drag tips / doubble clutching

[Nismo_Freak]

C-Kwik is correct... Aznride my shiftpoints are for a 240SX KA24DE. They are there to put maximum torque to the ground. The KA DOES not like to be redlined in each gear. After 5500 the motor drastically loses torque... at redline the motor produces near its minimum torque.

[AznRide]

What you've been describing is what many people refer to as powershifting. Basically, holding the gas pedal down while you shift.

Winning races doesn't make you right.

Here is a site that explains it simply...

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/LR/FAQ_clutch.htm

DUDE, I am not describing how to powershift, I'm telling to DOUBLECLUTCH. I never said anything about powershifting. Learn how to read dumbass.

Again, Doubleclutching is when you are already in gear...nevermind, go fawking read my first post. Stupidass. How many trophies have you won so far? It takes time and skills to get trophies. I don't go to the store and buy them and say that I've earned it. YOU have no idea what you are saying.

[AznRide]

Sorry, but that is WAY wrong. Double clutching has nothing to do with the gas pedal. You can double clutch during un upshift or a downshift. During a shift, you press in the clutch, put the car in neutral. Let go of the clutch to at least the point where there is enough contact to get the gear inside the transmission moving so you can engage the dog gear, then push the clutch in again, shift into the gear you want, and release the clutch. The reason it is called doubleclutching is because you press and release the clutch twice during a single shift.

Dude, that is SO POWERSHIFTING. Doubleclutching has nothing to do with SHIFTING. Hence, the world DOUBLE CLUTCH!!! What you are saying is POWERSHIFTING. It's commonly used for drifter. Powershifting is another word for heal-to-toe shifting.

IN drag racing, if using YOUR technic, you would likely to shift TWICE, and that takes time. YOU don't have time in drag racing to do all that, but you can with POWERSHIFTING. The only reason that people uses POWERSHIFTING in drag racing is to ELIMINATE the droppage of RPM. The less of the RPM droppage, the less power it loses, therefore, could result in a better ET.

[AznRide]

C-Kwik is correct... Aznride my shiftpoints are for a 240SX KA24DE. They are there to put maximum torque to the ground. The KA DOES not like to be redlined in each gear. After 5500 the motor drastically loses torque... at redline the motor produces near its minimum torque.

And why do you guys think nissan is better than Honda?

Stock S14, that's 220 HP with more than 200 Tq, ball bearing turbo, loses to an Integra Type R, which is 200 HP and barely 139 TQ. I have a video to prove it.

Of course, you can always boost up the turbo, but still, a stock turbo car loses to a NA car is a shame. I'm not saying that it sucks, but get real.

No wonder my old civic with 160 HP ran 15.75 stock and one of the guys on this board has a SR20DET in his lightass S13 and ran 16.1

[C-Kwik]

DUDE, I am not describing how to powershift, I'm telling to DOUBLECLUTCH. I never said anything about powershifting. Learn how to read dumbass.

Again, Doubleclutching is when you are already in gear...nevermind, go fawking read my first post. Stupidass. How many trophies have you won so far? It takes time and skills to get trophies. I don't go to the store and buy them and say that I've earned it. YOU have no idea what you are saying.

Ok, you are right, you are not describing a powershift. What you are describing is a recipe for broken drivetrain parts. Driveline shock can cause gears to break if done too much. Hell, my first car, I broke the pinion gear and a transmision gear from abuse. And that car only had 115 HP. What you do describe is NOT double-clutching.

Go to google.com and do a search on double clutching. Most of the sites will describe a heel-toe double-clutch, but the double-clutch technique is listed. GOTO the site I posted. It lists just the procedures for a double-clutch upshift and downshift. So far I know not one person who uses that technique anywhere, let alone call it double-clutching. Prove to me that you are not the only person calling your "gear soup recipe" double-clutching and perhaps I will believe you.

So what does driving skill have anything to do with how smart you are or how much knowledge you have? A monkey can be taught to drive a car. But that doesn't mean a monkey can tell me what a word means. In other words, bragging about your trophies says nothing about your knowledge of terminology. Learn how to make a credible argument.

[Nismo_Freak]

And why do you guys think nissan is better than Honda?

Stock S14, that's 220 HP with more than 200 Tq, ball bearing turbo, loses to an Integra Type R, which is 200 HP and barely 139 TQ. I have a video to prove it.

Of course, you can always boost up the turbo, but still, a stock turbo car loses to a NA car is a shame. I'm not saying that it sucks, but get real.

No wonder my old civic with 160 HP ran 15.75 stock and one of the guys on this board has a SR20DET in his lightass S13 and ran 16.1

Driver... however the Type-R is a full 400 or so lbs lighter.

[AznRide]

If you can teach a monkey to drive a car, then I might as well call you god. The site you gave me was doubleclutching on a NON-SYNCHOS transmission anyways. Powershifting, is when you kept the RPM from dropping too much when shifting. Heel-to-toe shifting is exactly like the powershifting. Doubleclutching is a total different thing. Plus, what car did you have that you broke the pinion gear? an RC? Cause I broke that too. It's not like you doubleclutching in your daily driving anyways. Plus, I did tel you that I doubleclutch, that's why I lowered .25 of second. What you are saying is some dumbfawk like you can win trophies? Prove it.

[AznRide]

Driver... however the Type-R is a full 400 or so lbs lighter.

How much does the S14 weigh? Plus, the S14 has a WHOLE 20 more HP and like almost 100 more LBS of TQ. Explain that.

[C-Kwik]

Dude, that is SO POWERSHIFTING. Doubleclutching has nothing to do with SHIFTING. Hence, the world DOUBLE CLUTCH!!! What you are saying is POWERSHIFTING. It's commonly used for drifter. Powershifting is another word for heal-to-toe shifting.

IN drag racing, if using YOUR technic, you would likely to shift TWICE, and that takes time. YOU don't have time in drag racing to do all that, but you can with POWERSHIFTING. The only reason that people uses POWERSHIFTING in drag racing is to ELIMINATE the droppage of RPM. The less of the RPM droppage, the less power it loses, therefore, could result in a better ET.

Look up Heel-toe downshifting as well. Learn to spell it as well. You heAl diseases. You use your heEl to kill bugs. Heel-Toe downshifting is an entirely different technique that is used in road-racing to set up in the correct gear while you are braking for the next turn. But since you don't win trophies for road racing, I'll let it go.

I've never said double-clutching(not your gear soup recipe definition) is used in drag racing. Frankly, any modern car with working syncros do not need double-clutching. Double-clutching was used before transmissions had syncros. You'll find a lot of drivers who race vintage race cars using the technique since their trannys lack syncros.

Before you end up putting BOTH feet in your mouth, perhaps, take my advice and run a search on the internet on Double-Clutching and Heel-Toe Downshifts.

[C-Kwik]

How much does the S14 weigh? Plus, the S14 has a WHOLE 20 more HP and like almost 100 more LBS of TQ. Explain that.

An F1 car makes upwards of 750 HP at about 18,000 RPM or so. I don't know exactly where the peak HP is made, but if I calculate the torque for 750 HP at 18,000 RPM, it comes out to only 218 lb-ft of torque. Yet they absolutely haul ***. Why, you ask? In one word, leverage. A motor that revs higher can stay in a lower gear longer. And a lower gear will allow more torque to the ground. So while even the SR is making almost as much torque as an F1 car, it has to shift to a taller gear well before the F1 car does. Or if you were to gear the F1 car so that at redline, it shifted at the same speeds as the SR, the F1 car would put an obscene amount of torque to the ground compared to the SR.

HP is a calculation of how much work is done. Theoretically, if you were to measure torque at the wheels for the entire length of a 1/4 mile run, you would find that each time you shift, you would be losing torque at the next higher gear. But if you calculate HP from the torque seen at the wheels, you would see the HP curve just repeated over and over. You can calculate HP from the torque measured at the crankshaft or the wheels, regardless of what gear you are in, and HP will be the same at the same give RPM. And since I'm talking in theory, I am ignoring drivetrain losses.

In Summary, While Torque is responsible for the actual turning force that moves your car, the Peak HP is a better indication of how fast the car will be, because it tells you what the engine's actual potential is.

Here is a good site explaining this...

http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

[C-Kwik]

If you can teach a monkey to drive a car, then I might as well call you god. The site you gave me was doubleclutching on a NON-SYNCHOS transmission anyways. Powershifting, is when you kept the RPM from dropping too much when shifting. Heel-to-toe shifting is exactly like the powershifting. Doubleclutching is a total different thing. Plus, what car did you have that you broke the pinion gear? an RC? Cause I broke that too. It's not like you doubleclutching in your daily driving anyways. Plus, I did tel you that I doubleclutch, that's why I lowered .25 of second. What you are saying is some dumbfawk like you can win trophies? Prove it.

So why is the technique different for a non-syncro car than a car with syncros? It's still the same procedure. You're absolutely reaching on this one.

Heel-Toe shifting is not double-clutching. I heel-toe all the time on the street so that when I go to road races it feels quite natural.

Did your RC car have 115 HP? It was an 83 Toyota Celica. Not sure what relevance that had, but have at it.

So can you say with absolute certainty that gear souping accounted for the .25 seconds? A drop in air temperature can have a similar effect. You could have actually just gotten better overall. You might have gotten a great launch. Hell I ran .2 seconds faster when I had my S13 just from having a slipping clutch. It slipped enough so that I was in the powerband early, and it would catch while I was in the powerband, so I made more overall torque to the ground.

You seem to keep bringing up the trophies like we are supposed to be so impressed. Yet, I don't see you on the NHRA circuit driving 5 second funny cars. And frankly, even if you did, doesn't mean you have any intelligence. Try making an argument based on the relevant factors. You sound like the attorneys I argue with that try to stack up chips that are worthless.

[AznRide]

Look up Heel-toe downshifting as well. Learn to spell it as well. You heAl diseases. You use your heEl to kill bugs. Heel-Toe downshifting is an entirely different technique that is used in road-racing to set up in the correct gear while you are braking for the next turn. But since you don't win trophies for road racing, I'll let it go.

I've never said double-clutching(not your gear soup recipe definition) is used in drag racing. Frankly, any modern car with working syncros do not need double-clutching. Double-clutching was used before transmissions had syncros. You'll find a lot of drivers who race vintage race cars using the technique since their trannys lack syncros.

Before you end up putting BOTH feet in your mouth, perhaps, take my advice and run a search on the internet on Double-Clutching and Heel-Toe Downshifts.

So what you are trying to say that I can't spell? Why don't you give me an F and go jerk off on my spelling B paper. I suppose you win trophies for road racing huh? What kinda transmission are you refering to that doesn't have synchos? I don't wanna take you fawking advice on looking up whatever you think is right. When DID I ever said something about gear soupe recipe sh*t? You are the one that started all that. Why don't you put your feet in your mouth, oh wait, you ran out of feet already huh? Stick a **** in it or something.

[AznRide]

An F1 car makes upwards of 750 HP at about 18,000 RPM or so. I don't know exactly where the peak HP is made, but if I calculate the torque for 750 HP at 18,000 RPM, it comes out to only 218 lb-ft of torque. Yet they absolutely haul ***. Why, you ask? In one word, leverage. A motor that revs higher can stay in a lower gear longer. And a lower gear will allow more torque to the ground. So while even the SR is making almost as much torque as an F1 car, it has to shift to a taller gear well before the F1 car does. Or if you were to gear the F1 car so that at redline, it shifted at the same speeds as the SR, the F1 car would put an obscene amount of torque to the ground compared to the SR.

HP is a calculation of how much work is done. Theoretically, if you were to measure torque at the wheels for the entire length of a 1/4 mile run, you would find that each time you shift, you would be losing torque at the next higher gear. But if you calculate HP from the torque seen at the wheels, you would see the HP curve just repeated over and over. You can calculate HP from the torque measured at the crankshaft or the wheels, regardless of what gear you are in, and HP will be the same at the same give RPM. And since I'm talking in theory, I am ignoring drivetrain losses.

In Summary, While Torque is responsible for the actual turning force that moves your car, the Peak HP is a better indication of how fast the car will be, because it tells you what the engine's actual potential is.

Here is a good site explaining this...

http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

Okay, I was comparing between an Integra Type R and a S14, while you comparing...or translating the theory of a S14 with a F1. the ITR doesn't have 18000 RPM FYI. How you guys always flame on Honda, why am I proving that it's not?

[AznRide]

So why is the technique different for a non-syncro car than a car with syncros? It's still the same procedure. You're absolutely reaching on this one.

Heel-Toe shifting is not double-clutching. I heel-toe all the time on the street so that when I go to road races it feels quite natural.

Did your RC car have 115 HP? It was an 83 Toyota Celica. Not sure what relevance that had, but have at it.

So can you say with absolute certainty that gear souping accounted for the .25 seconds? A drop in air temperature can have a similar effect. You could have actually just gotten better overall. You might have gotten a great launch. Hell I ran .2 seconds faster when I had my S13 just from having a slipping clutch. It slipped enough so that I was in the powerband early, and it would catch while I was in the powerband, so I made more overall torque to the ground.

You seem to keep bringing up the trophies like we are supposed to be so impressed. Yet, I don't see you on the NHRA circuit driving 5 second funny cars. And frankly, even if you did, doesn't mean you have any intelligence. Try making an argument based on the relevant factors. You sound like the attorneys I argue with that try to stack up chips that are worthless.

I meant that it uses the same technique, but of course, without braking and serves the same purpose. I did say that it's his car, he has to try it out, but for ME, it worked.

I didn't even try to impress anyone about my trophies. If i was, i would rub it on your face already. If i CAN be in the NHRA, i WOULD, wouldn't you? so FRANKLY, you are saying that pros driver are stupid? I'm sure you are really smart kiddo.

I tried racing with different technique that day. I ran my best, normal, with 16ish sec. I doubleclutched twice to get to 15.75. My other ones, my 3rd gear syncho was bad, so i missed shift, and barely get out of 3rd gear before the finish line, doubleclutched twice still, and ran 15.8ish. I i drive normal, i would hit 16 all day. ANd i DID said that it was just me and my car, he has to try it out.

Man, if you think you're right, then you're right. I think I'm right, so I'm right. Either way, I'm not here to make war.

Also, keep on trying to get that monkey to drive a car, maybe after that, he'll teach YOU how to drive your car. Then you both will be happy. Peace

[C-Kwik]

So what you are trying to say that I can't spell? Why don't you give me an F and go jerk off on my spelling B paper. I suppose you win trophies for road racing huh? What kinda transmission are you refering to that doesn't have synchos? I don't wanna take you fawking advice on looking up whatever you think is right. When DID I ever said something about gear soupe recipe sh*t? You are the one that started all that. Why don't you put your feet in your mouth, oh wait, you ran out of feet already huh? Stick a **** in it or something.

Manual transmissions didn't always have syncros. There was a time when everyone had to double-clutch a manual transmission.

That's fine, you don't have to do anything you don't want to. But you are seriously making an *** of yourself. If you want to act like a kid and hide behind your trophies, that's fine. I only tried to correct you with correct information, and backed it up with references. You've backed it up with trophies. And I can't prove anything to you unless you choose to look at it. But yet, you've offered not one reference or bit of proof otherwise....

Well, unfortunately, I don't agree with calling what you do a double-clutch. So had to make up a phrase. It is highly sarcastic, but it describes what I think of it. When you can prove to me that it is called a double-clutch, I will call it that.

[themadscientist]

I you kids can't get along we will have to confiscate your manual transmissions and relegate you to slushboxes, and not Lencos either!

[C-Kwik]

Okay, I was comparing between an Integra Type R and a S14, while you comparing...or translating the theory of a S14 with a F1. the ITR doesn't have 18000 RPM FYI. How you guys always flame on Honda, why am I proving that it's not?

The properties of torque and HP does not change just because it's an F1 car. I was merely making a point. The Integra makes less torque but is able to rev higher while still making a usable amount of torque. That's why the HP level is so high relative to the amount of torque. You asked it to be explained...I did exaclty that.

And I wasn't Honda bashing. While I don't care to own one, I am a fan of the technology they use. In fact, I've stuck up for Hondas plenty of times on this list.

Here's a recent one by the way...http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....ber=3

[C-Kwik]

I meant that it uses the same technique, but of course, without braking and serves the same purpose. I did say that it's his car, he has to try it out, but for ME, it worked.

I didn't even try to impress anyone about my trophies. If i was, i would rub it on your face already. If i CAN be in the NHRA, i WOULD, wouldn't you? so FRANKLY, you are saying that pros driver are stupid? I'm sure you are really smart kiddo.

I tried racing with different technique that day. I ran my best, normal, with 16ish sec. I doubleclutched twice to get to 15.75. My other ones, my 3rd gear syncho was bad, so i missed shift, and barely get out of 3rd gear before the finish line, doubleclutched twice still, and ran 15.8ish. I i drive normal, i would hit 16 all day. ANd i DID said that it was just me and my car, he has to try it out.

Man, if you think you're right, then you're right. I think I'm right, so I'm right. Either way, I'm not here to make war.

Also, keep on trying to get that monkey to drive a car, maybe after that, he'll teach YOU how to drive your car. Then you both will be happy. Peace

The problem is what you are doing and what is described on the website are two different things. And who are you talking about. You never said it was anyone's car?

Then why did you mention the trophies? You seemed to think it was enough to build your credibility on.

Well if you were good enough, you would probably be in it already, huh? And I would only do mostly for the money. I'd rather be road racing myself, but I would have no problem getting to 300 mph in 5 seconds to earn money.

Well it seems you found the secret recipe for fast 1/4 mile times. But from what you are saying, would I not be able to run a 10 second 1/4 mile if I "gear souped" it all the way down the track?

As far as missed shifts, they tend not to kill your times too badly unless you are dealing with very fast cars. I ate a shift real bad on a 1/4 mile run before. Since the car is still moving, I was still moving towards the finish line. I ended up at a 15.8 at only 78 mph. This was in a car that could run 15.7 as a consistent best.

So I teach a monkey and then he teaches me? What kind of logic do you have. Was that an insult?

I'm still waiting for proof....

[AznRide]

Originally posted by C-Kwik "]The problem is what you are doing and what is described on the website are two different things. And who are you talking about. You never said it was anyone's car?

See, there was a starter of this thread, and who do you think i was talking to? I don't even know you, and why are you trying to say that I was talking to you and giving you tips and sh*t?

Then why did you mention the trophies? You seemed to think it was enough to build your credibility on.

I mentioned because I earned it, and I have knowledge about it, which I did. I dont go buy my trophies like you.

Well if you were good enough, you would probably be in it already, huh? And I would only do mostly for the money. I'd rather be road racing myself, but I would have no problem getting to 300 mph in 5 seconds to earn money.

I would be in what? My old civic? Do you have any idea that I have to go through when my car was stolen? After i put money into it, including swap, maintenents, stereo system, rims, etc and some dumbfawk would walk up in my driveway, disengaged the alarm, and drove my car away? How do you fawking feel? That car was the only thing that I had. Sometimes I want to cry at night, because I missed something in my life. Sure, it's a honda, but it was MY honda, my ONLY Honda.

Anyways, if you are good, doesn't mean that you are gonna be in a pro leaque. You work your way up there, have connections, etc. Road racers like you should be hang and burn my the stakes anyways. You don't care for other lives. This is an example of why the cops harrasses suped up cars becaus they think that all those people that drive nice cars road race.

sorry about my first statement, but you need to make your point clearer.

Well it seems you found the secret recipe for fast 1/4 mile times. But from what you are saying, would I not be able to run a 10 second 1/4 mile if I "gear souped" it all the way down the track?

1/4 = 400 meters. Have you been watching the F&F lately? It's not a 2 miles race at all. Plus, going 10 seconds, you need to go up to about 140 MPH by the end of the track...anyways, you're point of is stupid. Shut up already.

As far as missed shifts, they tend not to kill your times too badly unless you are dealing with very fast cars. I ate a shift real bad on a 1/4 mile run before. Since the car is still moving, I was still moving towards the finish line. I ended up at a 15.8 at only 78 mph. This was in a car that could run 15.7 as a consistent best.

Did I say that it killed my time by like a second? If you know how to read, it only killed my time about .1 of a second. Plus, it all depends on the altitute level and the temperature anyways.

So I teach a monkey and then he teaches me? What kind of logic do you have. Was that an insult?

If you don't think that was an insult, then you should try to live outside the box. Instead of living INSIDE the box and having me feeding you bananas through a hole.

I'm still waiting for proof....

Proof of...

[Nismo_Freak]

Tone it down ... keep the personal insults to a minimum ... arguing about points is fine, but this feeding monkeys bananas bit is kinda far.

<twirls lock and key>

[AznRide]

Tone it down ... keep the personal insults to a minimum ... arguing about points is fine, but this feeding monkeys bananas bit is kinda far.

<twirls lock and key>

I hope you didn't think I said "that" banana.

[C-Kwik]

See, there was a starter of this thread, and who do you think i was talking to? I don't even know you, and why are you trying to say that I was talking to you and giving you tips and sh*t?

You responded to my post didn't you?

I mentioned because I earned it, and I have knowledge about it, which I did. I dont go buy my trophies like you.

Yeah, but how does that have any relavance to this thread? We are talking about terminology. At least we were. I don't care if you are John Force, if you're terminology is wrong, it is wrong. Saying you have won races just isn't adding any strength to your argument.

I would be in what? My old civic? Do you have any idea that I have to go through when my car was stolen? After i put money into it, including swap, maintenents, stereo system, rims, etc and some dumbfawk would walk up in my driveway, disengaged the alarm, and drove my car away? How do you fawking feel? That car was the only thing that I had. Sometimes I want to cry at night, because I missed something in my life. Sure, it's a honda, but it was MY honda, my ONLY Honda.

I was referring to the NHRA. And I never said anything about your Civic. Frankly, I do feel bad for you about your Honda. Total Thefts are never easy. I know. I handle claims for them at work. But I didn't steal it, so why are you throwing it at me?

Anyways, if you are good, doesn't mean that you are gonna be in a pro leaque. You work your way up there, have connections, etc. Road racers like you should be hang and burn my the stakes anyways. You don't care for other lives. This is an example of why the cops harrasses suped up cars becaus they think that all those people that drive nice cars road race.

Road racing - I'm referring to racing on race tracks. The kind of tracks I race on has turns in it. 1/4 mile tracks aren't the only things you can race on. Or do you live your life a quarter mile at a time and can't see beyond using your steering wheel for nothing more than handlebars?

1/4 = 400 meters. Have you been watching the F&F lately? It's not a 2 miles race at all. Plus, going 10 seconds, you need to go up to about 140 MPH by the end of the track...anyways, you're point of is stupid. Shut up already.

Who said it was 2 miles? I swear you are reading something else at the same time. I was bringing up a point using some sarcasm. Since you seem to think your gear soup method is so effective, why couldn't you just constantly do that the entire length of the track and "kick" your way down to the end of the track? And a 1/4 mile is 1320 feet. 400 meters is close, but not exactly a 1/4 mile. But again, what's the relevance?

Did I say that it killed my time by like a second? If you know how to read, it only killed my time about .1 of a second. Plus, it all depends on the altitute level and the temperature anyways.

Now you're getting it. You inferred that your gear soup driving somehow magically saved your time. And you do recognize that there are other factors that affect the times. So how can you with absolute certainty say that the gear soup method works.

If you don't think that was an insult, then you should try to live outside the box. Instead of living INSIDE the box and having me feeding you bananas through a hole.

Again, you should detect the sarcasm when I responded. The previous attempt at an insult and this one doesn't phase me. In other words, it's a poor insult.

Proof of...

That double-clutching is gear souping or whatever it is you wanna call the "technique" you use at the drag strip. I've given you a link as proof and told you how you can search for the proof. Yet you offer nothing other than your trophies.

[AznRide]

your link is stupid. PERIOD. I don't go online and search for stupid poeple that write how to double clutch in a NON Synchos transmission. Anyways, I responded to your post because you responded to me. YOU started talking to me first. Find some other people to talk to, cause I really don't wanna talk to your f***** *** right now. If you think you can double clutch the whole way down to the finish line, you must be ONE FAWKING IDIOT!!!! I saved .25 of second doubleclutching twice, and taht's ALL I can Doubleclutch. Go do some reasearch and argue with someone else then, cause i'm done talking to a loser like you. And what the fawk is gear soup? Is that what you rice calli people call it? Plus, road racing and track racing are 2 different thing. I don't live in cali, but I KNOW that you street race more than track race. Don't think that I'm stupid with your little cover story there. That's why your dumb *** friends ended up in pieces after street racing accidents. You sound more and more like a street racer to me then any real racer. Go watch your damn F&F movie again fag.