desperate need factory mechanic consult....

[stevesxm1]

have been a professional mechanic for 30 yrs bef retirement to the carribean. recently was very stupid and bought a car from miami sight unseen except for pics and got badly screwed. have always had maximas and needed a new one and found an 08 that needed a hood and a fended. supposed ran and drove perfectly. car gets here and they sent some other car and have disappeared. no excuses... i should have known better but for reasons to long to explain, this was supposed to be safe... never the less, here is the issue...

car was hit badly in the left front. needed all the primary structure on that corner... skirt, rail, top ledge etc etc.
when the car came out of the trailer it started and ran. shut it off immediatly because of leaks but it did start and run. got it home and moved some stuff around near the battery and the car wouldn't start after that... spun freely but no start. wasn't that concerned because that whole area had to come apart anyway and figured prob would be self evident then. so.... have now repaired all the structure and car is back on its wheels all square and straight but no cosmetic assembly yet. wanted to hear it start and run before i did than and while access to everything was easy. so... examined the wiring harness carefully and its fine altho the 30 pin connector that plugs into the CVT trans is broken badly . i straightend the pins and it pushes in place fine. all the fuses are good, all the links check fine, the air mass sensor was undamaged ... so... i put a battery in it and try to start it...
no spin. and thats where i am. the dash lights up, the pumps run but when you turn the key you get no start signal to the starter. if you jump across the starter, the motor will turn. now... i repeat... this car DID start and run. the motor was never out and all the work was done away from all the wiring and electronics and there is no evidence that there is a shred of damage in that area except for the trans plug....
also... the car came with a key that looks like a spare (factory) and a loose key fob that appears like it would have a detachable key or something like that... that fob does NOT lock the doors but i can't say it did before because i never checked that...
so... i need to talk to a real live factory nissan guy that works on these new cars all the time. i have questions like, a) does this thing have some sort of security lock out that that fob activates or something like that. b) is there a factory workshop manual somewhere that i can consult and c) if this car was sitting in your bay at the dealership, what systems in what order would you check? . i am willing to pay for the time if a successful resilution is arrived at.
because i am living in a third world country, there are no nissan dealers here to talk to... and you guys are probably better anyway. feel free to contact me direct at [email protected]

and thank you.

[Fezzik]

wow. Best of luck on it.

Here is the link to the fsm
http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/maxima/2008_Maxima/
You can copy those to your computer and open them there

Now, there is no telling what could be wrong, WIth the car unplugged for a long period of time or messing with wiring you could have triggered the security key. There is a chip in your key that will allow the car to start. If this needs to be reprogrammed you will need a consult III in order to do that.

When you say the car is not turning, is the starter actually turning the engine but the engine wont turn over? If there is no starter cranking i would start with that.

[stevesxm1]

wow. Best of luck on it.

Here is the link to the fsm
http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/maxima/2008_Maxima/
You can copy those to your computer and open them there

Now, there is no telling what could be wrong, WIth the car unplugged for a long period of time or messing with wiring you could have triggered the security key. There is a chip in your key that will allow the car to start. If this needs to be reprogrammed you will need a consult III in order to do that.

When you say the car is not turning, is the starter actually turning the engine but the engine wont turn over? If there is no starter cranking i would start with that.

not turning as in not spinning over. remember... failure happened in three stages... car started and ran in crashed state. then car would turn over but NOT start after i moved some stuff around near the battery crash area ... i figured i just knocked something loose... and now, some 2 months later car will not turn over w/ the key. if i jump across the starter, the starter engages and motor spins freely so this is some start signal deal... either , as you say, a programmable key deal or something like that but i have zero experience with this sytem so i don't know even what is SUPPOSED to be here... i have a factory key with no significant " end " on it that might house a bat or immobilizer or something and i have a fob looking thing that looks like it should have something inserted in it and has all the buttons for the locks etc but it doesn't work... do you know what you are saying is true for fact on this car or are you speaking generically about most modern electronic cars ? and THANK you for the manual and thank you for the answer and what is the procedure for reprogramming ? just walk into a dealer with the key ? obviously the car can't get there...

AH HA... addendum.... it turns out that this key i have acually inserts into this fob holder thing and now acts as a proximity deal... i.e it allows the ignition switch to be turned without the key inserted and the dash lights up but stillwill not crank nor will it allow the trans selctor to move nor will it lock the doors etc... so maybe it is this programming thing... anyone have some insight into this ?

[tigersharkdude]

Speaking from my experience with my 99...

I can start my car with a cheap $4 key from walmart IF AND ONLY IF my OEM key with the transponder is by the steering column.

When you try to start the car, do you have the keyless fob with you? It may need to be close to the keyless box that is attached to the bottom of the steering column.

The alarm could be tripped and causing it not start.

Just throwing some idea's out there

[stevesxm1]

Speaking from my experience with my 99...

I can start my car with a cheap $4 key from walmart IF AND ONLY IF my OEM key with the transponder is by the steering column.

When you try to start the car, do you have the keyless fob with you? It may need to be close to the keyless box that is attached to the bottom of the steering column.

The alarm could be tripped and causing it not start.

Just throwing some idea's out there

understood and yes and no... as just noted above, i have what i now understand to be the transponder but it apparently doesn't work in any significant respect. i think you are correct in that i have triggered the immobilizer if this has one some how... now what to do about it...?

[tigersharkdude]

If your key fob doesnt work, it will need to be reprogrammed BUT if youve tripped the alarm, you will probably need a dealer to fix that. If you know someone at a Nissan you could ask and see if they could send you instructions on how to de-immobilize it (is that even a word)

[stevesxm1]

If your key fob doesnt work, it will need to be reprogrammed BUT if youve tripped the alarm, you will probably need a dealer to fix that. If you know someone at a Nissan you could ask and see if they could send you instructions on how to de-immobilize it (is that even a word)

i am on the phone to nissan as we speak... we'll see. i presume no one here knows how ? or is a dealership mechanic that can get me an in w/ a service manager somewhere to talk to ?

[stevesxm1]

ok... update and more info no solution but something else...

lock people came over with hand held and reprogrammed the remote , the car and the key. now have green key light on dash and door locks work etc... but still no crank . also... with key in the on position and foot on brake, can't move transmission lever. have to manually unlock it. releasing the cable at the trans itself and trans moves freely so the shift lock in the center consol isn't getting the message somehow...

this all may come down to me being stupid... it would be really helpful to hear from someone that has an 08 max that can tell me what is supposed to happen and light up in what colors on the dash and what's supposed to blink and what isn't and the like... i'm beginning to wonder if i just have the security system set and don't know it...or something. and if there is a dealership mechanic out there...

[Fezzik]

Can you go into your car. Lock the car with the FOB. Then manually unlock the car and open it without touching the key or fob. Does an alarm sound or the security light blink?

[Markc]

I'm betting on that "badly damaged" 30 pin transmission plug. Not that I know that, but it is one variable that was changed.
i.e straightened out the pins and it plugged in.

[stevesxm1]

Can you go into your car. Lock the car with the FOB. Then manually unlock the car and open it without touching the key or fob. Does an alarm sound or the security light blink?

i get in the car... lite on top of dash board flashing once every 2 seconds. hit the lock command on fob... one single horn tone , lights flash once, doors lock and lite on top of dash goes solid red. MANUALLY unlock door with latch , and open door from inside and light goes back to flashing once ev 2 secs. repeat same test except unlock from inside w/ fob, light goes back to flashing once ev 2 secs...

a couple of things... with key in the fob ( not in the switch) turn switch and get green key light on instrument. then turn to ign on and that light along with all the others show up red along with the shift light next to it... then the key and shift light go out... is this normal ?

also... the shift lever will not move out of park no matter what i do with the key or the brakes. does the car have to be actually running for that to move ? i CAN manually unlock it and move it but thats not what i'm talking about... im talking about how most cars can be put in nuetral as long as the key is on and foot on brakes yet this car not... is this normal ?

[stevesxm1]

I'm betting on that "badly damaged" 30 pin transmission plug. Not that I know that, but it is one variable that was changed.
i.e straightened out the pins and it plugged in.

you may be right... hard to say at this point but i would say one thing and ask another... first, i'm pretty good at this. the pins straightend up well and the plug, while a bit beat , has all the sockets in lines and intact. when it went on it went on cleanly with a high degree of confidence... and then i took it off and checked and all the pins were still straight and it went on very well the second time. i'm pretty sure that it is acceptable for trying to start it. but you could still be right...

second... do you or does anyone know if this car should start or crank with that plug off ? most modern electronically controlled transmissions have a limp mode where if the plug comes out or the electronics die, the car will still start and move in limp mode... does this car do that ?

and third... this car acts just like a conventional auto trans does when you try to start it in drive... i.e. the nuetral safty switch or inhibitor switch keeps the starter from engaging... does anyone know where that is on this car ?

[goody90q45]

Did you try starting in neutral?

If it's a security issue unlock the trunk with the key and then try starting the engine.

On the previous test where you locked the car with the fob with you inside and then tried to open with the handle from the inside.....the alarm should have been activated.

[stevesxm1]

Did you try starting in neutral?

If it's a security issue unlock the trunk with the key and then try starting the engine.

On the previous test where you locked the car with the fob with you inside and then tried to open with the handle from the inside.....the alarm should have been activated.

well... i'm not sure i can see where to unlock the trunk with the key and never the less, the trunk is wide open. is there a key port somewhere ?

and certainly got no alarm ... but really... since i am inside with the fob and the fob is telling it that i am inside, why would the alrm sound ? i would think that the fob would have to be away from the car and you to reach thru the window and unlock it for the alarm to go off. people unlock the car from the inside while they are in it every day...

[tigersharkdude]

Did you try starting in neutral?

If it's a security issue unlock the trunk with the key and then try starting the engine.

On the previous test where you locked the car with the fob with you inside and then tried to open with the handle from the inside.....the alarm should have been activated.

well... i'm not sure i can see where to unlock the trunk with the key and never the less, the trunk is wide open. is there a key port somewhere ?

and certainly got no alarm ... but really... since i am inside with the fob and the fob is telling it that i am inside, why would the alrm sound ? i would think that the fob would have to be away from the car and you to reach thru the window and unlock it for the alarm to go off. people unlock the car from the inside while they are in it every day...

lock the doors with the fob so the alarm is activated. Then manually unlock the driver door from inside. The theft system will recognize that as someone trying to break in

[Fezzik]

For the lights and all check this video out. Its a 2007 but should be similar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKsOMO9cRg0

look at 5:13. He has it off and then turns it on. Do these lights corrispond?

Double check all the ignition wires and fuses outside in the engine bay as well.

[stevesxm1]

For the lights and all check this video out. Its a 2007 but should be similar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKsOMO9cRg0

look at 5:13. He has it off and then turns it on. Do these lights corrispond?

Double check all the ignition wires and fuses outside in the engine bay as well.

give or take. its difficult to see but they ARE red which is good because so are mine... did the fuses and links thing a long time ago... all thats fine. this is a signal issue. signal goes from the key sw to the smart power control module to the transmission control module to the starter relay etc...

being unfamiliar with both what these components look like and where they are , am having to sort thru 15,287 pages of this workshop manual to find each tiny piece of info... which is annoying. when i worked for nissan in the 70's and 80's things were a bit simpler. now i'm into this cvt shift lock deal which has 4 pictures where 4 individual components are located and i can only recognize two of the lcations as even areas of the car...

as for the security system... i'm not ruling any of that out but by the same token, i can't find any definitive info as to when you know its on and when you know its off... best now is " solid light is "on" flashing light is " off" and i have that function...

and i hate to disagree in an area that i am completely unfamiliar but the notion that the alarm will trigger by unlocking the car from the interior after " fobbing " it just doesn't make a lick of sense to me. that system works on a boolian logic and one of those " normal" conditions HAS to be "fob located within range and interior locks activated or deactivated" thats the whole reason for the fob... so the car knows what commands are legit and which aren't. if you are telling me that you can walk out to your car , and sit in it w/ the fob in your pocket, lock it, and then open the door and set off the alarm then i have to believe you but that's just crazy if it works that way. i have a frontier as well... if i lock those doors with the remote and then reach in thru the window and open it the alarm goes off like you say... but THAT remote doesn't have the proximity sensor... these cars do.

at any rate... i appreciate all the input. the more you say , right wrong or guesswork, will give me more insight and make me think in another direction. i would still love to communicate directly with a factory trained dealership mechanic by e mail if there is one out there... and i would love to have the definitive answer about whether the car will or will not crank or start with the cvt plug dis connected...

[Fezzik]

Sorry I wanted you to have the Fob away from the car enough it couldnt sense it when you open the car from the inside. This would help tell us that the Fob is being recognized. Are you confident the key people know what they were doing when reprogramming teh fob to the car? I know for us in the states we Can Not just have a normal key person reprogram the car but only with the dealers Consult III
But if I recall teh car should still crank but not start without the fob.

[stevesxm1]

Sorry I wanted you to have the Fob away from the car enough it couldnt sense it when you open the car from the inside. This would help tell us that the Fob is being recognized. Are you confident the key people know what they were doing when reprogramming teh fob to the car? I know for us in the states we Can Not just have a normal key person reprogram the car but only with the dealers Consult III
But if I recall teh car should still crank but not start without the fob.

i can't speak to anything with absolute certainyty because i never operated this car when it was "good". my only experience with it is when it came out of the container crashed, i will say that there is every indication that the key programming worked. when the ignition is turned on with the key in the fob so " keyless' in the switch, the key light comes on and is green... that tells me that it is seeing eveything as " authorized" and the fob locks the doors etc so that also tells me that the fob is communicating with the car...

ands thats all i know for certain for now...

[Fezzik]

Did you try to take the car out of park and put in neutral and try to start it? Also did you by chance do anything to the brake padal. The car needs the key near the steering column and the car in park or neutral and the foot on the brake. Lets say the key is ok. Now maybe the switch for park is messed up, or the switch telling the car you have pressed the brake pedal is messed up.
Did you check the wiring going to the body control module?

[stevesxm1]

Did you try to take the car out of park and put in neutral and try to start it? Also did you by chance do anything to the brake padal. The car needs the key near the steering column and the car in park or neutral and the foot on the brake. Lets say the key is ok. Now maybe the switch for park is messed up, or the switch telling the car you have pressed the brake pedal is messed up.
Did you check the wiring going to the body control module?

i have tried some of that. i manually unlocked the shifter and moved it around... no change. i took the cable off the transmission and manually shifted the transmission there just to see if it was off a detent or something and if there was an internal rail switch etc... but nothing there either. i have not looked at the pedal switch altho there seem to be two, one of which is disconnected... but that appeares to be the b lights but the answer is no... i have not looked there with any serious intent. nor have i started looking at modules and ill tell you why...

this car started and ran. i saw it. all the work that was done was done in the left front... nowhere else. as an engineer i can tell you with some authority that 9999999 times out of 10000000 , what turns out to be wrong is the last thing you touched. no one has screwed with the modules nor has anyone been near them. while it certainly is possible one is bad, logic says that the problem is far more likely to be where people WERE screwing around... that puts me in the harness/ relays etc all up in that left front and as soon as i figure out what any of that stuff is, thats where i'm headed next.

also... there is more to this... since when i turn the key on i get pumps running, etc, and i have to assume i have fuel pressure because of that even tho i haven't checked yet, it seems to me that when i short across the starter and make the motor crank, that it should start. it doesn't . so there is a primary signal issue to the ign/start relay somewhere i am fairly certain...where ever the hell that is...

[Markc]

If all else fails, you could ask a question @ just ask.com/nissan. You pay for the answer, (if satisfied), well worth it if an online mechanic can get you going.

[stevesxm1]

If all else fails, you could ask a question @ just ask.com/nissan. You pay for the answer, (if satisfied), well worth it if an online mechanic can get you going.

i'll just presume you're kidding about that...

[stevesxm1]

Did you try to take the car out of park and put in neutral and try to start it? Also did you by chance do anything to the brake padal. The car needs the key near the steering column and the car in park or neutral and the foot on the brake. Lets say the key is ok. Now maybe the switch for park is messed up, or the switch telling the car you have pressed the brake pedal is messed up.
Did you check the wiring going to the body control module?

i have tried some of that. i manually unlocked the shifter and moved it around... no change. i took the cable off the transmission and manually shifted the transmission there just to see if it was off a detent or something and if there was an internal rail switch etc... but nothing there either. i have not looked at the pedal switch altho there seem to be two, one of which is disconnected... but that appeares to be the b lights but the answer is no... i have not looked there with any serious intent. nor have i started looking at modules and ill tell you why...

this car started and ran. i saw it. all the work that was done was done in the left front... nowhere else. as an engineer i can tell you with some authority that 9999999 times out of 10000000 , what turns out to be wrong is the last thing you touched. no one has screwed with the modules nor has anyone been near them. while it certainly is possible one is bad, logic says that the problem is far more likely to be where people WERE screwing around... that puts me in the harness/ relays etc all up in that left front and as soon as i figure out what any of that stuff is, thats where i'm headed next.

also... there is more to this... since when i turn the key on i get pumps running, etc, and i have to assume i have fuel pressure because of that even tho i haven't checked yet, it seems to me that when i short across the starter and make the motor crank, that it should start. it doesn't . so there is a primary signal issue to the ign/start relay somewhere i am fairly certain...where ever the hell that is...

update... fixing the brake light switch solved the transmission issue. that now locks and unlocks as normal but had no effect on non crank non start issue.

[stevesxm1]

update two... poking prodding and massaging and car now cranks but no start. not sure whether fuel or ignition issue but will know that soon.

[stevesxm1]

update 3
found a section of harnes that was crushed and when opened up found 4 28 ga wires skinned a bit and close together... maybe touching, maybe not but seperated them and car started, albeit a bit ragged. but started and i shut it off... then wouldn't restart. then did. i ran it a bit longer and shut it off and tried again.. didn't then did.. checked trans... wheels went around shut it off. tried to start it again and got nothing... acted as if lost starter signal again ... left ignition on, shorted across the starter and it started right up. so... at this point i am thinking that the starter relay which i THINK is in that fuse box in the left fr corner where it was hit may have taken too much of a beating to go on... at anyrate, i think i have it on the run now...

[Fezzik]

I thought you double checked all the fuses and relays adn wiring.

ITs great that you are making progress. I bet this is making you feel better though!!!

[stevesxm1]

I thought you double checked all the fuses and relays adn wiring.

ITs great that you are making progress. I bet this is making you feel better though!!!

well ... as sherlock holms said ' if its not all the the things that are possible , then its something that's impossible" or in current engineering parlance " if you checked everything and everything is ok, then it works"

all the fuses et al were and are good and there was no obvious damage to the harness but lacking any direction in the hardcore electronics arena and no diagnostic equipment for that, i just went back with a magnifying glass and started looking at the harness in the crash area. and there was a section with a dent in the hard plastic shell. it was a matter of feeling it rather than actually seeing it... so i cit it open and thats what i found.

like i said tho ... now it does something different entirely and i have discovered that that relay i thought it was is not in the crash area but somewhere else entirely... but at least it's progress to some significant degree...

i know the key deal is good, i know the alarm/immobilizer stuff appears to be ok... i know that, fundementally, all the big electronic modules seem to be ok, i know i have fuel pressure and the the ecm and the injection are fundementally ok......so i can stick with the basic mechanics of fixing whats broken and damaged and in the end it will work. simple.
within the tach there is a yellow indicator light that says " SLIP" ... what is that , if you know ?

[Markc]

"slip" is traction control. Indicates wheel spin.

[stevesxm1]

"slip" is traction control. Indicates wheel spin.

is it a warning light as in " something wrong" or and advisory as in " you have turned traction control off " ?