Cylinder Sleeves

[TonyMontana]

hey wussup people

im about to buy a 240sx, and i have money left over to get a new engine

my goal is a 400rwhp, car

i was wondering, how do i resleeve the sr20det with better sleeves??

what companys do it??

and prices??

thanks buddys

[GraySilvia]

I'd keep the stock sleeves if i were you...they're nikasil lined and that coating is far superior to iron sleeves. Not to mention it'd be cheaper and handle 400rwhp easily. All you need to do is hone the cylinders slightly, have pistons made, and voila! That's what i'm doing. Just my $.02

[TonyMontana]

hone??

[TonyMontana]

so if i get forged pistons and rods, that will be good enough for 400rwhp???

and waht does hone mean??

[GraySilvia]

Hone is like boring, except you just make the cylinder a little bit bigger concentricly, whereas boring you can use a different center if you need to....but anyway, you hone it just a few thousanths to get a smooth cylinder and then you can have pistons made for it. It should only cost $100-$200 for someone good to hone it. But one thing, you have to use a diamond bit honing machine on nikasil, not carbide like most people have.

With forged pistons and rods, that's plenty for 400rwhp. Hell, people get 400rwhp on stock motors....not that they'll last, but...

[GraySilvia]

One more thing, just so you know, the service limit on the stock bores is .008" overbore, so you can't go more than that. But, you shouldn't need to either as long as your cylinders are in decent shape to begin with.

[TonyMontana]

so thats all i pretty much have to do for a bullet proof bottom end??

i dont want nething breaking on me

[GraySilvia]

Well, you COULD do sleeves, and it WOULD be stronger, but, unless you're planning on breaking the 600 or 700 hp mark, you don't need them. So, yeah, pistons and rods will do you well :ylsuper

[godspeed]

not that you don't know this but when you go that high make sure you look into making the head better...the weak point is the head...but im sure you know that

[TonyMontana]

so the purpose of a hone is just to smooth the cylinder walls, not to make it bigger, even though u are making it slightly bigger

how do u strenghthen the head??

[godspeed]

there are many ways to strenghthen the head, springs, retainers, rocker arm stoper!!!!, just all the little stuff up there, and then you can go to cams, and all that good stuff, do a search there are many post on head work....good luck!

[Cyberkreig]

.008" is the limit? Jun's Stroker kit increases size by 1mm.. I'm sorry but I cant convert that in my head.. I am getting to this: Can you use the stock sleeves and bore/hone 1mm?

[Tai Mai Shu]

Yeah, they have a 2.2 stroker kit out for the S13 SR20DET they sell it at phase2

[Cyberkreig]

I understand that, but would installing the kit mean you needed to re-sleeve, or can you just hone/bore?

[Tai Mai Shu]

dunno, I dont even know if someone has even bought it, I think its just hone.

[GraySilvia]

ummmm......008" is like very very small, lemme convert it....like ~.2mm, so you'd have to resleeve the block to run the stroker kit, or any pistons over 86.2mm bore you'd have to sleeve it or get the cylinders recoated with nikasil...but that would run like $1000 to re-nikasil it. SO, stoker kits are hella expensive since the cost of the kit doesn't even include the machine work.

[TonyMontana]

where do i go to get my cylinders relined with nikasil

[GraySilvia]

errr.....i don't know of any specific place...if you search for nikasil in yahoo or whatever, you'll pretty much only find places that work on snowmobiles and motorcycles. Only thing i can tell you is to find a m/c or snowmobile shop that you like and give them a call and see if they can do the SR.

[TonyMontana]

how bout those cylinder liners that r available in some toda stroker kits on ebayr they any good??

cuz when i do get my sr, im gonna wanna probably get a jun stroker kit next summer(not this), and the pistons that come with that kit r 87bore, but the sr20 is an 86 bore, and ive bin reading on this forum saying its not safe to have a 1mm over bore, and in my head im thinking, why would they sell this kit if that was the case

neways, i want a realiable car that will last me till im done univesity, thats fast, and i have money (3 years of flipping souvlaki, and not spending a penny), but i am willing to pay not to have nething break on me

so tell me, what would u do??

my goal for the car is a 400rwhp on pump gas(94octane), that has a relatively smooth power band, so i can drive it daily

[Cyberkreig]

Yeah, I work Pizza delivery (Not in my SR) so after this summer I will have another assload of cash (last summer bought my SR) Not to mention I have a sponsorship deal in the works! Before that the Stroker was a pipe dream.. but now..any shop would love to be the first on the east coast to fully build a JUN SR.

[TonyMontana]

whats the point of resleving the nikasil if when u recoate it your still gonna have a bore of 87mm

like is the stock engines block nikasil diffrent than the wont they reline it with??

u under stand what im tryng to say

[ItzGenX]

Quote »whats the point of resleving the nikasil if when u recoate it your still gonna have a bore of 87mm[/quote]

I read that like over 15 times and still dont get it. Anyway, I will try to answer.

Boring the stock block will not yield any good even if you recoated it with nikasil. The stock block has a VERY thin sleeve that is coated with .008 nikasil. Boring 1mm off that sleeve will not only take off the nikasil, but it will also take almost the whole sleeve with it. If you recoated a bored stock block with nikasil, it will do no good because the cylinders will flex and bulge from pressure. The only good way I see is to buy these thick iron sleeves and bore them. If you want these sleeves to last like stock, then coat them with nikasil. Overall, the price isn't worth all the trouble when it comes down to only 400hp. A stock block can handle 400hp. Doing the boring etc will be useless unless you plan to hit 700hp+.

[TonyMontana]

then how does the jun s15 have a 87mm bore, and can still handle 500+ hp

what did they do to that engine?? iron sleeves??

[Tai Mai Shu]

They sprayed there special jun powder over it and then BAM 500+ hp!

[Cyberkreig]

Where can you find these thick iron sleeves you were talking about? I havent seen SR sleeves anywhere.

[ItzGenX]

Toda, Jun, and HKS make them. Also, many independent companies with no track record also make sleeves for many motors with custom specs(sort of like piston manufacturers). The Jun Silvia has ductile iron sleeves in it.

[GodzillaFan]

Yes Juns engies are OF course resleeved.. just because nikasil is stronger than iron, doesnt mean that aftermarket iron sleeves aren't stronger than the sr's stock sleeves. the stock sleeves supposivlty give out at about 500 crank hp...

its pretty foolish idea to go w/ a stroker kit, without resleeving IMO.

[GraySilvia]

ok, how many people are actually going to make a 600+hp daily driven SR?? not many, i don't think. So why bother with iron sleeves?!? Nikasil and stock sleeves will do just fine for 500 or more hp, and be cheaper, so why bother?!? And will someone explain to me how 200cc's and 5mm of stroke are going to make it worth paying $5000 for a stroker kit? :rolleyes I mean, seriously....if it wer $2000, i could see that. However, for that kind of money....why wouldn't you just buy an RB26DETT and put it in your car and make 800 or 900hp??

[Cyberkreig]

GraySilvia -- you are right, not many people in the 500 hp range. And you have to do alot of work and spend alot of other money before it becomes an issue. However, there are many people with 300 - 400 hp. And many many more with that as their goal. Driving for a few 1000 miles at 15lbs boost till you can afford a bigger turbo, then driving a few 1000 more at 20lbs boost.. many people would want the peace of mind of a forged internal rebuild. Something that IMO would run NO LESS than $2k.. at that time, an overbore/resleeve wouldnt seem so useless (motor is all ready open, downtime, etc)

[drumma022]

I cant believe that nobody has set this straight yet... I wont go into detail, but these pics of the Toda 2.2L Kit will explain the reason of how they are able to bore 1mm over...

As far as I know, JUN uses similar sleeves when they go 2.2L.

Personally, I will prolly leave stock bore when I build the bottom end, just due to the fact that these kits are so friggin' expensive. Some may say it is worth it, but I would have to say that for a Toda 2.2L Stroker Kit w/o Rods (2188cc), part number 1300-SR2-0T0, $6600 is definately not worth it. The sleeves alone will run $1600.