Dealer trying to screw me over?

[jmejiaa]

I bought a Versa at Westchester Nissan. we love it but we paid 600 bucks for the color matched protection guards that were never installed. The first day we realized it like 2 hours later and called. The financial guy said that he'll have the sales guy call to setup an appointment. He never did. i called again the next day, he wasn't there. I have emailed him once, and left 2 voice mails plus 2 messages from the front desk lady but he won't call back.

It's been like 2 weeks and I haven't had time to go in. If they keep doing this is there anyone superior to them I can contact? this isn't fair, I shouldn't have to be begging a dealer to install something I already paid for.

[Ever Victorious]

There may not be a lot you can do to directly force the dealer's hand. You can always file a claim in small claims court, but that will likely cost more than the $600 we're talking about here.

however, you CAN call both the local BBB and Nissan North America to complain. THAT might get some action.

[jmejiaa]

I'm going to stop by the dealer tomorrow and talk to them, see what they say.

[jdshift]

Thats the spirit!! Take it to em ...........get what you paid for!!

[jfanaselle]

I wouldn't hesitate to take it up with Nissan USA's Customer Service either. They should be aware that the dealer is acting this way, because it de-values their brand.

[matt_a]

I doubt they are trying to rip you off. More than likely, what you are dealing with here is a group of incompetent people who are very poor at returning phone calls. They might be busy with new sales, so your problem is low priority (no new money to be made from you). There is no excuse for it, but it does happen. They would have to be total morons to actually try to rip you off for a product which you paid for and have a receipt. I would go there in person and demand that someone make this right. If your original sales person isn't there, ask for the sales manager. If he's not there, ask for the general manager. They aren't going to open up a big legal battle over a $600 item that you paid for. Good luck.

[Rockhound]

They would have to be total morons to actually try to rip you off for a product which you paid for and have a receipt.

Never underestimate the sleaziness of a car salesman. That's what the whole 'profession' revolves around...ripping people off.

[vpnavy]

My Versa was delivered without Floor Mats (Trunk, etc.). Like you - I just didn't catch it during actual delivery. However, I did pay for it! The ultimate responsibility (my opinion) falls with the Salesperson. He should have checked everything before delivery. This is the third (and last) car I will buy from this dealership. I played the "game" trying to get the mats. They even wanted ME to go down to Parts and order them. Anyway - I made a scene and got my mats. Funny thing is this is the first time I didn't get one of those "forms" from NissanUSA about my last purchase...

[jmejiaa]

we got that form and wrote that on it, I don't have the car right now so when I have it i'll go.

[PB]

Go to the dealer and find out who the owner is from your dealership,Talk to the owner about it,Most of the time owners are not even working there,Many times they are not even aware what is going on at their business,You will have it straightened out when you speak to them 100% of the time.

[marleyfan]

Never underestimate the sleaziness of a car salesman. That's what the whole 'profession' revolves around...ripping people off.

This is a bit of a harsh statement. There are sleazy people in EVERY industry. The "profession" revolves around making money. The vast majority of car salesmen do it honestly. For the most part the days of the sleazy used car salesmen are gone. Legislation and consumer protection laws have cleaned up the industry quite a bit. Is it perfect? No. But to make a blanket statement like that does car salesmen a disservice. The salesmen I have purchased my last 3 cars from have been honest, helpful, and responsible. Everybody has a bad car sales story. But then again everybody has a bad Walmart story or a bad McDonalds story.

[Rockhound]

This is a bit of a harsh statement. There are sleazy people in EVERY industry...

That's true, no doubt, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think dishonest car salesmen out-number the honest ones greatly. I believe that deception and dishonesty permeate used- and new-car sales.

If they (again, the majority of car salesmen) think they see a rookie car buyer come in - then they'll gouge him/her for all they're worth. Think of every trade-in that goes for way below value just because the owner is clueless.

I know this doesn't make me an 'insider' and nor does it portray every salesman, but my brother worked for a Chevy dealership in Tulsa just after college as a fill-the-gap job...he quit after a month because of the dishonest deeds that were practically encouraged. Add that in with every car purchase I've observed of my parents and brothers, as well as my own, and I think I've got a pretty good idea as to how they operate.

So what would you call charging $500 for a "lifetime" Simonize paint treatment that'll wash off in a few months? Is that being honest?

Yes, they're out to make money, which is fine, but the same old slimy tactics are still used daily, and 100% honesty is an exception to the norm.

[Great White Versa]

I would have to agree with Rockhound that though there are many groups established to protect consumers, car salesman still use many dishonest tactics in order to sell cars.

Case in point:I was really frustrated with my job (I use my versa to deliver souvenir items to various stores/casinos here in Vegas) and therefore with the Versa and was going to trade it in and get something different. I went to the only Subaru dealer in town to see really what it would cost for a new WRX. I felt like i was completely honest and upfront with the salesman in that I most likely would NOT buy the car that day, but wanted to see what it would cost so that I could make my decision soon.

We drove the car, they appraised my V and then the guy came back with a paper showing what it would cost for me to buy the WRX. It was broken down somewhat like this:

The WRX will cost you $25,000

We will give you up to $13k for you trade (whatever it takes to pay off the loan)

(I have oregon plates that I would be transferring to the new car so no tax/license fees)

which leaves you with payment X (I can't remember what it was exactly)

I took one look and said, that payment doesn't look right unless you are charging me a high teens interest rate. He responded with, oh, no, you're getting our promotional rate of 5%. So then I said that that can't be cause the numbers aren't right. So he says "You're not counting the 'extra $3,000'"

This went on for quite some time till finally he explained that when they said they would give me X amount for my trade what they really meant was that it was worth $9,600 and that any additional would be applied to the new loan. So I asked him why he didn't feel it important to include that key detail in his presentation and he gives me some lame excuse of "oh I just present the information as they give it to me". What a crock.

But it gets better...

So I ask for my keys and he just kind of sits there, so I get up and go to the front desk and make a big deal about asking for my keys so now he hurries up and gets them. As I walk out to the car he follows me and says "I get the feeling that you're upset about something". So I say, "No kidding I'm upset, You LIED to me" He says, no I didn't. So I say, "Ok, you INTENTIONALLY withheld important information from me so that I would make a decision not in my best interest" Got in my car and left him standing there looking confused.

But wait, it gets better...

He called me back four or five times to 'apologize' (including calls from his sales manager) and in the last one he says "the manager worked up some better numbers for you, would you like to hear them?" I say, "ok fine, whatever" and he and gives me 'the new numbers' which was just a new monthly payment. When i ask him if he knows any details on this new payment he of course says that he does not.

So I set up a little spreadsheet to figure out what exactly they changed to lower my payment so drastically and see that in order for them to have kept the loan a 5 year loan they would have had to give me nearly 0% and and 13k for my trade. Which, surely was not the case. So they I ran the numbers in a 72 month loan and saw that in fact, they changed NOTHING other than extend the loan from 60 to 72 payments and that was what they meant by "ran some new numbers".

So yes, car sales people still do deserve the bad stigma that society gives them as this was not the actions of a Rogue sales person but the actions of a car salesman acting under the guidance of his manager. Absolutely ridiculous.

Sorry that was so long.

[Rockhound]

^ I know this thread has veered slightly off topic...but that above situation is really what I'm talking about being so prevalent in car sales. Much of what they do is lying by omission. They can be the friendliest, most "helpful" bunch around, but while they smile at you and shake your hand, they're scheming a way to get more money out of you.

And often people don't run the numbers before they get to the dealership, so they don't know what to expect their monthly payment to be. It's absolutely scary to consider how many people get "swindled" into the same type of deal that GWV explained above.

[marleyfan]

As I said. We all have our horror stories about car purchases. I could take my last three purchases as examples of how car dealers DON'T deserve the rep they have just as you are taking your example as proof that they do. People tend to remember and talk about negative experiences much more than positive ones. This thread will now come alive with stories of crooked car dealers. Why? Because those who have had positive experiences are less likely to respond. After all....it makes a much more interesting read if a negative tale is told. All of this is anecdotal anyway. We all have our opinions based on our experiences. Unfortunately most opinions are colored more by negative experiences than positive ones. So the negative experiences have more of a lasting impact.

[Rockhound]

^ I understand perfectly well what you're getting at. But I will say that it's a bit naive to think that dealerships aren't taking advantage of people right and left.

I suggest you read this article on MSNBC regarding dealership 'tricks'... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3660557/

A quote...Quote »Most consumers really don’t understand the finance part when they buy a car. That naiveté allows unscrupulous dealers to add in lots of extra charges that you never see if you don’t read the fine print or sift through the paperwork.[/quote]This happened to me - but I caught them before signing the dotted line. But that doesn't mean that it happens to everyone. But it also means that I'm not the only individual the dealer has tried it on, correct? Just type in "car dealership tricks" on Google and scroll through some of the hits. Lists of common tricks don't exist because of an unfairly-applied stereotype.

All I'm saying is that the car-sales industry tends to be deceitful, at least in the US. Look at all the ads for a particular monthly rate, or deals that are too good to be true (like "reverse payments" - that are all over the TV ads here). Sure, there are pleasant car buying purchases completed every day, too. But sometimes people get taken and are none the wiser.

I'm obviously not going to change your mind about this - but people need to be better informed as to how they can avoid common car-buying pitfalls. News sources like MSNBC and Kiplingers wouldn't cover these "tricks" if they weren't prevalent tactics.

[Rockhound]

Marley, I forgot to mention that my brother recently had a wonderful car buying experience with a local Dodge dealer (bought his wife a Pacifica). It was hassle- and deception-free. They dealt with him fairly, and he spoke highly of the dealership afterword.

I understand that they aren't all "crooks" or out to do bad things...instead of characterizing them as either "good" or "bad" it would just do every prospective car buyer good to understand potential pitfalls going into the purchase. If those issues never come up, then that's great, but if they do, then they'll know how to handle the situation.

[marleyfan]

Agreed Rockhound. It always pays to be diligent and informed. The more you know the less likely you are to be taken advantage of by some unscrupulous dealer. My point was that it is unfair to characterize ALL car salesmen as crooks out to rip off their customers. I never denied that it does happen.

[Great White Versa]

I will say that buying my Versa was one of the most pleasant car dealership experiences that I have been involved with. Super easy, I told them what i needed to happen for me to buy the car and 10 min later they came back with almost exactly what I had asked for. Then, cause I didn't have insurance yet (I had been out of the country for a substantial amount of time) they held the car for me over the weekend.

I was pleasantly surprised...

[BillyBeaneBall]

I agree about salesmen being "dishonest" but I'm not sure how much I can blame a guy who makes ONLY commission in making the most money he can out of every deal. If every deal was a "good" deal for the buyer I imagine the guy's family would ultimately suffer. The fact that the dealerships and ultimately the automobile companies approve of salesmen doing thier jobs this way is the REAL problem. They pay thier guys a pittance (if that) and expect them to bleed every last dollar out of the consumer.

Consumer education is the way to combat against it. Unfortunately few people do thier homework when buying a car or lack sufficient backbone to say "no" and walk out. If every consumer was informed and were able to work out deals that were better in thier interest, maybe the "sleazy" car salesman and the companies they work for would go extinct...

[jmejiaa]

They called back. It turns out they were waiting for the parts, I don't get why they didn't call me before. So my experience was all good like I said before. My mother is in love with the versa and Westchester Nissan is great and very helpful, just a little busy.

[Rockhound]

Glad to hear it's resolved.

[charlybasset]

Rockhound, I agree with you that most people are not informed or research their car purchase before they go into a dealership.

The absolute worst thing to do is (unless you have money to burn... which is great for the economy) is to go into a dealership and let them convince you of a car to buy. One must do their homework which may include a few hours on the internet perusing the Nissan website and then http://www.edmunds.com

When I got my V, I already checked the dealer inventory online from the Nissan Website, so I knew he had the color I wanted with the options I wanted with the MSRP listed beside it. I test drove the V one last time (after having test drove it a week before) and I said "let's talk" . I asked the salesman if he had the Versa SL with my options in stock and he said yes, and I quoted the VIN number. He was shocked. He said Yes we do.

When you negotiate for a car that the specific dealer has in inventory, they will be more likely to cave in on a price than if they have to order the car for you. They pay a lot of money for lot space and holding onto that car. They WANT to get rid of that car. He tried to steer me toward an ALTIMA, but I said, "Randy, I need you to keep your eye on the ball and focus on the VERSA SL, not the Altima".

Yadda, Yadda, Yadda, $16,100. Like all y'all said, it pays to do your research... and shop at the end of the month or at the end of a quarter.

Cheers!

PS: Oh yea, I want to share this site with all of you if you ever decide to lease: http://www.leaseguide.com and purchase the Lease Kit for $20 US. I had no clue about leasing and it gave me a lease calculating worksheet that told me what I should be paying for my monthly payment, residual values, and everything. Totally worth it!

[BBISHOPPCM]

I know I was hosed when I bought my V. I had tons of negative equity in an undesirable trade-in (it was a 2004 Frontier, 2WD, a tough sell in new england). I wound up financing about 19k for an SL CVT with ABS, mats, door sills, and splash guards. The upside? it was the exact car I was looking for, only better. My payments increased by roughly $20/mo, but I save nearly $40/mo in fuel, and I can drive it in the snow. A wash, I guess. Next time I buy a car, I will be sure to pay the trade-in off beforehand.

[marleyfan]

I think its time for one of the salesman or dealers who visit this board to step up and tell their side of the story.

[Great White Versa]

PS: Oh yea, I want to share this site with all of you if you ever decide to lease: http://www.leaseguide.com and purchase the Lease Kit for $20 US. I had no clue about leasing and it gave me a lease calculating worksheet that told me what I should be paying for my monthly payment, residual values, and everything. Totally worth it!

Another good website for estimating payments and/or comparing various methods of purchasing (be it a home, car, boat...) is http://www.fincalc.com It is a great, free tool for most financial aspects of life.

[BillyBeaneBall]

I doubt a salesman would bother to even try defending his profession on this board...did you see how much bile was spewed in this thread???

I've worked on commission and understand why some salesmen lie or skirt the truth or omit things when trying to make a sale. I definitely don;t agree with it though, I was ableto do just fine in sales by being honest and knowing my product but it does take some skill and alot of flexability to sell that way. Most salesmen either don't have that skill or just feel they can do better being dishonest. I found the easiest way to sell is to ask the customer what it is they want and go from there all while trying to meet thier desires. Exceptional customer service can easily outweigh the product and sway a customer into going with you over the opposition...but you MUST follow through after the sale as well or there's no point in it...

[Bubs daddy]

Quote »If they (again, the majority of car salesmen) think they see a rookie car buyer come in - then they'll gouge him/her for all they're worth. Think of every trade-in that goes for way below value just because the owner is clueless. [/quote]This is the free market system. Because a saleman would give a lowball trade offer doesn't mean that's "gouging." That's business. The values are only guides. No one forces anyone to take in their trade. The buyer can always walk away.

The value is what someone will give for the car at that particular time. It's not the salesman's job to be sure everyone gets the same trade because there are so many factors that affect that trade. Condition of the car, current demand, region, mileage, incentives and many others. Because someone is clueless doesn't make the salesman dishonest.

[Rockhound]

Because someone is clueless doesn't make the salesman dishonest.

Riiight. That makes sense. Look, here's what happened to me on my trade-in - I know this is just one example, but bare with me.

I had run a Kelley Blue Book appraisal of our trade in vehicle and printed it out to take with me. They offered $2k under value, and I told them so. After going back and forth for about an hour, they came back with their own KBB print-out (mind you, I hadn't shown them mine yet) showing that "our" car was worth $4,000 instead of $6,000.

He put it on the desk in front of me and asked "so where did you come up with $6,000 as the value? You know we're gonna lose money on that Camry if we give you more than $4,000..." So I put the real appraisal printout in front of him and proceeded to show him that the appraisal he ran lacked several features that our car had - keyless entry, power everything, CD, etc. Then I also showed him that the RETAIL value of the car was in excess of $8,000 - and that they would be making a nice profit even at $6,000.

He laughed, shook his head, and then got up and patted me on the back and said "you sure did your homework, kid." Long story short, they came up $1,000 on the trade and an additional $500 off the Versa (I told them I didn't care about each price, I just wanted a particular trade difference). So I conceded $500 and was on my way.

I know that this is how almost every trade-in goes. I understand that is a "free market system"... but how some people on here can be so blindly trusting to act like these sort of tactics aren't the least bit slimy absolutely astounds me. He BOLD FACED LIED to me - it was only my knowledge that saved me from being one more sucker.

Call it what you like, but they try to give people the worst deal possible on trades, expecting most people to be clueless. It isn't an honest procedure. Plus - his KBB "appraisal" that "proved" the value of my car was a LIE...it wasn't my car at all.

I think its time for one of the salesman or dealers who visit this board to step up and tell their side of the story.

So why are you so bent on proving salesmen and dealerships to be saints and prove these accusations to be isolated events? Car sales revolve around deception. Educating one's self about financing and common salesmen tactics eliminates the "power" of said deception - but to act like it's a minor occurrence is being quite naive.

If some honest salesmen came on here and actually shared "their side of the story", the "bile" might be worse than that already "spewed".
Modified by Rockhound at 12:38 PM 10/17/2007

[Rockhound]

May I suggest this reading...Confessions of a Car Salesman on Edmunds.com

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/....html