CVT vs stick

[Hussain]

most of us know that CVT altimas don't allow full throttle when you hit 90 MPH (the reason why i've never been able to hit 100 MPH in the 1/4 mile) which would make the stick shift faster.... i have a theory that CVT is actually faster then stick shift but after 90 mph stick shift wins. this is just my little theory and never really had any proof. but i was thinking about it and my 1/4 mile time slips also say what i ran in the 1/8 mile (before you hit 90 mph). i want to compare my 1/8 mile times before i unbolted the exhaust (when i ran 14.4 in the 1/4 mile) to the stick shift 3.5se times..... i couldn't find the 1/8 mile times but i know a guy with a 3.5se stick shift was running a few times in the 1/8 mile...... if someone could tell me the 1/8 mile time and MPH i'd really appreciate it.

[Hussain]

also i know the stick shift is like .1 secs quicker in the 0-60 but then again that could just be because stick shift can launch at a higher RPM and at 60 mph CVT is almost 100% caught up. once again, this is just my little theory and i have no real proof.... which is why i want to compare the 1/8 mile times.

[08Coupe]

Most newer cars are faster with automatics..Not sure about CVT's but take a regular automatic, add a high stall converter then point and shoot..lol Now the stick will always rule the full track, being able to downshift, pick perfect gearing ect.Wait to a M6 gets a 1/4 slip~ the 60 ft., 1/8 mile et and mph comparison will answer your question.

[Hussain]

Most newer cars are faster with automatics..Not sure about CVT's but take a regular automatic, add a high stall converter then point and shoot..lol Now the stick will always rule the full track, being able to downshift, pick perfect gearing ect.Wait to a M6 gets a 1/4 slip~ the 60 ft., 1/8 mile et and mph comparison will answer your question.

the stall converter helps build up the RPMs when launching it right? because something like that needs to be done with the CVT altimas and take out the restrictions...... so do any 6 speed manual 3.5se people have time slips?

[adidas2go]

[QUOTE=08Coupe]Most newer cars are faster with automaticsQUOTE]

I dont think thats true, I would say only a small percentage. A few of the european transmissions with the DSG and SMG, but not very many automatics are faster than manuals

[leifab]

I should here in about two weeks....next test n tune (that i can make) at my local track isnt until the 3rd.

[leifab]

I dont think thats true, I would say only a small percentage. A few of the european transmissions with the DSG and SMG, but not very many automatics are faster than manuals

I agree 101%. Most manual transmission drivetrains have a power loss of about 15% - 18%. Compare that with that most automatic transmission drivetrains (at least the ones that use a viscous fluid) have anywhere from 25% - 35% power loss. Given the same engine power output, the maunal will win most every time.

[Chuck61686]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but Hussain, do you have the premium package or the base model 3.5SE? Reason I ask is cuz the premium package weighs about 100 lbs more...which factors in a LITTLE bit in the quarter mile...maybe about 0.05-0.1 secs, but every bit counts!

[leifab]

good rules: of thumb:

100lbs of static mass = .1 off 1/4 mile1lb of rotating mass = 7lbs of static mass- 1lb of rotating mass = approx .5 whp

[600hppot]

good rules: of thumb:

100lbs of static mass = .1 off 1/4 mile1lb of rotating mass = 7lbs of static mass- 1lb of rotating mass = approx .5 whp

Those numbers always change from place to place. lol.

Here 1lb rotating mass= 7lbs staticOther places I come across I read it equals 10lbs static.

I don't put much value over those numbers. Think for example a 2 horsepower lawnmower doing the quarter mile stock, then adding 100 lbs. Will it drop add .1 seconds to the quarter mile? I think it will add a whole lot more.

Then think of a 5 ton Hummer with 1000 horsepower (let's just imagine). Do you think a measly 100 lbs will do anything at all to its quarte mile? I don't.

These numbers always depend on how much weight and how much horsepower the stock vehicle comes with. Don't think in constants, think in percentages.

[Hussain]

no i have the base 3.5se CVT. and about automatic vs stick shift i did hear from several people that auto is faster. STOCK vs STOCK manual wins BUT after a couple modifications to the automatic transmission (not hp or anything, just the transmission) and automatic is faster. this is one reason why many professional race cars are actually automatic. i don't know the exact details but i did hear that automatics can be faster with a torque converter and maybe some other stuff.

[08altima35]

i've ran the 1/8th mile about 15 times in my car when it was completely stock. (injen intake doesn't really count). i was averaging around 9.2 - 9.3, but had a perfect run with no wind and the motor was cool and broke into the 8's with a 8.8. this is with stock tires and stock everything except the injen intake and yes, the 6MT.

[08altima35]

put a stop watch on this run the best you can. i'm pretty sure i ran a 9.1 on this one.http://youtube.com/watch?v=a7a_a5Wmfx0

i also have another vid of me getting 0 - 60 in 5.2 and the tires spun a bit at launch.

[One Crazy Max]

heres what i did in the 1/4 with my sedan 6MT V6. as you can see my overall trap speed didnt increase much from the 1/8 mile trap, which is because i ran out of gas in 4th gear. but my 1000ft time tells you i wouldve ran either a 14.1 or 14.2 trapping at 98-100mph.

but back to the 1/8 mile. i ran a 9.221 and trapped 79.04mph...what did you do with your CVT hussain?

DIAL 14.60R/T .88660' 2.205330 6.0761/8 9.221MPH 79.041000 11.9391/4 14.511 MPH 82.47

[One Crazy Max]

put a stop watch on this run the best you can. i'm pretty sure i ran a 9.1 on this one.http://youtube.com/watch?v=a7a_a5Wmfx0

i also have another vid of me getting 0 - 60 in 5.2 and the tires spun a bit at launch.

btw i was watching your video of the in-car view, and that screeching sound between shifts is not good. my car does it sometimes because the throttle plate is left open a little and the revs jump in btwn shifts. i think its the clutch...how many miles do you have on your car, and do you beat on it alot?

[adidas2go]

btw i was watching your video of the in-car view, and that screeching sound between shifts is not good. my car does it sometimes because the throttle plate is left open a little and the revs jump in btwn shifts. i think its the clutch...how many miles do you have on your car, and do you beat on it alot?

hahaha

That "screeching" sound is only him "catching" 2nd gear. Happens when the engine is spinning faster than the transmission when you drop it into the next gear and tires catch up with the actual speed. It actually is a direct reflection of a good shift

[niztec]

no i have the base 3.5se CVT. and about automatic vs stick shift i did hear from several people that auto is faster. STOCK vs STOCK manual wins BUT after a couple modifications to the automatic transmission (not hp or anything, just the transmission) and automatic is faster. this is one reason why many professional race cars are actually automatic. i don't know the exact details but i did hear that automatics can be faster with a torque converter and maybe some other stuff.

reason for race cars that are auto is to run consistent times. just press gas and go and you should be able to hit roughly the same numbers each time. where as manual, you wouldnt hit the same numbers all the time and you would have to judge when to shift or when to let off the gas...

i know for bracket racing, auto is preferred...

[adidas2go]

reason for race cars that are auto is to run consistent times. just press gas and go and you should be able to hit roughly the same numbers each time. where as manual, you wouldnt hit the same numbers all the time and you would have to judge when to shift or when to let off the gas...

i know for bracket racing, auto is preferred...

To add to that. Auto with Paddle shift or straight cut gears are used more often on the higher end super car class races because its more accurate and they shift faster than Mr. Andretti himself

[08Coupe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7d2Zec-3GY

Also CVT's,paddle shifts, clutchless manuals(manumatics) are still considered automatics..There is a reason why the fastest drag cars are auto. If tuned correctly and the factory torque mangt. removed the auto outshifts a human..
Modified by 08Coupe at 3:40 AM 4/22/2008

[Hussain]

lol looking at my time slips, most of my runs were in the left lane (when i did NOT unbolt my muffler) and that's the lane that the 1/8 mile sensors arn't working lol i only found 1 time slip of me in the right lane and it just happens to be my worrst one! where i ran a 14.5 lol my 1/8 mile in that run was 9.474 @ 78.021 mph..... so you were about 1 mph faster (1.019 to be exact) and that was on my slower run.... so i guess it's safe to say they do the same speed in the 1/8 mile but as for the time, i think stick might be like .1 secs quicker in the 1/8 mile if raced correctly.

when i unbolted the cat-back (when i did a 13.9 in the 1/4 mile) i did 8.992 @ 80.289 mph in the 1/8 mile.

[shift_mikey]

So the general concensus is that the CVT slows down at 90 mph? I can feel the drop in accelleration (litteraly like letting off of the pedal) right at 80 MPH

[chamade]

Will there be a way to remove the 90mph slowdown?What about a "racier" torque converter?

[08altima35]

btw i was watching your video of the in-car view, and that screeching sound between shifts is not good. my car does it sometimes because the throttle plate is left open a little and the revs jump in btwn shifts. i think its the clutch...how many miles do you have on your car, and do you beat on it alot?

lol, that was when the clutch had about 1800 miles on it man. don't worry! that sound isn't grinding bro.

[Hussain]

Will there be a way to remove the 90mph slowdown?What about a "racier" torque converter?

good question. i'm guessing the only way to get rid of the 90mph slow down is to get a ECU reflash or something? does anyone know of any way to get rid of 90 mph slow down? and maybe a way to allow it to build up revs.... i heard CVT doesn't have a torque converter like regular automatic but i don't know if thats true or not.

[One Crazy Max]

hahaha

That "screeching" sound is only him "catching" 2nd gear. Happens when the engine is spinning faster than the transmission when you drop it into the next gear and tires catch up with the actual speed. It actually is a direct reflection of a good shift

no no no...you are misunderstanding me. what you are defining is chirping tires, what happened in the video was not that at all. trust me if he wouldve chirped 2nd the tires wouldve been spinning a little and then caught up, and it happened 3 times in that vid if im not mistaken, and ive never chirped tires that loud going into 4th. i have the 6MT, and i know the sounds that it makes. that screeching noise happens when your foot is still on the gas in between shifts leaving the engine to rev up a little and causing it to spin too fast before you engage in the next gear which then causes the screeching noise because the clutch has to catch up to the flywheel.

adidas im not sure if youve driven the new alti 6MT hard yet but thats what happens when you dont shift properly. it doesnt effect time, but it causes damage to the clutch!

[One Crazy Max]

lol looking at my time slips, most of my runs were in the left lane (when i did NOT unbolt my muffler) and that's the lane that the 1/8 mile sensors arn't working lol i only found 1 time slip of me in the right lane and it just happens to be my worrst one! where i ran a 14.5 lol my 1/8 mile in that run was 9.474 @ 78.021 mph..... so you were about 1 mph faster (1.019 to be exact) and that was on my slower run.... so i guess it's safe to say they do the same speed in the 1/8 mile but as for the time, i think stick might be like .1 secs quicker in the 1/8 mile if raced correctly.

when i unbolted the cat-back (when i did a 13.9 in the 1/4 mile) i did 8.992 @ 80.289 mph in the 1/8 mile.

but before you unbolted the catback you were also slower in time....so i come to the conclusion that CVT FTL, and 6MT FTW

[adidas2go]

no no no...you are misunderstanding me. what you are defining is chirping tires, what happened in the video was not that at all. trust me if he would've chirped 2nd the tires wouldve been spinning a little and then caught up, and it happened 3 times in that vid if im not mistaken, and ive never chirped tires that loud going into 4th. i have the 6MT, and i know the sounds that it makes. that screeching noise happens when your foot is still on the gas in between shifts leaving the engine to rev up a little and causing it to spin too fast before you engage in the next gear which then causes the screeching noise because the clutch has to catch up to the flywheel.

adidas im not sure if youve driven the new alti 6MT hard yet but thats what happens when you dont shift properly. it doesnt effect time, but it causes damage to the clutch!

just listened to the video 3 times, still don't here anything but the tires spinning at the launch , tires spinning into second, and what sounds like a hard shift into third. Pretty sure he never goes into 4th, but it could just be my sound sucks

[One Crazy Max]

reading > you...lolif you read what i said in my original post, i was talking about the in-car view video, not the video at the track.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6m6QsLLdfY0

now watch this video and tell me if you can hear the screeching noise everytime he shifts, and then you will know what im talking about

[AltiCoupeDriver]

lol CVT A/C> 6MT Sedan.

You do have a sedan don't you?

[notaverage]

I dunno man, sedan's are pretty sweet. I know I'm gonna get flammed for that one, lol