DIY: Bottom mount turbo manifold and DIY: Brake master heat shield fabrication

[IanS]

I did these two write ups over the last few weeks, I originally had them posted in the topic I had dealing just with the manifold, I moved them so they can be more easily searched. Hope they are helpful.

I did a little searching and I wasn’t able to find a write up on installing a bottom mount T25 turbo manifold, so I’ve decided to do one.







The Manifold I am installing is a Top Speed tubular stainless steel bottom mount T25 turbo manifold for the SR20DET, at the same time I am also installing a Top speed stainless steel turbo extension. I purchased both from . http://www.intensepower.com/ They are one of our sponsors. I had some issues with the address attached to the credit card I used, (I just moved) but Darren at Intense was extremely helpful. Once we got everything figured out Darren got me the tracking numbers and everything was smooth from there. The customer service was awesome and if you need anything I urge you to check them out. I will review the actual product at the end of this write up.

Things you will need for this install.

• 3/8 drive socket set• 3/8 ratchet• Misc. 3/8 extensions and universal• Standard screw drivers• Phillips screw drivers• Metric wrench set• Penetrating oil• Brake parts cleaner• Scotch brite pad or small buffing pad• o2 sensor socket

Some other tools you may or may not need, depending on how things go.

• Drill• Drill bit set• Left hand drill bit or easy out• Vice grips

The first thing you should do is call a couple of friends to keep you company while you do this also they will give you a ride to the parts store when you break something. Begin by parking your car on a nice level surface, preferably with some nice smooth clean pavement underneath it. Pop your hood and find yourself something to do for a while, everything is going to be really hot, let it cool down for a while. While I was waiting for everything to cool I took a moment to clean my valve cover and fuse box cover, aren’t they pretty? While I was waiting for my moral support I smoked a couple cigarettes and cleaned some more. Once the car is cool its time to get started.

Dirty

Shinny

1. Start by taking off the intake pipe, and hot pipe, removing them will allow you more room to work, depending on whether or not you have a strut tower bar and how it is designed, you may want to remove that as well, I left mine in.



2. If you have any heat shields on your manifold or turbo extension, remove them now. Now that you have access, it’s a good time to start spraying penetrating oil on all the nuts holding the turbo to the manifold and the manifold to the head, if you are also installing the turbo extension you can spray those studs down too. Keep spraying them periodically until you have them all off.

This stuff is awsome, read the top of the can



3. While your waiting for the penetrating oil to do its thing, grab your handy floor jack and a couple jack stands, I chose to jack up the whole side of the car instead of just the front to make it easier to remove the down pipe. Make sure to support the car with jack stands not just the jack unless you have the urge to become very skinny. Don’t forget to keep spraying. Yes I used jack stands, I just didn’t take a picture of them.



4. If you are installing the turbo extension grab a 13 mm socket and ratchet also a 13 mill wrench. If not, skip to step 9. Unplug the o2 sensor, and remove it using a 17mm wrench or o2 sensor socket. Unbolt the stock extension from the turbo; you should be able to reach the top three nuts from topside, for the other two you will need to slither underneath the car. Before you get underneath make sure to grab a light and whatever size socket you need to remove the down pipe from the cat, mine was a 14mm. Once underneath the car remove the bolts holding the down pipe from the cat, leave one on the bolt part way in so you don’t bash yourself in the head. Remove the other two nuts holding the extension to the turbo. Now remove the brace holding the down pipe from the transmission cross member. You should now be able to remove the down pipe and extension from the car as one unit.





5. Now that you have the extension and down pipe out, grab the socket of your choice, mine was a 14mm. Take the three nuts off and separate the two. Set your old extension off to the side.

6. Now grab your brillow pad and use it to clean the gasket surfaces on the down pipe, make sure they are really clean or they are going to leak.

7. Once it is all cleaned up take your new extension and install all of the studs into it, put the new gasket onto it and install it onto the down pipe, make sure it’s facing the right direction or everyone will make fun of you later. Make sure to tighten it down properly, remember, tight is tight, and too tight is broken. Once that is done, set it aside for later.

8. Now is the time to make a decision about o2 sensors, the Top Speed extension uses a fat style o2 sensor bung, but the factory redtop extension uses a skinny o2 sensor, it looks to me like the bung on the factory extension is actually an adaptor that can be removed. I didn’t really feel like trying to remove it, so I picked up a universal fat type o2 sensor from a 95 300ZX TT and wired it to the factor o2 sensor plug. Set it aside, you will install it later.

I dont know why I took pictures of the spanish side of the box



9. Ok, everyone back together? Now its time to really get your mitts greasy, your still using the penetrating oil right? I thought not. Grab a 13mm wrench and start removing the nuts holding the turbo to the manifold it’s kind of a tight fit but you can get all four. If you break any off, don’t start crying yet, remember your not reusing the manifold, if you are reusing it, you shouldn’t be reading this and you should stop wasting both of our time, but I digress. If you have braided steel oil lines you can just allow the turbo to drop down and rest on the cross member. If not, unbolt the hard lines from the block and allow the turbo to slide off the manifold studs.



10. The black oil separator can mounted to the back of the head is in the way, take a pliers and remove the hose clamps from the black hoses on the top and bottom of the catch can. Using the socket of your choice, I think they are 14s, remove the three bolts holding it to the head, two towards the front of the engine and one on the back. Set it aside, you will need it later.



11. Removing the 10mm bolt holding the dipstick tube to the water neck will allow you to push it aside.

12. Remove the three 10mm bolts holding the compressor housing extension. Remove it, and set it aside.

13. Back to business; time to get that manifold out. If you slacked off and didn’t use penetrating oil, now is when you will regret it. The repeated hot cold, hot cold cycle the studs holding the manifold on have endured has most likely caused them to become very brittle. Regardless, grab a 14 mm socket and start taking them off, you can reach all of them with a socket and ratchet as long as you are creative with extensions and universals. Don’t loose any of the nuts or big washer or you will be digging around the engine bay for hours.

14. Once all the nuts are off, remove the manifold, it might take a little wiggling, but it should come.

Notice the broken studs



15. If they all came off without incident, give yourself a hug and go get some food while I learn the newbs how to remove broken studs. Come back when I get to step 14.



16. If you are lucky the stud broke off with some threads sticking out of the head, if that’s the case, grab your handy dandy vice grips and pull that sucker out. If your not so lucky, or your anything like me, (I suck at life, luck has nothing to do with it) then the studs you broke off are flush with the head.

17. Keep spraying penetrating oil on the broken studs, it will make things easier. Get your drill, plug it in, you will want to start with a very small bit like 1/16 inch. Drill a whole in the center of the broken stud, go very slow and don’t use a lot of pressure, you don’t want to break the bit, keep spraying, it will lubricate the bit and keep it from squealing or dulling too fast. Once your whole is about a ¼ inch deep, step up to a 1/8 inch drill bit, you shouldn’t need to drill as deep with this one. Once you have a 1/8 inch whole, put your easy out into the drill, and switch it to reverse. Insert it into the whole and apply pressure to the trigger, go very slow, if you go to fast you will either strip out the bit, or break it off in the whole, in either case you’re an idiot. Start as slowly as you can, it shouldn’t take much, the bit should grab in the whole and begin to turn the stud out of the head. Hooray, you did it, lets move on, if you screwed up, too bad, sell your car, its over, just kidding, just use a slightly larger bit to widen the whole and try again.





18. For the lucky ones welcome back smarty pants how was your break? Well stop lounging around, let’s get back to work. Ok, time for more cleaning, grab your brillow pad and clean the head and turbo gasket surfaces, remember, leaks = bad. Now is also a good time to clean some of the carbon out of the exhaust ports.



19. Now is a good time to get out your new manifold and match it up with the old manifold, making sure flange locations and sizes are the same.



20. If your manifold came with a brace, install it now; also install all the studs onto the turbo mounting flange

21. Install the new gaskets and start working the manifold into place, its going to take some wiggling.



22. Once the manifold is into place on the head, install the nuts to hold it, don’t forget the big washers. Tighten them down starting in the center and working back and forth towards the outside, each time increasing tightness until they are all fully tight.

23. Pick the turbo up and slide it over the studs on the new manifold, make sure to put the nuts on the engine side of the flange on first, if you pull it all the way flush they will not fit, so work them all on slowly. Tighten all four using a criss cross pattern.

24. If you have hard lines, reinstall them with new copper crush washers

25. Reinstall the compressor extension.

26. The factory oil separator can will not fit due to the location of the number four exhaust runner, it will need to be modified slightly. Start by bending one of the brackets on the side of it so you can attach it to the corner of the valve cover. Attach the lower hose. Find a piece of hose the correct size for the top of the separator and cut it to proper length, it will need to be slightly longer than the factory piece. Make sure you use hose capable of withstanding the heat created by the manifold and turbo. Install the hose on top of the separator. Don’t forget to hose clamp it.



27. Reattach the oil dipstick tube.

28. Install the hot pipe and intake tube in the reverse order that you removed them.

29. If you are not installing a new turbo extension, you’re all done, make sure everything is tight, and drop the car down. Before starting the car, use some brake parts cleaner and a clean rag to thoroughly clean the manifold, any fingerprint left on it will cause discoloration, and it will look all nasty when it gets hot if you dont. Now you can start it up, check for leaks, and take it for a spin.

30. If you are installing the extension, bare with me, we are almost done. If you got new studs for the exhaust housing, install them now along with the new gasket. Slide the down pipe and extension under the car and wiggle it back up to the turbo, if you can fit you ham fists up there put on one or two of the nuts, if not, have one of your buddies do it. Hold the down pipe in place until all of the nuts are tight. Reinstall the brace that holds the down pipe to the transmission, if it does not want to fit, don’t force it, that will put stress on the manifold causing it to crack.



My friend Broc putting on my nuts.

31. If your down pipe brace doesn’t fit anymore, or you never had one, you will either have to modify the original, or fabricate one of your own. You’re on your own there buddy, what do you think this is, I’m not going to do all the work for you.

32. Install the new gasket between the down pipe and the cat, and bolt them together

33. If you installed the extension, install the o2 sensor into it now, don’t forget to plug it in.



34. Your done, make sure everything is tight, drop the car down, clean the manifold check for leaks and have a victory smoke.



sitting down in the middle of changing the oil



That was my write up for installing the manifold, hopefully in the coming weeks I will also do a write up on fabricating a heat shield to keep my brake fluid from boiling. For anyone who actually read that whole thing, I congratulate you, because I’m not doing cliff notes. As long as this helps at least one person, I’m happy, because at least I’m trying, I’ve gotten so much from NICO without ever really giving anything back.

Parts Review

For the price this manifold is an awesome buy, it comes with extra bracing, and beefy welds, it also comes with a large bracket that connects the turbo flange to the head flange. All gaskets and hardware were included. As far as fitment goes I am very satisfied with the fitment, everything lined up and bolted on the way it was meant to. The only thing that had to be modified was the oil separator. The difference in o2 sensor bung size was something I didn’t realize until the last minute but it is an easy part to source so it did not complicate things. The manifold started off silver but after a day of driving it, it turned to a shinny gold color, it has been almost a week and I have not noticed any unsightly discoloration. I am very pleased with the tuned tone it gave my exhaust and the increased boost response is very entertaining.

This is what the Manifold looks like after driving it around for about an hour plus some cool pics of my car in the parking garage.

Notice the gold





So you installed a tubular turbo manifold, but you’re worried your brake fluid is getting a little warmer than you’d like it. You have a few solutions to this problem, first, you could heat wrap the manifold to keep heat in, it will keep your under hood temps down, but will void your manifolds warranty and most likely cause it to crack. Second you could spend a fair amount of money and buy a shinny and functional heat shield made specifically to do what you want it too. Or the last option, if you are like me (el cheapo) you can make your own.

If you want to try making your own heat shield, this should give you an idea of how to go about it.

Here are the things you will need

• 3/8 socket set • hammer• hard flat surface with straight edge• a chunk of 2 by 4 or some other straight edge• sheet steel• tin snips

I tried to do this as simply as possible, I want everyone with any mechanical ability to be able to do this. If you happen to have a sheet metal brake lying around you could use it to bend the metal, but if you do have one, you don’t really need me now do you.

Now before you get started you will need some steel, I picked some up from Home Depot, it was less than $5, and it was 12” by 18” by 1/16”. Make sure not to get galvanized steel because the fumes can make you sick, I used zinc plated.

1. Ready, let’s go; park the car wherever you’re going to work on it, you won’t need to jack it up. Pop your hood and let the engine cool, you will be working in close proximity to the exhaust manifold and turbo.

2. Once everything is cooled down, remove your strut tower bar and brake booster line, this will allow you to slide the shield in and out to test fit. Also remove the bolts securing the power steering reservoir to the fender well.



3. Now that things are out of the way, grab your metal, if you are using the same size piece as I did you won’t need to cut any, if your piece is larger you will need to cut it down to size.



4. Because everyone’s dimensions are a little different I can’t really give you exact measurements, it’s up to you to decide where to make the bends.

5. The easiest way to work the metal is by laying it on a flat surface with a hard straight 90 degree edge. Use a 2 by 4 on top of the metal to create a clean bend, for tighter bends use a hammer to work the metal further.



6. Start on one side and work bend by bend towards the other side. Test fit often, until you have all the bends correct, don’t worry it will take a while, don’t give up.







7. Once you have all the bends you need, slide the shield into place and check for any notches that need to be made. I made 4 notches all together, 2 on the bottom and 2 on the top. The 2 bottom notches were for the ABS wires, and for the waste gate actuator arm. The top 2 were to allow the strut tower bar and brake booster line to clear the shield with out rubbing. The easiest way to notch the metal is to make two cuts with the tin snips, then bend the peice between them over, then you can pound them flat. This way you have less sharp edges.







8. Before mounting the shield in place you need to make sure it isn’t rubbing on anything, you don’t want it touching anything like the brake lines or the manifold. You especially need to make sure there are no vacuum lines or cables rubbing on the edges because the hot vibrating metal will cut right through them.

9. Now that you have it all mocked up its time to mount it, remember how you removed the power steering reservoir bolts? Well, I used them to hold the shield to the fender well. I marked them off with a sharpie and used a drill with a slightly oversized drill bit to make the holes, that way it will have some wiggle room. I also braced the back of the shield to the oil separator can that I relocated when I installed the manifold.

10. I was a little worried about the proximity of the brake lines to the heat shield. I decided to cut open some vacuum line and to slide over the brake lines as an added layer of protection.



11. If you are running stock motor mounts, you may want to start the car up now and power brake it to make sure the engines movement isn’t causing it to run into the heat shield. I have Nismo motor and transmission mounts and I didn’t have any problems.

12. Now you can reinstall your strut tower bar and brake booster line, also make sure the shield is going to clear the hood when it is shut.



13. You’re all done, now you can sit back and bask in the glory of all your awesomeness. Now would also be a good time to call yourself a pro fabricator, don’t worry, you deserve it.







I also trimmed the very front corner so there is less of a sharp edge on it, but I failed to get a picture.

Without an infrared thermometer I can’t think of any way to test the temperature difference from one side of the shield to the other. If anyone builds a shield like this or has an aftermarket one and they also happen to have an infrared thermometer I would be very interested to know what the answer to that question is.


Modified by SideWays=smiles at 10:24 PM 12/9/2007

[Emperor_Tha]

very nice. lets say if i want to replace my manifold, can i still remove it without disconnecting the downpipe and extension?

[Naloos13]

yes you can

[IanS]

very nice. lets say if i want to replace my manifold, can i still remove it without disconnecting the downpipe and extension?

yes, but you will have to disconnect the oil and water lines to the turbo, unless you have braided steel lines.

[smokey240sx]

great write up. that exhuat manifold shift color pretty quickly

[kainvamp]

Nice write up, I know I'll be reffering back to this in a few weeks when I get a new manifold.

[IanS]

great write up. that exhuat manifold shift color pretty quickly

you should see it now, I had to drive to a funeral today, I was on the highway for 4 hours averaging about 80 MPH, I checked my oil when I got home and its like crazy purple now.

[homeslicej2]

You should link this in the Articles=custom titles sticky for d!ck and so you can get a custom title. I like the heat shield btw. I had planned on doing one in the next few weeks. oh well. If you put some of that gold reflective film on it (the stuff enjuku carries) you should get even better results. Oh, and why steel instead of aluminum?

[rahjah6687]

Can you please write up your experience with this manifold, looks like a deal for the price. Just wanna make sure the performance is there. Really considering buying one of these. Thanks

[IanS]

A friend of mine has a Megan manifold and we are both running the same exhaust, both sound the same while revving, cruising, and WOT, both changed the way boost comes on, there was no noticable differance between the 2 when boost is set the same in both cars, Mine has not cracked and it seems much sturdier, than the Megan, it has extra bracing and a large support bracket which the Megan does not, all though his is an older model Megan manifold, they may have updated it since he bought it almost a year ago. His does have some cracking but it is not serious yet.

IMHO

For the price, the Intense motorsports manifold is awsome bang for the buck.

[Sabot]

Nice write up

and that is not Spanish

[IanS]

Nice write up

and that is not Spanish

ROFL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

oh my wife would be very disappointed with me, she is a linguistics major in college.

Hmmm, is it German? I suck at languages.

[idahotuner]

Mine has not cracked and it seems much sturdier, than the Megan, it has extra bracing and a large support bracket which the Megan does not, all though his is an older model Megan manifold, they may have updated it since he bought it almost a year ago. His does have some cracking but it is not serious yet.

i got my new megan racing manifold today, and it has the large support bracket, and seems really sturdy. wont be installing it for a while though, until i get my gt2871r .64. but i was wonderign about the turb extension. the greddy has a splitter in it to keep the wastegate and the turbin gases from mixing, is there anything wrong with using a less expencive one that doesnt have one. like the one in this wirte up?

[IanS]

i got my new megan racing manifold today, and it has the large support bracket, and seems really sturdy. wont be installing it for a while though, until i get my gt2871r .64. but i was wonderign about the turb extension. the greddy has a splitter in it to keep the wastegate and the turbin gases from mixing, is there anything wrong with using a less expencive one that doesnt have one. like the one in this wirte up?

I had a choice between the divorced extension or the one I got, I am not making enough top end power for it to effect me so I opted not to get the divorced one.

[240sxvaj]

bump for good write up

[zrowkewl]

really good write up.man..you really are good at explaining things,i feel like i just installed my manifold..just with out the manifold of course.

[codyace]

Nice write up.

Another suggestion for those attempting this:

A good way to prevent breaking off the studs in the head, is to let the car warm up and run for a bit prior to removal. One car is up to operating temp, shut it back off, and quickly 'break' the nuts loose.

I'd suggest wearing gloves that can withstand heat as well (obviously)...

Again, doing this will save alot of time and potential headache

[IanS]

Nice write up.

Another suggestion for those attempting this:

A good way to prevent breaking off the studs in the head, is to let the car warm up and run for a bit prior to removal. One car is up to operating temp, shut it back off, and quickly 'break' the nuts loose.

I'd suggest wearing gloves that can withstand heat as well (obviously)...

Again, doing this will save alot of time and potential headache

That is actually not such a good idea. With the head at operating temp, the aluminum is soft, occasionally instead of the nut backing off the stud, or the stud backing out of the head, the stud can pull the threads out of the head with them, you are then forced to retap the head. It is the same with spark plugs, you never want to remove them when the engine is hot, always allow the engine to cool before removing things.

[codyace]

That is actually not such a good idea. With the head at operating temp, the aluminum is soft, occasionally instead of the nut backing off the stud, or the stud backing out of the head, the stud can pull the threads out of the head with them, you are then forced to retap the head. It is the same with spark plugs, you never want to remove them when the engine is hot, always allow the engine to cool before removing things.

I work at my family shop, and have been building small block ford's and 4 cylinders as long as I've been able to drive, and have NEVER EVER had an issue such as this. The only time I have issues with snapping studs, and or rounding crusty bolts off is when they are not hot.

[IanS]

^^Then you have been lucky, spot heating something with a torch and heating everything to the same temperature have much different results. The main benefit of heating something to break it loose is expansion which increases thread gap. When you heat the entire engine to one temperature everything expands, except at a given temperature the aluminum head becomes much softer than the steel studs. This softness combined with no change in thread gap greatly increases the chances of pulling the threads out of the head. I have seen it happen on multiple occasions when untrained mechanics decide to try and take spark plugs or other torqued bolts out of hot engines.

[codyace]

I've not. Ever worked at an Enduro, had a set of plugs foul out or etc, and you had to change them on spot. You can be assured that we're not waiting for the engine to cool down

I can honestly say, if I've not done 200 manifold installs/de installs, I've not done one. Never had an issue. Of course on newer stuff you don't always need the heat, but be assured on older and or ganky stuff, it's the trick.

And speaking of spot heating, ever taken a torch to swain coating? Neat stuff to see.

[positron1]

Nice write-up, good pics too. You said that wrapping the manifold will void the warranty and cause it to crack. I did not know that because I was planning to wrap mine.

[IanS]

Nice write-up, good pics too. You said that wrapping the manifold will void the warranty and cause it to crack. I did not know that because I was planning to wrap mine.

I was also planning to wrap mine, but before I did, I did a lot of research, I found that for the application the benefits would be minimal, and the chance of cracking is greatly increased, I wasn't willing to take that risk. Its more of an NA tuning trick.

[codyace]

I was also planning to wrap mine, but before I did, I did a lot of research, I found that for the application the benefits would be minimal, and the chance of cracking is greatly increased, I wasn't willing to take that risk. Its more of an NA tuning trick.

It's not really a trick, and really works well on most cars. Ideal gas law comes into play....it's not the best solution, but it does work. However an improperly wrapped manifold can cause premature cracking, as it traps condensation and the sort....

...However in this day and age, a quality coating will work MUCH better, look nicer, and last longer too

http://www.swaintech.com for the best coatings....

[IanS]

It's not really a trick, and really works well on most cars. Ideal gas law comes into play....it's not the best solution, but it does work. However an improperly wrapped manifold can cause premature cracking, as it traps condensation and the sort....

...However in this day and age, a quality coating will work MUCH better, look nicer, and last longer too

http://www.swaintech.com for the best coatings....

Wow, does Swain pay you for advertising? If not, they should. Most of the people on here are not building full tilt race engines, paying $200 just to have your manifold coated isnt very high on the cost/benefit totem pole. Im sure they have a quality product, and if I had a high tune race car, I would probably send them my engine with a credit card attached, but Im not.

In turbocharged applications the manifold cracking is most often caused by the excess heat which creates hot spots in the stainless steel, these cause the steal to turn brittle, this intern causes cracking.

Heat wrapping is indeed a trick, just like forcing more air into the engine using turbo/supercharging is a neat trick. Heat wrapping has more of an effect on NA cars is because it helps increase scavenging, the biggest benefit for turbocharged cars is the reduced under hood temperatures.

[idahotuner]

Wow, does Swain pay you for advertising? If not, they should. Most of the people on here are not building full tilt race engines, paying $200 just to have your manifold coated isnt very high on the cost/benefit totem pole. Im sure they have a quality product, and if I had a high tune race car, I would probably send them my engine with a credit card attached, but Im not.

thank you, i was going to say this but didnt know how to word it. you have to look at the cost over benifits of stuff. that is what i am doing. now i am not doing a cheep, half Arse build. i am doing a good solid build. best bang for the buck. and all these little nicknacks that dont really have much of a benifit i am ruling out.

[codyace]

Wow, does Swain pay you for advertising? If not, they should.

I agree. However, compared to some people, my money spent there is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Most of the people on here are not building full tilt race engines, paying $200 just to have your manifold coated isnt very high on the cost/benefit totem pole.

Full tilt race engine? Who? Me? Sorry. Bunch of stock junk, small turbo, and all in a daily driver (well not in the snow). Race cars, I think not.

Im sure they have a quality product, and if I had a high tune race car, I would probably send them my engine with a credit card attached, but Im not.

Here's the way I look at it:1. Heat wrap works, but no one ever puts it on correctly. This leads to cracking, and or rotting/rusting on inferior manifolds. ****ty stainless does rust.

2. You don't always need to use swain. Jet Hot, or any other comparable coating company will work. Will it work as well? Possibly not. Will it work at all? You betcha.

FWIW: I've never swain coated v8 headers...only turbo manifolds....not sure why, I guess just one of those things...

In turbocharged applications the manifold cracking is most often caused by the excess heat which creates hot spots in the stainless steel, these cause the steal to turn brittle, this intern causes cracking.

Heat cycle, rust, wear, rattling, and corrosion will screw up any metal, any time. A nice coating will help prevent alot of that, as will flex pipes and the sort.

Heat wrapping is indeed a trick, just like forcing more air into the engine using turbo/supercharging is a neat trick. Heat wrapping has more of an effect on NA cars is because it helps increase scavenging, the biggest benefit for turbocharged cars is the reduced under hood temperatures.

It's easy to tell you've never played with many turbo cars and or on different applications.

It's not 'exactly' the ideal gas law, but it works under the same premise. The cooler the air after the turbo, the faster the air will want to get there. The hotter the air, the more pressure it has, etc etc etc. So if you keep a manifold nice and hot (not excessive), you will create more pressure force through the manifold, it the warm airs attempt to go from the area of high pressure (hot manifold) to low pressure (cooler downpipe).

I'm not saying everyone go out and spend money on expensive stuff. I just am attempting at spreading the word about 'good products' that don't cost alot, and that will provide more bang for buck than other silly mods people do.

My car is the least racey car you can find here. However, the correct combination of parts, will go a long way.

[codyace]

thank you, i was going to say this but didnt know how to word it. you have to look at the cost over benifits of stuff. that is what i am doing. now i am not doing a cheep, half Arse build. i am doing a good solid build. best bang for the buck. and all these little nicknacks that dont really have much of a benifit i am ruling out.

Modifying cars properly is not cheap.

[idahotuner]

Modifying cars properly is not cheap.

i agree. i am puttign alot into my car. but saving 50 bucks here and there mean it will add up and i can buy one more part. that maight add more then the parts that i didnt get that were a little more expensive.

i am not trying to argue i am jsut saying what i am doing. i will go about building my car how i want to and you cna build yours how you want to.

[IanS]

It's easy to tell you've never played with many turbo cars and or on different applications.

Then you would be wrong, I started tinkering on DSM rally cars when I was 16 years old, I never want to see another 4G63-T. Ive also spent a fair amount of time ruining Honda D series engines with boost. You are right though, I don't have easy access to dynos, most people around here are still stuck on American muscle, there are very few import shops here and everything they sell costs an arm and a leg.

It's not 'exactly' the ideal gas law, but it works under the same premise.....

I understand how it works, I got the feeling you understood as well, so I felt no need to start spouting technical jargon. The fact stands, the benefit of those temperature changes are minimal. I have very little money to spend, that means I do everything myself, and I fabricate everything I can. Super clean, money pit cars are cool, but an ugly car with just as much power, that is built by some guy in a shed is much more impressive to me.

My car is the least racey car you can find here.

I doubt that, many people are running completely stock engines. 200hp per liter, is racey, period.

Modifying cars properly is not cheap.

Properly is an opinion, some people would consider park bench wings and gaudy body kits proper modifications. I'm sure you will agree, that is far from the truth. You are correct though, building a car is not cheap, thats why bang for the buck is so important to me. Ive been building this car for 4 years, and I'm still on the stock turbo, because it works. I'm sure swain makes a great product, but I can think of a lot better ways to spend $200.

I have greatly enjoyed arguing with you, its such a nice change from answering the same question over and over again. Please do not try talking down to me again, Im not some dumb kid, ok well maybe I am, but I know more than I let on sometimes.