DIY Consult program thru PC Connection

[heybilly]

Ok ive just assembled a Car-puter and would really like to hook up the PC to the Infiniti's Consult interface so i can display real time diagnostic and status info... Anyone know how to assemble a consult to pc interface and what software protocol i would need to use to establish communication?

[forecast]

I believe it's an RS232 serial port built into the ECU. This is just a guess, but based on the incredibly cheap price of these chips and the 30 year track record they have it's hard to imagine Nissan would want to reinvent the wheel. It is a three wire design (signal each way + ground) that one would expect in RS232

If it's standard TTL voltages, the wiring would be a snap, basically cut the end off a 10f serial cable and fit an end that will plug in.

The programing on the other hand would be difficult!

If anyone can provide me with a lookup table of the protocols used, I'll happily write a little windows app to interface with the ECU.

[forecast]

http://300zx-twinturbo.com/conzult/faq.htm

[heybilly]

Ok what about something allittle more FREE

[forecast]

no doubt, that's outside my price range too.

They have to use a box between the ECU and serial port meaning the ECU doesn't use standard computer serial port logic.



meaning, i doubt we'll find a fre version.

[heybilly]

Well you never really know whats in that box.. Could be as simple as a Crossover or a Repeater. Anywayz if someone does stumble across "whats in the box" could probably be reproduced using a basic stamp controller.

[szh]

I believe it's an RS232 serial port built into the ECU. This is just a guess, but based on the incredibly cheap price of these chips and the 30 year track record they have it's hard to imagine Nissan would want to reinvent the wheel. It is a three wire design (signal each way + ground) that one would expect in RS232

If it's standard TTL voltages, the wiring would be a snap, basically cut the end off a 10f serial cable and fit an end that will plug in.

I would also agree that it is probably a RS-232 like serial protocol from a data perspective. But be careful about voltage levels! If it is standard TTL or CMOS (5 Volts), then you need to adapt this to true RS-232 levels, else you will get unusual ground-bounce induced errors in the transmissions and not know what is going on. Particularly when the engine is on (or when turned on) and lots of electrical noise is present. You would be amazed at what voltage spikes and currents can be seen inside a car!

So, if it is 5 Volts, and not correct RS-232 levels, make a simple interface circuit using a Maxim 232 chip or equivalent. The circuit schematic for this are at the Maxim web site. Also incorporate some zeners and capacitors and/or other protection circuitry to prevent spikes from getting in to your PC serial port.

Of course, if the DDL port uses correct RS-232 voltage levels, then you can simply and easily use the serial cable as mentioned.

Z

[szh]

They have to use a box between the ECU and serial port meaning the ECU doesn't use standard computer serial port logic.

I bet it is a simple logic level convertor incorporating Maxim-232 chips and protection circuits like I mentioned in my other post! I am going to look into this some more - my company has contacts into places doing this kind of interface work to car electrical circuits.

If I can work something out, I will see about getting some interface boxes made up for NICO members - Windows coding will be simple if we can decode the data format and content.

Z

[Eswift]

yeah, the app is no problem, its decoding the data stream that is troublesome.

you might want to contact ashley powers,

http://ashleypowers.com/

he has a carputer which he used either dasylab or labview to interface with the port and it shows real time info on all the sensors. i dont think it incorporates any diagnostics or tests, but about 80% of what you need.

im sure he would help you guys out, he has been very helpful to me with questions i have had about technical car stuff.

[Eswift]

P. S. ill be really interested to see how this works out, and that interface box would be even better, i would buy or make one for sure.

billy, interested on your install, where/what components? any pics? what did you do for a keyboard/mouse? is the screen in the dash?

[szh]

Ashley [apparently] used a Quatech product to interface to the port. However, their web site (Quatech, that is) is no longer working. So I will talk to other sources that I have.

Z

[szh]

Ashley [apparently] used a Quatech product to interface to the port. However, their web site (Quatech, that is) is no longer working. So I will talk to other sources that I have.

Uh ... I got through to the Quatech web site finally, but the product that Ashley mentioned (the DAC-801) is a PCI data-acquisition board. This is not a port interface device for a car, so I will keep looking for more info.

Z

[forecast]

ashleys car was amazing! Is he part of NICO?

[szh]

ashleys car was amazing! Is he part of NICO?

I do not know. I merely followed the link from Eswift's post to look at the stuff at Ashley's web site. Pretty amazing! Particularly the ZPC that he worked on. The LCD screen had servo's in it to tilt it back and forth. Cool!

Z

[Eswift]

no he is not on NICO, he is a http://www.twinturbo.net regular though.

i think his ZPC system might be hooked up straight to the ECU actually...because i think he uses a conZult sometimes as well.

he has an upcoming product, as you see on the page, the Zemulator, which is very similar to the ZPC, as far as limited data aquisition and more importantly, ECU remapping...so i guess the system is different than a consut emulator.

i guess his system is different than what you guys are looking for, but he might still know what to do...seems like he knows the system pretty much in and out.

[szh]

I have sent Ashley an e-mail to ask for thoughts in this regard. I also have e-mails in to some of the other people I know who can make such interfaces. I'll try to get some information in the next few days and report back!

Z

[szh]

i think his ZPC system might be hooked up straight to the ECU actually...because i think he uses a conZult sometimes as well.

Ah! That makes sense. He is using a Quatech DAC-801, which is a data acquisition card, rather than a serial interface adapter of some sort.

Z

[Eswift]

sweet, let us know what you find

[heybilly]

Guyz its great to see so many people interested in a project like this.... and Ashley and his Z are amazing... Really lookin foward on how to get data acquisition thru a serial interface and i know u guyz would think of something to take care of that... As of right now my Carputer is still being assembled but the specs r:

Mini ITX M10000 - Nehemiah Core - Hardware based MPEG2WD 160GB 7200rpm ATA133A4 Tech USB Mini Wireless Mouse \ On Screen Keyboard 4 nowTecom Bluetooth Adapter for wireless Internet thru Nokia 3650GPS and Voice Recognition down da lineRunning Cut Down Version of WinXP pro w/ Media Edition Interface

Ill post pix once this install is complete

[wamQ45]

OK where to start....I tried the ConZult on my Q it does not work. The software was designed for the 300ZX. It was able to pull some parameters but now what I had in mined...sent it back. The "holy-grail" is not the interface but the protocol. What does the message format look like. What messages are available on the Q. Once I send a message what will the response look like. If you know the messaging schema the rest is quite simple. An interface can be written for a micro-controller that would allow you to interface your PC via serial, parallel or even USB. Software is cake (do that for a living anyway). So there you go....I have asked this question before...Does any one know the message scheme?

[Eswift]

seriously, give nissan/infiniti a call!

[wamQ45]

I never really thought of that (seriously). Do they give out that information (again seriously)?

[Eswift]

i think the problem is finding the right person to talk to. Them telling us might be considered divulging trade secrets, but i think if you found someone directly involved with the whole system (programmer, engineer... realizing just now the answer is most likely in japan) then they would be more than glad to help us with the project. possible barriers include language, and actually getting to talk with the right person.

Much work has been done by tuning companies in japan that just doenst get done here (for example upgraded OBDII ECUs) , and i would like to think that they are getting inside info, instead of the alternative (we're not as crafty as them).

Unfortunately, i do not have the connections necessary, maybe someone here does....

help us!?

[elwesso]

Maybe Dennis would know someone!!!

[Q45tech]

Trade secret, they only tell relatives who go in the tuner business in Japan. After the JWT ecu reprog. not really much to be gained safely as they took the engine to limit and backed off enough to be safe.

I'm sure if they could have delivered another 5 even 3 HP safely they would have, to sell/market the unit better.

Free stolen software without paying for intellectual property rights will be the death of us all........all the US has to sell is this and food ----we make nothing else.

There are always mechanical solutions to software problems: A 1.0 psi decrease in the fuel pressure from 43.4 to 42.4 psi will lean the AF the same as roughly a 0.1 millisec change in the injector open time. 35 psi would be approximately the same as leaning the WOT by 10%. The knock sensors can be made less sensitive, the MAF voltage curve can be intercepted and tweaked upwards.

See why fuel pressure is so critical and a worn pump will reach its limits and the pressure regulator will lose control and the WOT psi will drop leaning the engine.........a brief shinning moment of more power before melt down.

Sensors can be jeeped to supply different data

[wamQ45]

Q45tech, I think that you are missing the point....I think that our conceptual goal (or at leat mine) was to interface to the data stream to view operational parameters not treek the ecu or data stream. I want to see my O2, knock, temp, RPM, Air flow....... And I want to do it cheap and by my design..... Take the Conzult....it's just an interface with some software. The problem is the interface. It connectes to the serial port and is receiving ascii commands and translates those commands into something the ecu can understand.

[Eswift]

have you talked to the conzult guys? im sure the interface is nearly the same between nissan OBDI models.

[erich]

Wasn't there someting last year about Congress telling the auto manufacturers to open up the old protocols so that 'Mom & Pop' service stations can fix computerized cars? If so then perhaps Nissan is obligated to tell us if we ask nice.

[Q45tech]

They are obligated to let you buy a Consult I or II and let you buy a OBD2 scanner and to let you buy a service manual.

In theory they are obligated to sell you the on line service for the same amount as a dealer AFTER you buy the $20,000 worth of computers they require the dealers to buy......It will run about $1500 per month thereafter.

In other words they can not treat a mom and pop any different information wise from the dealer.

The problem is no independent who doesn't do as much volume as the smallest dealer can afford the information.

Obviously it would be unfair to make the dealer pay and not someone else.

I believe the laws coverage begins with 1996-1997 vehicles [OBD2] as ODBI cars are over 7 years old and outside the realm of government interfearence........for non life threatening non safety reasons.

They are not obligated to give any code as that is definitely a trade secret.

[erich]

What a shame. They have so little to lose. Just about everyone who needs a consult box to fix cars professionally already has one and Nissan's OBDI style ecu's aren't used in new cars. Where's the harm in letting us fry our ecu's by plugging homebrew things into them?Oh well.