drug testing people on welfare rant.....

[AppleBonker]

But alcohol is metabolized relatively quickly. As are some drugs. So the test is relatively flawed. Unless you actually go into the test messed up, there are some things you can still get away with.

[AppleBonker]

alcohol is a legal substance

Precisely my point. It's a random law without much explanation. Why is alcohol legal but marijuana, for example, is not? Because one group of people made it so. My whole argument is that I don't like people telling me what I can't do. If I want to own guns, that should be my decision. If I want to get an abortion, same deal. Hell, if I want to go home and go on a bender with cocaine and heroin, I don't want someone telling me I can't do that either.

[SullivanRacing06]

and im sure there are the idiots out there that are on felony probation that drink the night before their d/t and fail

pretty sure at least 20% of the people on welfare will fail their first test

[Dattebayo]

Whatever, forget this thread.

You want to hand more of our personal freedoms away just because you're angry about some pot-smoker in a money program.

[AppleBonker]

pretty sure at least 20% of the people on welfare will fail their first test

I'd say there's about an equal chance that the same percentage of this country's workforce would fail a drug test tomorrow if given one. Should we start testing them too? I'm sure the country would be better off if we just fired 20% of the workforce tomorrow.

[allenms240]

I fail to see an actual benefit from drug testing people who are in govt. money programs. How about all you college undergrads, hmm? How would you like it if the govt. started checking your piss to collect your Pell grant? Or how about for your unsubsidized loan? That's almost like free money.

Oh, I got it- We should test piss for everyone who wants to get their refund back from taxes, too. Yeah, that's the stuff! And lets not stop there, lets also have them piss test anyone who invests in govt. bonds too!

YOU MAKE MATTHEW LESKO CRY!

Bayo, this is stupid.
Test my, as I am a college undergrad. I am willing to do so because I am hiding nothing. I would have no problem doing this. And getting refund money back is money we PAID the government, we get it back because we paid too much.
My .02.
I am paying taxes for the legitimately poor and hungry folks out there who put the money towards food and rent to stay alive, not for people to stay high. Its s***. I agree with with the OP's idea. Drug test them. It will cost money, but then again, think of how much will be saved from giving crackheads their fix. Stereotypical yes, but it's also true. Those who oppose are hiding something, why wouldn't you want to clean your name?

[SullivanRacing06]

and the money their spending is what they earned and their choosing to spend it on the drugs..

if they earn it let them spend it on drugs, the point of this topic is to drug test people receiving free money from the government , if someone chooses to spend the money they earned working then let them throw it away...

if your receiving money because you "cant" work then why is it to much to ask to piss in a cup to get your free money???

to much to ask? dont think so

[AppleBonker]

The anger is that you shouldn't have to clear your name. That's not how this country works. I should ALWAYS be innocent until proven guilty. I can tell you I'm clean, but I guess you don't have to believe it. However, I'm definitely not going to take a drug test just to prove it to you. Everyone has dirt. You're ok with the government digging in this area, but isn't there an aspect of your life you wouldn't want people digging through?

[SullivanRacing06]

I fail to see an actual benefit from drug testing people who are in govt. money programs. How about all you college undergrads, hmm? How would you like it if the govt. started checking your piss to collect your Pell grant? Or how about for your unsubsidized loan? That's almost like free money.

Oh, I got it- We should test piss for everyone who wants to get their refund back from taxes, too. Yeah, that's the stuff! And lets not stop there, lets also have them piss test anyone who invests in govt. bonds too!

YOU MAKE MATTHEW LESKO CRY!

Bayo, this is stupid.
Test my, as I am a college undergrad. I am willing to do so because I am hiding nothing. I would have no problem doing this. And getting refund money back is money we PAID the government, we get it back because we paid too much.
My .02.
I am paying taxes for the legitimately poor and hungry folks out there who put the money towards food and rent to stay alive, not for people to stay high. Its bullsh*t. I agree with with the OP's idea. Drug test them. It will cost money, but then again, think of how much will be saved from giving crackheads their fix. Stereotypical yes, but it's also true. Those who oppose are hiding something, why wouldn't you want to clean your name?

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[allenms240]

alcohol is a legal substance

Precisely my point. It's a random law without much explanation. Why is alcohol legal but marijuana, for example, is not? Because one group of people made it so. My whole argument is that I don't like people telling me what I can't do. If I want to own guns, that should be my decision. If I want to get an abortion, same deal. Hell, if I want to go home and go on a bender with cocaine and heroin, I don't want someone telling me I can't do that either.

It doesn't bother you that these people do this with YOUR money? It bothers me. As I said, I pay for people to stay alive and healthy, not shoot up. And if you're really getting mad over this, get over yourself. This is a debate, expect rebuttal and criticisms, be open, and continue to reply to prove your point.

[AppleBonker]

to much to ask? dont think so

Slippery slope. Where would you draw the line. Should we drug test them, and then install a tracking device in them to monitor their travels? We should probably install video cameras and tap their phones so we can make sure the money is being spent in a way we seem fit. Right?

[allenms240]

The anger is that you shouldn't have to clear your name. That's not how this country works. I should ALWAYS be innocent until proven guilty. I can tell you I'm clean, but I guess you don't have to believe it. However, I'm definitely not going to take a drug test just to prove it to you. Everyone has dirt. You're ok with the government digging in this area, but isn't there an aspect of your life you wouldn't want people digging through?

To an extent, you're right. But these people are receiving FREE MONEY TO THEIR POCKET VIA GOVERNMENT. It's not any violation of privacy. Simply a requirement to collect, no one says you have to collect. Clear your name, prove yourself, THEN collect.

[SullivanRacing06]

who says the government dosent have a system that profiles what you say on the calls you make?

is it to much to ask, hey you get free money so piss in this cup once or twice a month!

[allenms240]

to much to ask? dont think so

Slippery slope. Where would you draw the line. Should we drug test them, and then install a tracking device in them to monitor their travels? We should probably install video cameras and tap their phones so we can make sure the money is being spent in a way we seem fit. Right?

I see your point. It would continue to get worse, but I still think that a drug test would weed out a ton of these people. Even if it does get that bad, then don;t collect. Once again, you don't HAVE to. But I understand that the people who are legitimately collecting these funds would be violated, but still its a requirement to collect.

[allenms240]

Welcome to controversial topics.

[AppleBonker]

It doesn't bother you that these people do this with YOUR money? It bothers me. As I said, I pay for people to stay alive and healthy, not shoot up. And if you're really getting mad over this, get over yourself. This is a debate, expect rebuttal and criticisms, be open, and continue to reply to prove your point.

It bothers me somewhat that they are even getting my money. What they do with it is beside the point. But that's a whole different debate. If they are going to do something that I don't believe should be illegal, no, it doesn't bother me. The difference between our points is that I refuse to tell other people how to live their lives. You want them to live the same life you do and follow your ideals. I don't care what the specific case is, I don't want you telling me what I can or can't do.

And, trust me, you're not making me mad. If you think you (or anyone else for that matter) has the ability to make me mad over the internet then it is you that needs to get over yourself.

[AZhitman]

There's nothing "slippery" about it. If you had the first clue as to how much welfare actually takes out of YOUR paycheck, you'd feel differently.

If you can afford drugs, you don't need MY money, so get your stoned, worthless a$$ of welfare.

Your personal freedoms END when I'm paying your bills.

Need I remind the "freedom and privacy" crowd that drug use is illegal. You want decriminalization? Good. Me too. Yes, I support decriminalization. BUT until then, it's still illegal. And even when it IS decriminalized, I'll STILL call for drug testing of welfare recipients, student loan recipients, disability recipients and food stamp applicants. Don't like it? Get your hands outta my pockets, then.

[xekushnr]

This thread makes me disgusted. Some of your hearts are in the right places but for all the wrong reasons, and some of your opinions are so incredibly illogical that it makes me sick. I will say this; a guy on welfare shouldn't be using all his money on drugs, but the government shouldn't have to make people jump through any more hoops than they already have to. A couple bad apples always ruin things for the good people, and this is one of those situations. Whether or not a person on welfare is using drugs, they are still on welfare. The money is still going. Whether he decides to use it for bread or booze, its still gone. You can argue that you can knock the people still using drugs off of welfare, but you're still opening the door for others. It will never end.

I know people are still going to pick apart every word I said here to mount an offensive, but that is MY opinion just as you voiced yours. The one comment about a straight A student who smokes weed getting his grant taken away for that fact honestly made me angry. I DO NOT believe that out of two equal students, the one person that smokes weed should lose his money just for the fact that he smokes weed. If he affords his schooling, rent, food and makes great grades, why should it matter? You would take his money just to give it to someone who doesn't smoke? Do you guys honestly believe that ALL people who smoke weed are bad people?

[AppleBonker]

But I understand that the people who are legitimately collecting these funds would be violated, but still its a requirement to collect.

Exactly. Why should the people who are upstanding, law-abiding citizens be violated to weed out a few others. Invasion of privacy and personal rights is never a good thing. These programs are designed to help, not punish.

[allenms240]

It doesn't bother you that these people do this with YOUR money? It bothers me. As I said, I pay for people to stay alive and healthy, not shoot up. And if you're really getting mad over this, get over yourself. This is a debate, expect rebuttal and criticisms, be open, and continue to reply to prove your point.

It bothers me somewhat that they are even getting my money. What they do with it is beside the point. But that's a whole different debate. If they are going to do something that I don't believe should be illegal, no, it doesn't bother me. The difference between our points is that I refuse to tell other people how to live their lives. You want them to live the same life you do and follow your ideals. I don't care what the specific case is, I don't want you telling me what I can or can't do.

And, trust me, you're not making me mad. If you think you (or anyone else for that matter) has the ability to make me mad over the internet then it is you that needs to get over yourself.

I was talking about the other poster who was actually getting mad. Not you.
It's the fact they are using MY money to spend on drugs. That's my problem. Spend it on food and clothes, not drugs. I understand your POV, but I still think, when receiving free government money that hard-working people earn, there should be certain requirements.

[Dattebayo]

It doesn't bother you that these people do this with YOUR money?

lol

Man, you sure are short-sighted! You also don't fully understand how different kinds of welfare are payed for...

[allenms240]

But I understand that the people who are legitimately collecting these funds would be violated, but still its a requirement to collect.

Exactly. Why should the people who are upstanding, law-abiding citizens be violated to weed out a few others. Invasion of privacy and personal rights is never a good thing. These programs are designed to help, not punish.

As said before by AZ, get your hands out of my pocket then.

And xekushnr, It's the fact that that straight A person is using the government money to buy his illegal drugs, when it is better off elsewhere.

[xekushnr]

Who's to say its the government's money he's using? Not the funds from a part time job, side job, parents, gift money from relatives, inheritance, lawsuit, etc....I understand where you guys are coming from, but I don't agree. I want you all to understand what I'm trying to say.

That may be my fault, I'm a little drunk. But I'm not on welfare, so I guess that's OK.

[AppleBonker]

My hands aren't in anyone's pocket. And I'll be doing everything in my power to keep it that way. But, s*** happens and you never know.

What makes the money better off somewhere else? Some of the smartest people I knew in college used marijuana. And a number of them have moved on to do great things. Had they not had the money, these tasks might not have been accomplished. There is no way for you or anyone else to predict what the money is going towards. Tuition money may be going to a moron who doesn't use drugs or alcohol but plays computer games (completely legal btw) all day and barely makes it through school. Or it could be funding someone who is a straight A student who uses drugs. And which one would perform better in the workforce? Funny thing is, you still don't know because you cannot predict the future.

[AppleBonker]

If you had the first clue as to how much welfare actually takes out of YOUR paycheck, you'd feel differently.

And Greg, c'mon man. What makes you think I don't have a clue where the money from my paycheck is going? There are many, MANY different places money goes from my paycheck that I'm not happy about. Welfare is probably the least of my concerns.

[allenms240]

xekushnr, If he has money to blow off on weed, then he doesn't need ours. I'm more focused on the fact that this is free money, from the government.
AppleBonker, how do you know the people who you knew could have done better and higher accomplishments without the use of drugs. You're right, we don't.
I'm not telling them not to do drugs, THAT's none of my business, it's my business when they're using our money to do it. If he has money to do drugs, then he doesn't need welfare/grants.

[AZhitman]

It doesn't bother you that these people do this with YOUR money?

lol

Man, you sure are short-sighted! You also don't fully understand how different kinds of welfare are payed for...

Educate me.

Because I do.

[AZhitman]

If you had the first clue as to how much welfare actually takes out of YOUR paycheck, you'd feel differently.

And Greg, c'mon man. What makes you think I don't have a clue where the money from my paycheck is going? There are many, MANY different places money goes from my paycheck that I'm not happy about. Welfare is probably the least of my concerns.

Not what I said.

[allenms240]

Off to do homework so I can continue to get my pell grant!
Ill be back!

[AppleBonker]

I'm not telling them not to do drugs, THAT's none of my business, it's my business when they're using our money to do it. If he has money to do drugs, then he doesn't need welfare/grants.

Well, if you really want to look at it that way, aren't we all receiving government handouts of some sort? With how many random things are subsidized (making them cheaper for us), would it be safe to claim that the money we save is actually a government "freebie"? If so, then I may be spending gov funds in a way that isn't deemed kosher.

Greg, I must be completely confused by what you meant then. Maybe I've got my rtard hat on right now, but what did I miss?