Do it yourself 302 swap info.

[302VertMan]

This is my recent E-mail to Black on Gold (NICO Member)Ive had alot of questions on the 302 swap so here we go....

whats up man. I've had alot of people asking me about the swap, and honestly im just a 19 year old kid trying this swap out in my yard. I've done the whole turbo thing on my old sohc, witch gave me alot of mechanical and fabrication skills, so it's making this swap a little easier.

My project is at a standstill right now, mostly because i've ran into another problem. I decided to go with an auto transmission, mostly because the one that came with the drag motor has a shift kit and other junk in it to make is just about better than a 5spd. the problem is that with the auto transmission's bellhousing being so much bigger than one on the 5spd mustang transmission, it makes it so the bellhousing on the transmission hits the firewall at the same time that the oil pan hits the power steering rack (on a mustang, the power steering rack is in front of the crossmember and the tunnel on the body is bigger so the transmission fits well). Because of this problem i am going to have to cut a decent chunk of the oil pan out to make it clear the power steering rack, and i may possibly have to cut/ or beat some of the firewall out for even more clearance, but i haven't had the time recently to do this. This is all a new experience for me so I am going to post my ongoing info on a 302 swap thread, so please keep updated on the new 302 thread and keep me posted on your ideas towards the whole 302 swap.

Ok first of all, why a 302 vs a 305 or 350

1) More stock hp and tq vs. a 305 chevy2) better stock rpm capabilities than the 3053) front mounted distributor makes install alot easier4) and even the most diehard chevy guy can admit that the 302 has the ultimate performance sound, Ford's cylinder head design helps this out alot. (im a diehard Chevy fan, and i dispise mustangs, but the 302 was a no brainer. The Chevy motors are great, but are mostly designed for trucks. 302's are more performance oriented. Plus every junkyard has a 302 laying arround)

Next, why American Muscle vs sr/rb, and ka power. 1)Anyone who has driven a car with more tourqe than horsepower can explain this one to ya 2)lets go over my build cost so farBuilt engine and built transmission out of a 13.2e/t mustang $200Barely used Edelbrock carb $50Ford 9"rearend freeCrane blue anodized roller rockers $50250 shot zex nitrous kit and zex purge $300(These prices are not "once in a lifetime, great buy prices, you can get a great deal anywhere, you just have to look)Cost of perfectly running 1993 240 Convertable $1000

Total build cost so far $1,600Cost of having the ultimate 240 vert/302 nitrous fed monster = Priceless

On to the Build

First step:

-Remove old engine transmission, and exhaust but leave all wiring harnneses uncut and leave the harness' installed. -Remove all ac lines, radiator, ac radiator, all intake piping from out of the fender, the coil pack, etc.(pretty much remove everything out from under the hood except for the wiring harnesses, fuse box, and brake stuff. LEAVE ALL POWER STEERING STUFF IN THE SHELL!!

Step 2. Making all electrical components work.

-As you will notice, when you hook a battery up to the empty shell, everything electrical works when you turn the key ecept for the top (vert only) and parking lights. Here is how you fix that: -Under the 240 FAQ at the top of the 240 and silvia page, go to the (how to swap out your auto transmission for a 5 spd post) It will have all the pics and info you need.

Ok Now...

-Remove the stock engine mounts. They are connected with a single bolt (you can't see it unless you're under the car) -Powerwash the whole under hood area, trust me, the install will go alot easier when you can see everything clearly, and this also gives you a chance to paint under the hood. The outside of my 240 is going to be black, so i recently painted under the hood gloss black.-

Thanx Chris (302vertman)


Modified by 302VertMan at 8:31 AM 11/3/2006

[dickie]

cool stuff dude. 302's are cheap motors and (biased opinion i admit) more reliable and cheaper to find parts for than their chevy counterparts.

id have to imagine that this would be a great undertaking for someone who wants a street-and-strip car on a budget. keep us updated, and if you work something out in detail and with more pics, id like to write it up for our articles section.

[nvrplzd240]

sweet

keep us updated

[the_momo]

i had to do similar modification to my coupe when i put in the sbc 350 and th350 auto. what i did

1. i cut the trans hump out, then reshaped a new one with the trans in the car.2. cut the sump off of the pan. this took some time to get right. i cut the pan as much as possible (just under the crank journals) then made a deeper sump area behind the rack. i can really give you any measurements since the pan is different, but doing the extra work on a pan will make the motor fit a lot better. evantually im going to do a front sump and make a deep pan from aluminum. just a lot of measuring and test fitting. cutting a little more out of the firewall will help the location of the oil sump. also, since you have a front mounted distributor, take advantage of that and move the motor as far back as possible. i have my dist about 1/8" from the firewall. this is the best i can give now, and you can see my hood clearance issues.....but i have a higher plenum victor jr intake mani. stock would fit better, or a low rise.

[the_momo]

another

[futeki_s13]

[Black on Gold]

Yup, Thanks alot for the email Chris. I replied. I honestly want to do this one day. I plan to swap quite a few engines during my life time...im sure i'll be on NICO in another 50 years.

[the_momo]

thank you for your wordless opinion. please tell me you hand built your motor and rewired the entire thing because your cars factory wire harness was completely ruined. then you can say things like that.

[Black on Gold]

thank you for your wordless opinion. please tell me you hand built your motor and rewired the entire thing because your cars factory wire harness was completely ruined. then you can say things like that.

my opinion though is... 1st pic 2nd pic lol

[hpmachine]

Yes!!! this is awesome. ford had the front mount distributor FTW. cutting the firewall isn't a huge hassle. guys do it all the time with street rods for the same reason you are. are you worried about oil flow at all with the modified pan? anyway keep up the good work. i'm fan of all fast cars; imports domestics whatever, so when they are combined it's like everyone wins!!!

[Cygnus_X_1]

will be a fun thread to watch...have been thinking about the 302 swap alot lately...

good luck w/ the build

[the_momo]

no i know that front end......came with the car. if only you could see it. cut out roof (for targa...um yeah) sparkly orange with green flames. but at least it was half sanded to bare metal and surface rust. had a ka-t in for a while, and i hit a possum at about 60. thats why the front is all jacked up. havent had the time or ambition to look for a factory front yet. oh well. and the hood is closed. thats how bad it is. motor looks really pretty though. makes the whitetrash inside me all proud.

[enigma2103]

i would just drive around with no hood

[AZhitman]

BAD A$$.

That is all.

[JesusLikesKFC]

hmmm, think theres enough room in the bay of an e30 318.... i know i know....nissan but hell theres one a few miles away being sold for 300. love the sound of cheap beaters that actaully haul asz.

[HawaiianPenguin]

im gonna drop a 383 in my 240.....when i get it..

[302VertMan]

Yeah, im just now getting to the oil pan mod part. I've been sick for the past 4 days so i've acomplished nothing untill today. I've got the motor back out so i can cut and shape the pan, so ill be posting again in the next couple of days with the results.

[the_momo]

i know for a fact that there is enough room for a sbc in an e30. a friend of mine had a rolling chassis of an e30 and for fun we put the 350 i my s13 in it, it fit really well. there is a lot to the bmw motors and as such necessitate a lot of engine bay. will def need some cutting/fabbing/modification, but itll work. wiring those old bimmers sucks all day though. it would be wise to make it a track car, and use a 12 circuit painless wiring kit, and yank all of the old wiring out of the bimmer. id never touch that factory crap. too much and its all over the place.

dude, i should hang out with jesus, i like kfc too! but i prefer taco chicken (taco bell and kfc together...this is why i love america.)

[the_momo]

you know what is funny though about these swaps? with an auto trans, the gear ratios are really high. i can pull the wheels like an inch in first. i just have the 300zx na diff with the 4.08 gears(if not mistaken, correct?) im looking into the turbo diff or something a little more liveable. but it sure does a nice burnout. if it ran all the time. oh well. im pretty sure its mostly my fault. that motor isnt a fan or running out of gas. not at all.

[Terran]

I should do this, i have a 302 with a million performance goodies sitting in my "garage" that i can't get rid of lol. It even has full tube headers and everything.

Edit: How are these vs a SR swap? My problem is that i want handling too.

[Black on Gold]

Edit: How are these vs a SR swap?

Just stick to the SR then

[TheOne]

Just stick to the SR then

or an ls1, if placed right it could be quite a lot better than an sr.

[Terran]

I should ask on the ford forums how much a 302 weighs, It seems like a much better idea then the SR20 swap seeing as i already have the performance parts sitting in my 'garage'. The late model 302s can make upwards of 250hp stockish. It'd be kind of a shame to make it carbed, i just can't remember if mustanks are speeddensity FI motors and what it takes to make a MAF so you can do serious power adders.

[302VertMan]

Hey, now that u mention the rear end Momo, i have a question. I am probably going to be running 425hp to the wheels with my 250hp progressive zex shot. I am really derading the whole 9" rearend install after the motor goes in, so i was wondering how my stock rear will handle the hp? Before i blew the Ka to oblivion i had noticed that whenever i did some good powerbraking both my tires always spun, or whenever i turned a corner over 15mph my rear inside tire would always squeal, leaving me to believe my rearend was taken good care of. Do you think the stocker will hold up to the power? The 9" i have has a 2" overall shorter wheelbase, and axles for it are cheap and avalable in any bolt pattern. Since 50mm fenders are practically in the mail, the posibility of a relatively cheap 5 lug conversion will help out with the whole wheel selection aspect of the build and a 4-link setup is a piece of cake to fab up. But if there is anyway of making the stock rearend work, i would rather do that to save time, i just need to know if the stock rear will handle my everyday abuse.

[Terran]

You're gonna need alot of NOX for 24/7 use lmao. But seriously, the rear IRS is much more sophisticated then the ford 9". Now, agreeable, the 9" is a MUCH stronger system. But i don't see why a normal rear won't work just fine consdiering the power output of most RB swaps hover around the 300-400hp mark.

But back to my question, weight issues?

[JesusLikesKFC]

302vert, ya gotta post more pictures. as for taco/chicken...yeah hav one close as hell, and yes, it does own. but for the e30 wiring, i simply dont have the knollege for messing around with all that but poisibly one of my friends might (beemer nerd to the extreme). im just lookin for a cheap beate rthat still moves ya know? minor modifications r fine by me but i cant deal with a huge headache as of now.

[the_momo]

you know what...i think that the e30 harness is pretty much self contained, such as the s chassis harnesses are. that being said, you MIGHT (emphasis) be able to just take the motor out with the harness and still use the basic amneties of the car (lights, signals,etc) and wiring the new motor ups is really easy. its like 6 wires total. talk to your friend and see what you come up with about the harness. im curious about this, as im thinking about doing something with an old 5 series in the future. maybe like a high rev v 6 of sorts, like the variation of the duratec that noble uses for the m12. but thats a ways off yet.

302, the r200 diff is a strong one. viscous diffs have their limits though. honestly, this decision can really be made for you totally depending on what you want to do with it. if you are just making a street car, a half cage and a 300zx diff with driveshaft shop axles would hold up just fine. if you are going to do a 9" and 4 link, you might as well cage the whole thing and just make it an all out drag car. my setup is 300zx diff and custom made adaptors. im going to be getting driveshaft shop axles with the 300zx bolt pattern so i dont have to use the adaptors. unless its an all out racecar, stick with the factory suspension geometry and just upgrade it accordingly. i hear the tomei diff is good, and quaife is also a good opition. and dss claims 500-600 whp capacity for their axles.

[302VertMan]

Yeah, nos is expensive. $40 a fill in Xenia, Oh $4Lb. I do alot of racing on the weekends at night. With my old Vr6 i usually went through a bottle in 2-3 days with a 65 shot. I went from a turbo on my old 240 to running nitrous and was very dissapointed with no2s, but short term, it works out better from paycheck to paycheck. But maybe i can go fuel injected and run a couple of turbo's with a 4500rpm stall converter on the vert in the future, if the body wouldn't bend, the driveshaft wouldn't break, and the lottery ticket i bought the other day was a winner, lol

Ill post up some pics of the old ka vs. the v8 on our meat scales tomorrow to show the weight differences.

[Terran]

I'm real quite torn on which swap would be better (SR vs v8).

A couple of friends of mine at the FordTrucks.com have contributed;

"WIth an iron intake and heads, about 400-450 lbs. With the SEFI fuel injection the weight in Ford's 5.0 book shows it as 540 lbs."

"With cast iron everything they run about 460 lb's. With a aluminum carb intake it's about 430, and aluminum heads will knock off another 60 lb's.

540 seems about right for a 351w, but not a 302, SEFI or not."

Edit: A quick search shows that a fully loaded KA is around the 500 mark. So, 302 with all aluminum performance goodies is lighter then a stock KA?

So, weight of an SR?
Modified by Terran at 8:57 AM 11/12/2006

[JesusLikesKFC]

any progress? unlike most stuff on nico latly, this seems intresting.