torco 112

My goal is to go higher on the boost. We were seeing 88% injector duty's so I'm not sure how much more room I have to go on these....600rwhp on this turbo would be awesome!

PS. yes this is an ETT turbo

[Booztd 3]

Are you still running the stock short block? Any head work? Bout how long did the tune take?

Stock block, Tomei HG and ARP headstuds, stock head, Tomei Type A cams....

The tune was ~3 hours but i was there for probably 7. There was some downtime to troubleshoot some other issues I was having (new plugs, IAC wired wrong, etc)

SP was very generous in their flexibility on allowing me to fix my issues w/out charging extra

[Shocker]

Looks like a nice turbo, and looks like a good time at SP. Their new shop looks awesome! cant wait to see the high boost numbers, then it might be time for some larger injectors.

[USMCgetsome]

i don't know if it's just me or my hearing but when full boost hit the turbo WHINE seemed to fade and it was all motor after that. First time i've ever experienced it. Ever suck in babies with that thing?

[meet07]

thats one bad a$# 300z. Nothing but respect from me.

[Booztd 3]

i don't know if it's just me or my hearing but when full boost hit the turbo WHINE seemed to fade and it was all motor after that. First time i've ever experienced it. Ever suck in babies with that thing?

Its most likely the engine actually being louder than the turbo. You would not believe how loud these open wastegate dumps sound at 8400 rpms......def ear piercing!

The turbo does really SUCK, literaly. I held my hand next to it, and at idle, I revved the motor up to 3k or so, and the turbo was physically sucking my hand towards the inducer

[Darius]

Babies BEWARE!

I love reading your threads Andy. You're always coming back with new ideas and new setups.

Do you still have the auto transmission on there?

[Sil240]

There probably was a thread on the E85.But what did you have to change to run on E85?Just Fuel lines and Tuning?I heard that E85 was very corrosive.

[Darius]

Larger injectors and fuel pump than you'd normally size. What AFRs (lambda) are you tuning to since it isn't gasoline?

[Booztd 3]

There probably was a thread on the E85.But what did you have to change to run on E85?Just Fuel lines and Tuning?I heard that E85 was very corrosive.

That is a myth......E85 is not corrosive

Fun Fact of the Day

Quote »1. It is not corrosive to the fuel system or the engine. This is a myth and ethanol is often confused with methanol, which actually have corrosive properties. I´ve run my car for well over two years on E85 without a problem. Some models before 1988 on the other hand may have some parts that is not ethanol resistant. If we are talking Volvo´s, then this mainly applies to the non-electronically injection systems such as K-jet etc. Most cars with electronical fuel injection (EFI) should be resistant to ethanol. Some people say it would kill your engine right away and that you should buy there racefuel instead (of course they say )[/quote]The only change needed was draining the gas, and putting E85 in, along with additional tuning

[Booztd 3]

Do you still have the auto transmission on there?

It was no fun with the auto, and it really took away from it being a 'street' car.......I've been back on the 5spd for a few months now, and loving it!

[Booztd 3]

Larger injectors and fuel pump than you'd normally size. What AFRs (lambda) are you tuning to since it isn't gasoline?

Ironically, no changes were made mechanically. I already have 2 300ZX TT fuel pumps....and 1000cc injectors. My injectors were about 80% duty cycle on the dyno runs I was making.....still have a little room left out on the table

Examining the table below

Fuel ........................ AFRst ........ FARst ....... Equivalence Ratio ... LambdaGas stoich ................ 14.7 .......... 0.068 ................ 1 ................... 1Gas max power rich .... 12.5 .......... 0.08 ................. 1.176 .............. 0.8503Gas max power lean .... 13.23 ........ 0.0755 .............. 1.111 ............. 0.900E85 stoich .................. 9.765 ....... 0.10235 ............ 1 ................... 1E85 max power rich ...... 6.975 ....... 0.1434 .............. 1.40 ............... 0.7143E85 max power lean ..... 8.4687 ...... 0.118 ............... 1.153 .............. 0.8673E100 stoich ................ 9.0078 ...... 0.111 ............... 1 .................... 1E100 max power rich .... 6.429 ........ 0.155 .............. 1.4 .................. 0.714E100 max power lean .... 7.8 .... ...... 0.128 .............. 1.15 ................ 0.870

Notice that stoich on gasoline for lambda is actually 1, and that E85 stoich is actually 1 as well. What this mean, is that you actually tune for the same AFR's as you would a gasoline application

[Darius]

You mean tune for the same lambda's as a gasoline application right?

Lambda=1 is stoich for all fuels.

[Booztd 3]

yeah

When it all boils down, you shoot for 11.5 on the wideband under max load

[Booztd 3]

The real question, is whether I should step up to the 62mm and try for a smaller hotside on the turbo. The bigger inducer would give me better HP availability, and the smaller hotside should offset the spool cost of the larger inducer......my issue is, I might run out of injector.

I would love to see 600+ on E85 on a fully streetable car like this....

[Shocker]

I'd love to run e85 but there are no stations within 50 miles from me.

best of luck getting to 600.

[l0nestar]

Once I get back to the dyno with my boost controller issue fixed (which it is now) I should be able to make around 600rwhp if the turbo is up to it......

That and E85 is available at the pump, and 2.80 a gallon....

Bah. I'm 2.5 hrs away from you and E85 is $3.30/gal and Regular 87 / 89 octane is $3.59. There is only one local chain that carries E85 (5-6 stores).

Very nice numbers Andy. I'm always impressed with what you are coming up with.

Methinks I know the owner of that GTR.. Does it have a 3.0L stroker?

[krayton]

Booztd 3, you have your dyno graphs?

Just curious on your power and torque curves

[Booztd 3]

Booztd 3, you have your dyno graphs?

Just curious on your power and torque curves

The curves with the marking "2" on them are at wastegate pressure 19psi

The curves with the marking "1" on them are spiking at 26psi and falling to ~22

[krayton]

very cool. do you have the graph with your old setup running the 74mm garret?

trying to get an idea of a 600+ turbo with good response.

[Booztd 3]

very cool. do you have the graph with your old setup running the 74mm garret?

trying to get an idea of a 600+ turbo with good response.

"74mm garrett" and "good response" dont belong in the same sentance....

I'm pretty confident this turbo will reach 600 with a good hotside on it. It will take some tinkering on my part, but I believe I'll get it.

The turbo started losing its boost around 6300rpm or so......notice thats where the HP curve basically stays flat......if I'd have been able to sustain 27psi or so, i believe it would have gotten to 600rwhp

[HxC_Nismo]

what spark plug gap do you run with e85??? cause i have been thinking of converting

[Booztd 3]

what spark plug gap do you run with e85??? cause i have been thinking of converting

Sitting at 20 right now, might go to 18 or so when we shoot for higher boost

[SuicidnS13]

"74mm garrett" and "good response" dont belong in the same sentance....

I'm pretty confident this turbo will reach 600 with a good hotside on it. It will take some tinkering on my part, but I believe I'll get it.

The turbo started losing its boost around 6300rpm or so......notice thats where the HP curve basically stays flat......if I'd have been able to sustain 27psi or so, i believe it would have gotten to 600rwhp

Unless you have the 74mm on a 3 liter engine.

[Booztd 3]

Unless you have the 74mm on a 3 liter engine.

Curious to what rpm a 2JZ can fully spool at 74mm at......