Disco Potato vs 2871

[ser20det]

Tell us... what exactly do u think a 48trim/0.64 will "grow into" ?YCA18T on ns.com; GT28RS/0.64 17psi @3500, 210kw, rb20 afm, 440, ca16 cam. 11.8s ETNot good enough ? question is.... should OP build for him/now.... or you/later ??

He is pushing now 244rwkw at 22 psi. very impressive.

[mbmbmb23]

For those in this thread questioning the value of buying a cheaper journal bearing turbo versus one of Garrett's "off the shelf plug and play" BB turbos.....ask yourself one question.... Why doesn't Garrett offer "spec for spec" copies of their bb GT series offerings in a non bb? I'll give you a hint, it's all about timing and marketing.

[Buddyworm]

TOO MANY CA18s exist to be wasting money "guessing" on assumptions. Bad advice imo.Two totally different motors at that. On one hand you embrace the variety offered... then on the other, you suggest "CA is close enough to an SR" ? Get real.

You are familair with the concept of the "ballpark," yes? You're right to say the engines are different but throw the same turbo on either engine and they ain't all that different. The train of thought is nothing like "Oh, 1.8 is close enough to 2.0." More like "Ok, so SR's really like this turbo, my engine is a tad smaller so it won't work quite as well, but close. Furthermore, the math agrees with that hypothesis, blah blah..."

yes, and u won't make the torque, as high or as early. Don't dwell on peak hp.EVERY street monster I've seen ~26-30psi. Exactly how small turbos put up impressive ETs for what they are, should the urge arise.for example;Cortina MKI mentioned aboveSome heavy 2L 3-3350 pound street DSMs down into mid 11s, puny evoIII 16G! From observation, a CA18 + E3-16G S13 will surpass that considerably, with same effort.You can keep your response, AND crank it up/rip it up. Your choice

The retarded part of this debate is you and I actually fall on pretty much the same side of it. I simply disagreed with you that the innumerable variations on the 2871 were without merit or purpose. Personally, I'll probably never run a brand new Garret GT28 framed turbo but that's because I have a soft spot for cheap s*** that rocks.

Quote »There is no "one size fits all" with turbos

End of debate!!!! Neither is a 2871.... as you're implying here.[/quote]At what point did I make that implication for one size fits all? Last time I checked I was making an argument for the different variations on it.

Reading comprehension. Do it.

Tell us... what exactly do u think a 48trim/0.64 will "grow into" ?

I bet a compressor map and some nerdy math might shed some light on that question.

Oh really ? T3/T4 has ran the gamut approaching 300-600hp. A GT28xx will/has/can NOT service that range ANY better. The same age-old turbo compromises live on.... despite the hype.

Correct. When did this become a point of contention?

Ahah, same "mindset", doing u in. Again... stay away from assumptions. Leave that for the sheep. Exactly the point I've been trying to make.Why do you think all those long "GTxx vs.." pages/threads exist ?Our quickest starion (2.6Lsohc) clubmember drove his car to work everyday. 10.4sec ET pump gas, stock cam!. Old POS T04B @28psi. Lites up tires instantly

Sigh, I totally believe that it does. I was simply musing that, given the rate all other technologies are improving these days, you'd think the impeller design would improve as well. And before we decide that it hasn't, let's ensure we aren't making even more assumptions and consider other factors as to why a fellow like ks13 might be seeing better results from other turbos. Like, for instance, the fact that most of these GT28's are internally gated and the killer T3/T04 setups probably aren't.

[dash]

Quote »For those in this thread questioning the value of buying a cheaper journal bearing turbo versus one of Garrett's "off the shelf plug and play" BB turbos.....ask yourself one question.... Why doesn't Garrett offer "spec for spec" copies of their bb GT series offerings in a non bb? I'll give you a hint, it's all about timing and marketing.[/quote] I recall one of a few SER owners who had their relatively new $1100 potatoe fail way back, was appalled at the $880 chra $tick garret tried to break off in their butt."Hey, why not get a dead t25 core machined for new plain bushing 28 chra ?" ~$550His follow up feedback reply... "it's the same dam car!"Yep, all about marketing BS.... smoke & mirror show for the pepsi generation $$$$$

[dash]

Quote »I bet a compressor map and some nerdy math might shed some light on that question.[/quote] not the same that told us a 20 is too big for a CA18, and to get a 16 cause it "maps better", huh ?hmmmm.... like when would common sense 'kick in' and tell ya a 16 won't serve a 25G client.No thanks, hold on to those calculations. You've already demonstrated their mettle - lol.Quote »2871r gives you waaaaaay more room to grow in the future[/quote] Give us some evidence of this; 48trim/0.64 that has grown into waaaaaay more, since you're promoting 71 "flavouring". Some 'hot' 28RS CA18s posted to compare.Quote »let's ensure we aren't making even more assumptions and consider other factors as to why a fellow like ks13 might be seeing better results from other turbos. Like, for instance, the fact that most of these GT28's are internally gated and the killer T3/T04 setups probably aren't.[/quote]ks13 is not some isolated case.... u really are sold on this 71 'magic'.Lots of 4-500+hp T3/T4 has ran int wg for decades. More asuumptions. Try again.dash avoids maps, calculations and wild guesses. Read, like u say.Lotsa info posted on GT28 int wg shortfalls tho. Eg. as below. Same ol 5h1t u seeQuote »He is pushing now 244rwkw at 22 psi. very impressive[/quote] Indeed. I'm almost sure it was YCA18T saying that Dr. Drift was encouraging him to even kick it up a notch further, and go external wastegate on the 28RS, and pick up another 10-15 kw possibly (based on experiences from previous tunes). Good stuff

[sjbsuperman1425]

ok, 2871r is good for my application because i want simplicity. i dont want a top mount manifold and having to custom this and custom that. everyone has their different setups man.

Ca_Silvia, WE WANT PICTURES!!

[Ca_Silvia]

I've never had a turbo this big, some may think thats pretty sad...







Bad news is it runs so f***ing lean on the old tune i might have to tow it to my tuner.

[s13drifter88]

Wow this thread is starting to go into pointless directions. What Dash is trying to say that we all need to throw our 2871's and 2860's in the trash coz we could all do so much better with a 16g or maybe as he previously posted in 2 other threads, were much better off with an ebay t3/t4. its no like 400whp has been built out of the 2871r. its not like the 2871 will make more power than a 28rs. its no like it'll bolt directly on. of coarse we cant size our 2871 in a .64 52 trim to be responsive and yeild STILL CLOSE to the 400 mark. but then again he'll probably say that potential to do 380whp is nowhere close to 400. before i bought my gt2871-15 (.64 52 trim) i did alot of homework and while doing so had 2 great people with wonderful experiences recommend this turbo to me as im pretty sure Ive made clear in the other thread about this. Your sounding like youre suggesting that either everybody needs either an s15 t28 (gt2560r-4) or a huge t3/t4 regardless of the fact that you and i BOTH know that some peoples setups may yeild the best power/response balance somewhere between i.e. 2860 or 2871. and OMG garrett was even nice enough to offer us a variety of housings to customize it exactly to our needs. saying u stay away from flow maps and the math and yadayada ect ect sounds more like ur saying i dont know what i talking about or have no clue how to read or even look at a compressor map to judge the output of a turbocharger and where it will function best for your engines displacement/output/power goals. I bet surge line and choke line mean nothing to you. I like the 2871, the other people in this thread do and 200,000 other people in this world do and Im sure atleast 90% of them researched it before they just let go of $1100. how can u say something so absurd as to say its pointless or useless when wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to many people have made way to much power using the exact same thing i bought and many others have. If it was worthless Garrett would have discontinued it due to lack of sales. a gt28r is fun and a t3/t4 is a badass but maybe, just maybe, theres somebody in the middle that doesnt want 450whp, doesnt want top mount, doesnt want to spend 7 or 800 on a quality manifold but certainly wants more than 290-300whp. whats cheaper? lets say i want 375whp. suppoirting fuel mods are going to be the same so lets not even factor that cost, gt2871 $1100, oil lines $150, circuit sports clocking kit $100. now for t3/t4... turbonetics (a quality turbo) t3/t4 $800, a quality manifold (like a peak boost for example) $700, oil lines $75, vband kit for exhaust??? replace current downpipe??? throw away your megan or greddy turbo outlet??? custom made downpipe??? we just blew $1500 in just a quality manifold and a quality turbo. OH SH*T! we forgot the wastegate... whats a tial 38mm go for? $250 ATLEAST! and we're only shooting for a hair over 350whp so why go on a build a 500whp setup and lose sight of the whole goal and project? see my point, why not make your power goal, which exceeds the gt28r, without spending a heap more money, maintain simplicity, and shed the headache of it all. Wow what a new concept, bolt on simplicity.

[float_6969]

HOLY F-ED UP POST BATMAN! You do realize that thing isn't readable, right? I'll give you till tonight to fix it, otherwise I'm deleting it.

[s13drifter88]

its fubar'd on my screen to. the whole thread is. im down to 22% zoom just to read. I was googling 2871 info and it brought me to this page and when i started to read it it was like omfgwtfftl