M-Series "Tramlining"/Steering Issues

[m35xlou1]

Your Complaint Information is successfully submitted.
Your Confirmation number (ODI Number) is: 10384559

[06M4.5]

My ODI ID Number : 10384448

[SteveTheTech]

I'm curious too if any of you hear anything.

I currently have a J30t, G35x and this M35x, which is driving me crazy. The M doesn't have the same stability as the j or the g.

Sounds like you need some tires. The tread may be sufficient and they may visually look ok but
The M has more weight than the G so it can sit into turns better than the G but the G is lighter and a little more fun to push.

This is not at all a new debate though. There are multiple sources here that describe this case and attempts to get the dealers all over North America to fix it.

Tire balance, wear and inflation are ultimately the owners responsibility to inspect and stay on top of.After the 12mo/12k mile warranty for fitment and adjustment expires this is no longer covered by the standard warranty. Many components are individually covered by one warranty or another but tire wear caused by what has been deemed to be normal conditions. For some of you new owners I suggest educating yourself on tire choices and options, directional tires will exasperate this once they wear beyond 50%.

The M is not the only car to have this issue. It is quite common in high line vehicles (5 series in many years and some MBs ) fortunate for you new to the party there is some information here that might help you get the most out of your M. No matter what the dealers tell you. There are special wheel balancers and alignment procedures that can help, but the best hope your car has is an educated owner.

[06M4.5]

the tire is not the fix in the problem with the front suspension of the M. Masking a problem with getting good tires is like using a band-aid, the problem is still there you just feel it less.

IMO the steering has been made too light because the M's are so heavy. I think it's the rack that has issues.

and yes I have tried 3 different sets of tires all balanced on 3 diff wheels (2 set are new)

car has gone thru 2 diff alignments

2 sets of springs

new set of sway bar links

4 wheel brake job (OEM rotors)

all this has been done all with in 800 miles. and I'll throw this in I even have 2 oil & filter changes done with less than 700 miles.

and yes my last car was a 2003 525i with 49k miles.

and I agree getting the best tire is a must but the M's have other issues with it's front suspension.

the question is will Infiniti do something about it? most likely not. Someone has to die first to get any responce from them. and if you think thats not true look at Toyota.

[SteveTheTech]

the tire is not the fix in the problem with the front suspension of the M. Masking a problem with getting good tires is like using a band-aid, the problem is still there you just feel it less.

the question is will Infiniti do something about it? most likely not. Someone has to die first to get any responce from them. and if you think thats not true look at Toyota.

It's been 5 years and still no one has died and that includes many of the original owners (who had much more pull than second owners ever could) who lease their cars. This issue has been out since they were new, but it doesn't happen to everyone and has more to do with the road surface being driven on.

The M has about 1/2 the positive caster of many other cars. There's nothing you can really do to fix it other than change the suspension geometry. It sounds like you have had several attempts made to fix something that just might not be broken. Many of the x models have updated steering racks and some of them still have an issue.

Lets look at Toyota...It was determined after analyizing every line of code in the computer of the effected vehicles that each one of the wrecks was caused by operator error.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20110209 ... lectronics
Yes they cheated the system for years, yes some of their cars were not properly recalled. But the car wasn't at fault it was dirty business tactics. For that they should pay, not faulty parts.

Floor mats are another thing that is not really only plaguing Toyotas but all cars. Anyone who still has more than 1 floor mat or a missing or broken retainer clip after hearing some of the horror stories should not be allowed to drive on public roads.

Good Luck with your fight...

[EniGmA1987]

The M has about 1/2 the positive caster of many other cars. There's nothing you can really do to fix it other than change the suspension geometry.

What does that mean exactly "1/2 the positive caster"? What is the caster and can it be adjusted? What is "normal" and why do we have less?
And what changes do you mean that we could have done to change the suspension geometry to help fix the issue and make the cars track straighter?

[SteveTheTech]

The average Infiniti sedan average is something like 7 degrees of positive caster, the M is 3.2ish I think. It decreases effort but does not have as much of the natural inclination to stay straight on the highway.

Caster is not an often dealt with issue and the only way to increase it (theoretically) would be move the position of the upper ball joint. Sounds simple...but with the awd model there is next to no allowance for redesigning the upper link, at least without adversely effecting several other things. This would be a perfect case for unintended consequences.

alignment-settings-spec-for-2006-m45-sport-t414374.html
m35x-steering-pull-suggestions-to-fix-t387028.htm
06-m35-steering-issue-clarification-t449990.html

[rhk]

Steve's comments are spot on.
When I bought my new M35X in March of 2009 the test drive did not show the car's tendency to wander at highway speed. However; Infiniti replaced the Goodyear RSA tires with Michelin Primacy tires, put in a new updated steering rack, and completed a 4 wheel alignment with increased toe in. Those things coupled with Tire Rack info on tramlining [found on the Tire Rack website] to not over inflate the tires, I keep the tires at the recommended 33 psi year round, made driving the Infiniti at highway speeds a much better experience. If you inflate the tires to 35-38 psi cold, your handling will be better, but the M will be more likley to tramline. The M seems very, very sensitive to tire pressure. Understandable when you consider it weighs over 4000 lbs. That being said, I wish the M was more self centering like my 7 previous Saabs, those cars tracked amazingly well at 70-80 mph, but everything else broke. But low lease payments at 24-36 months kept me coming back without having to worry about a total lack of reliability.

[EniGmA1987]

Caster is not an often dealt with issue and the only way to increase it (theoretically) would be move the position of the upper ball joint.

Moving the upper ball joint really is something that can be done? Could I take it to an Infiniti dealership and have them do something like that? And what exactly would I tell them? I dont think the person would understand if I just said "I want to move my upper ball joint to increase the caster"



It looks like down in that thread you posted that we can fix the issue a bit by getting +0.04 degrees toe-in? +0.02 on each side?

[SteveTheTech]

Could I take it to an Infiniti dealership and have them do something like that?

we can fix the issue a bit by getting +0.04 degrees toe-in? +0.02 on each side?

No (that was the reasoning for the hypthetically)

Yes, that also mainly to keep the tires from featheredging.

There is no way to change caster without adversely effecting camber,steer ahead, KPI (King Pin Inclination).

It could be done (in theory) but I doubt it ever will as the cost of R&D would defeat the retail cost or an aftermarket park. Most of these cars are out of if not will be out of warranty very soon so....the likelihood is pretty low.

[06M4.5]

so any updates on this problem yet???

[antzrus]

so any updates on this problem yet???

Once I put on the Conti's (now the DWS v1.0) my tramlining problems disappeared a few years back.

[06M4.5]

Thanks antzrus but I was asking on the NHTSA side

[raysworld718]

New suspension. Tires definitely not in bad shape. Aligned wheels. Been having pretty similar issue. Did a wheel balance once before and stopped for while. Will re-do. Definitely a concern if it continues..

-2006 M35 Sport