Custom Intake Plenum

Discuss the RB20, RB25 and RB26 series engines.
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s13drifter88
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Ok so I dont even own an RB but I had a stock RB20 plenum laying around and needed an idea for a project for my Machine Tool classes in college. Ive seen RIPS, Greddy's and CPC's so I decided that for I would make one of my own just for a grade and though it will probably never even be used or run I thought it was a neat idea. So here it is, just a few pics Ive been taking throughout the process so far. All peices have been cut, milled and geometrically profiled for the relation to their corresponding peices and clearance with other parts. The coolant neck will be cut, turned and relocated as well, I just havnt gotten there yet.

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All intake runners have been cut then milled to exactly 2 inces


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I'll probably trace the intake runners onto the base plate and then cut the holes so that the base plate will fit snuggly over the runners, then can be welded on each side for a solid fit

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No ends have been squared with their corresponding peice so that it creates a "valley" and then a "fillet" weld can be used to increase the strength on the part.


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legit240sx
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And they charge 1G for 50bucks of aluminum, five feet of welds and a little engineering. Blame it on the flow characteristics right?

evildave32
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nice make em and sell em to us rb20 people

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s13drifter88
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idk, I guess I never really thought about making them and selling them. I was just doing it for a grade since Im working on my aerospace machining degree and wanted a little help keeping my 4.0gpa. I guess if I had more materials I could make more. I didnt know they sold for a grand, sounds kinda high to me. For 1G it had better have my choice of injectors and fuel rail for no extra charge lol, but I have a CA18 so Ive never really even priced anything for an RB other than a clutch for a buddy. I guess once I get it finished I might have it flowed. Anyone have a flow report for a stock RB20 plenum so I can compare the two? BTW, this one has been made to suit the Q45 TB

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Sgt. Kong
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Looks good, don't forget velocity stacks internally... You can find em for a grand w/ throttle body 90mm or so water and fuel rail, no injectors. Def hit me up if you're selling off this grade, i'll run it!

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s13drifter88
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I may make another one. It just depends on materials and spare time a Im only in the machine shop from 9 to 2 on tuesdays and 11 to 3 on thursdays. all other time is in math, english, speech, quality control concepts and geometric dimensioning and toleranceing. Dont worry, I wont forget the stacks. Ive already got 2 made that I cut in the lathe and then pressed the taper into it. This one I probably wont sell cause if I get an A on it the school will put it up in the display case in our Aerospace Traning Center. Ill try to get some flow numbers on this thing and if materials permit I may spend some time in the evenings making a few more. If flow numbers look good then I'll prob tally up my cost to make them and then maybe make 3 or 4 more and see how they sell. Id prob sell them for maybe like $200 over my cost to make them but idk yet

mixeds14
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u need to make one for the neo 6 motor.. u can get rb20 n 25 all day long... u have to pay a $hit load for the r34 rb25 if they atually make one.. sure few people on here be interested in one.. or atleast make an adapter so the r33 will bolt up to the r34 head.. :dblthumb:

julio
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I hope there is some CFD anaylsis to confirm the geometry otherwise you will most likely be sacricifing mucho low end for top end. Intake velocity geometry is a tricky business as it is hard to compliment low end torque with upper rpm horsepower, thus several incarnations such as the variable intake manifold. This isn't even mentioning airflow between cylinders (a/f ratio hurdles: even the stock rb26 manifold has lean issues). Trying to do so by trial and error is pretty much useless unless your are shooting for only one part of the power band.

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legit240sx
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im talking out my ahem and have have never built or looked into what it takes to build a Intake mani but on a turbo motor it seems like your just pushing air.... dont see the airflow complication in that...

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s13drifter88
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I dnt know all the math and physics behind it but i do understand flow charateristics and biasing between runner length and plenum volume ect ect but like I said before, this is really just for a grade and I only put it up on here just cause I thought it was neat idea for a class project. Ill definitely flow it just to see what it does and if it does come out to be of definite gains I may make another one and actually see how it performs. Im not really trying to get into the parts manufacturing to much but if they come out to be a quality peice then I may make some more to help me pay for books, tuition and some other bills Ive got.

julio
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s13drifter88 wrote:I dnt know all the math and physics behind it but i do understand flow charateristics and biasing between runner length and plenum volume ect ect but like I said before, this is really just for a grade and I only put it up on here just cause I thought it was neat idea for a class project. Ill definitely flow it just to see what it does and if it does come out to be of definite gains I may make another one and actually see how it performs. Im not really trying to get into the parts manufacturing to much but if they come out to be a quality peice then I may make some more to help me pay for books, tuition and some other bills Ive got.
Yea, previous post was somewhat of a drunken rant, so I appologize if it was rude. But in all seriousness, deveolping an intake manifold can be tricky. There are a lot of factors to account for and some pretty complicated equations to work out. In the end, you want the air to travelling at sonic speed (almost choked) as it travels down the intake runners/head for maximum efficiency (in whatever part of the powerband you wish). Thats where all the runner length, diameter, air flow, and plenum volume factors come into account. Then you always want to reduce head losses (friction), so you incorporate items such as velocity stacks, cylindrical plenum, etc...

Either way, I think fabricating an intake manifold like yours will be a great experience. I always encourage people to do their own work, it helps people really understand how things work. I would try and find some of the velocity stacks I was talking about though!

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s13drifter88
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Ive got 2 stacks already. I made them as well. Other than the part of the lower plenum and Q45 throttle body Im pretty much making everything else myself. Hopefully Ill be able to start on the fuel rail Im making for it this week as well. I just dont like the look of the stock one on my hand crafted plenum so Im going to make a rail and polish it too just for appearance but it will be fully functional as well

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Gabes13
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legit240sx wrote:im talking out my ahem and have have never built or looked into what it takes to build a Intake mani but on a turbo motor it seems like your just pushing air.... dont see the airflow complication in that...
Turbulence and reversion will diminish performance whether the motor is force fed or not.

I'm very interested to see what the OP comes up with :crazy:

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s13drifter88
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Well Im about to finish up this plenum. I got around to making the other 4 velocity stacks and finished the top section to it. Also drilled and milled out the holes for the intake runners. Im going to finish them by hand with my dremel though for an exact matching of the ports.

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Got the top cut and milled to spec today.

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All the stacks were cut and faced on a lathe then I cut a taper into them with my chamfering bit.
After cuting the taper into them I cut a cone out of cold rolled steel and then used a press to press
the "bell" into the stacks.

l0nestar
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If this works out for you, you could be onto something for the 20 guys.
I may have some interior photos from an 'RBTally' manifold if you are interested in them.

Basic flow design characteristics tell me that there are some definite improvements to be made, but I cannot say anything since I have yet to perform some preliminary CFD analysis, or tig my own intake manifold (got a stellar deal on a GReddy and went with it or I would have).

Reguardless of what the outcome is, at least you took the initiative to actually *do* something vs 'armchair quarterback-ing'.
I'll see if I can pick up some other designs for you to reference.

l0nestar
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Also, I sooo wish I had access to some of the toys that you do. (cough lathe and mill)

I shouldn't be so jealous, I do have plenty of access to welding / cutting equipment, just not much in the way of machining.

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s13drifter88
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H*ll yeah, Id love to get my hands on some more designs. Fabrication has always something Ive enjoyed. Anyone can buy something that someone already made but it really says a lot when you take the time and make something yourself. It may just be an intake to anyone else but to me, its not. Its not a greddy or a cpc, its mine.

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Gabes13
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Question: I'm not sure if you addressed this yet, but, wouldn't it be better to make the stacks kinda "parallel" with the runners, so there isn't any "ziggy zwagger-ness" going on?

l0nestar
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Finally.. somone who "gets it".

l0nestar
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Gabes13 wrote:Question: I'm not sure if you addressed this yet, but, wouldn't it be better to make the stacks kinda "parallel" with the runners, so there isn't any "ziggy zwagger-ness" going on?
That would involve re-casting a new manifold.. or quite a bit of modification for aesthetic purposes.
(hint: Nissan cast it that way. )My 25 plenum was the same way. Look at yours if you still have it.

240z4u
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You need to test fit that. My experience says you will want that TB pointing more downward and away from the runners from a fitment perspective.

Oh, I see you are just doing this for an exercise in building. Your quality in craftsmanship looks great, nice job man.

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Gabes13
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l0nestar wrote: That would involve re-casting a new manifold.. or quite a bit of modification for aesthetic purposes.
(hint: Nissan cast it that way. )My 25 plenum was the same way. Look at yours if you still have it.
I understand that the stock manifold and runners have curvature, but what if you didn't cut the runners parallel with the flange. What if you cut the runners more perpendicular, so the stacks had a smooth transition into the runners. This would obviously mean the plenum wouldn't be horizontal anymore, but rather sort of tilted towards the ground. I mean, I'm not some flow dynamic/certified/pro/expert/dude, but I thought this idea could smoothen things out and provide a unified "bell curve" into the block.... if that makes sense.

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DustinZ
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Simple equation for runner length as determined from engineers at chrsyler NL=84000 were "N" is the engine rpm and "L" is the distance, along the tube centerline, between the entrance to the plenum and the head of the intake valve. plenum size itself I dont think is that determing of a factor as opposed to plenum flow characteristics. Turbulence should be negligable since this would probably be street car not F1. The velocity stacks are great especially with the extended runner design. Gives you room to "tune" the manifold by an application basis.

DustinZ

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s13drifter88
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Ok so heres a few more pics of th stacks I made. Just wanted to post a few mor pics of them so everyone can see exactly what Ive done and how I did it. Hope you guys like it. Thanks for the feedback, I intend to have this thread follow this thing the whole way.

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These are just some different angles of them. I polished the inside of them with 500 grit emory cloth
for smoothness and an easy, steady transition for air flow.

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This is what I cut, faced and tapered all the stacks on. Its my favorite lathe.

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This is probably my favorite end mill in the whole shop. The spindle is true to .0001 on my Mitutoyo indicator.
I milled every peice on this exact one including making my 2ft straight edge that I used for inspecting EVERY peice
after machining it for straightness and flatness tolerance.

l0nestar
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Evan is absolutely correct that you will want the TB pointed 'downward' slightly.

Drifter, PM me your email address.

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s13drifter88
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well i got the hole in the plate for the idle air valve milled, bolt holes drilled, tapped and chamfered. Other than sitting a little bit lower the IAC still sits in the same orientation in comparison to the stock upper plenum.

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Powered Bya Skyline
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.... why the h*ll did i take automotive and street rod and custom fab for my degree? ive also thought that maching an making stuff was tight as h*ll but i for some dumb reasion thought the street rod and custom fab would teach me some of that stuff/ along with that equipment.. dude hats off to you. thats deff. awesome. this is deff. a topic iam keeping my eye on.

bigfootap
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I would totally buy one of these! it looks great! I might of overlooked this but my question is will it clear the thermostat housing?

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s13drifter88
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It clears everything except the stock coolant neck on the lower intake but im going to cut that off and make a whole new neck for it. I can make it in the lathe and then move it to the end mill to mill the end where it will meet the manifold and then drill and tap the holes for the 2 coolant temp sensors. After that I'll have the Instructor in the welding shop next door weld it all up for me. He volunteered to do it for free for me cause he said he wanted to use it to give a demonstration on doing some special kind of welding for his advanced aero space welding class. Im pretty much making it and then walking 30 feet across the parking lot to have it all welded by a 35 year welder for NASA lol :dblthumb:

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s13drifter88
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Ive really been thinking about one for a CA and an SR just do it cause I have my spare CA and an SR just sitting in my garage. Im currently building my other CA in my coupe and building this plenum has really been a great learing experience. Im looking forward to having it flowed compared to a stock manifold too. A friend of mine has volunteered to let me use his RB20 hatch just to get some dyno numbers before I complete this project. The owner of a shop here in my town has agreed to let me pay for a dyno session and make 3 pulls one day with the stock manifold and then come back the next day and make 3 more pulls with the new plenum. The following mods on the car is a 3" turbo back exhaust, fmic, spec 12lb flywheel, turbonetics 60-1, tial 38mm w/g, RC 550's, nistune, n62 maf and an hks evc-s. Our current power ESTIMATE is about 350-ish whp so we're hoping to hit around 370-375whp without changing anything else but the plenum other than maybe tuning for the difference in the flow. If we pick up anymore power then thats just a bonus i guess. After we dyno with it, its coming back off to get polished and put in the project display case for honor students.


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