Crower Cams

[Hard_Limitz]

I thought everyone would like to know the ETA on the Crower V2 and V3 cams."The new billets cam cores will be available Feb 2006. Cost will be under$300 for the pair (V2 or V3 spec).

Thanks for your interest in Crower,"

Crower Cams & Equipment Co, Inc6180 Business Center CourtSan Diego, CA 92154-5604 USATel: 619-661-6477Fax: 619-661-6466http://www.crower.com

[H.D.HUMPERDINK]

oh god i dont think I can wait! ohhh geeezzzz i need now pants now!!

[HolyShiznit]

I will believe it when they are actually out. I was one of the first 5 people orginally slated to get the V3 cams in....after 9 months of waiting and BS from Crower I requested my money back and bought nitrous.

[turtl631]

Under $300 for the pair? That seems really cheap, if that is true these will definitely be the cams of choice for turbo KAs.

[grimple1]

just 2 more weeks....

pdm-racing.com has colt cams for the ka24de

[HolyShiznit]

just 2 more weeks....

pdm-racing.com has colt cams for the ka24de

^^^We have covered this before but just for the sake of keeping the thread bumping... PDM-Racing might have cams for the KA24DE and claims it has turbo cams, but it has NO dyno sheet proving the turbo cams work, especially compared to the Crowers. Remember the Crower V3's hit a peak of almost 50rwhp on a Mustang Dyno when Ivan tested them, and they gave HUGE area under the curve gains. I for one will wait until Crower actually has them available before I attempt to buy them. My head has been built around those stupid V3's ever since last spring.

[dsylvia]

not to bash the crowers, cuz i plan on getting them too.

but ivan was able to get the really high hp increase with them is becuase he tuned the EMS to work best with the cams. the majority of users will probably not be able to do this. so power gains prolly will be lower for us other folk.

they'll still be awesome cams though.

[virus77]

If only I still had my KA...

[HolyShiznit]

not to bash the crowers, cuz i plan on getting them too.

but ivan was able to get the really high hp increase with them is becuase he tuned the EMS to work best with the cams. the majority of users will probably not be able to do this. so power gains prolly will be lower for us other folk.

they'll still be awesome cams though.

Incorrect. Anyone with ANY ability to alter there A/F ratio will benefit as much as Ivan did. We had a thread on this and Ivan even said that the gains would be approximately equal. The V3's will need additional fuel because of the amount of air they are moving. So essentially all you will need is to add fuel so you don't run lean. That's all the tuning you will need for the cams. I speak only for the V3's because I don't care about the V2's. So even people with an AFC can "tune" for the cams.

[BlackFlag_s13]

Incorrect. Anyone with ANY ability to alter there A/F ratio will benefit as much as Ivan did. We had a thread on this and Ivan even said that the gains would be approximately equal. The V3's will need additional fuel because of the amount of air they are moving. So essentially all you will need is to add fuel so you don't run lean. That's all the tuning you will need for the cams. I speak only for the V3's because I don't care about the V2's. So even people with an AFC can "tune" for the cams.

[MarkEmark]

^^^We have covered this before but just for the sake of keeping the thread bumping... PDM-Racing might have cams for the KA24DE and claims it has turbo cams, but it has NO dyno sheet proving the turbo cams work, especially compared to the Crowers. Remember the Crower V3's hit a peak of almost 50rwhp on a Mustang Dyno when Ivan tested them, and they gave HUGE area under the curve gains. I for one will wait until Crower actually has them available before I attempt to buy them. My head has been built around those stupid V3's ever since last spring.

It should also be noted that, as seems to be the trend lately, the V3's seem most suited to dyno-queens and drag people...50 rwhp, along with a substantial loss in torque, which coupled with the massive turbos everyone runs now (that are needed to make this 50 rwhp gain), will make the lag even more painfully slow...Don at PDM is an actual race car driver...and an avid autocrosser, so I'm sure his cams are far better suited to day-to-day driving where some people would like torque below 5000 rpm. 50 rwhp doesn't come from thin-air, remember that. It's all about compromises. I just don't understand how everyone lives with laggy turbos and low torque--i thought almost everyone on here drove their KA-Ts daily?!?!

On the plus side, $300 seems damn cheap for a pair of billet cams...but do they come with shims? 16 shims at the price Nisssan charges (IIRC, $11) adds up quickly!

[grimple1]

^^^We have covered this before but just for the sake of keeping the thread bumping... PDM-Racing might have cams for the KA24DE and claims it has turbo cams, but it has NO dyno sheet proving the turbo cams work ...

They got them for the NA cams though.

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/DOHC ... od....html

[klattr1]

I just don't understand how everyone lives with laggy turbos and low torque--i thought almost everyone on here drove their KA-Ts daily?!?!

is 599 ft.lbs considered low torque?...Heath and Keith's 638whp/599 ft.lb KA actually had alot of HP/TQ even across the low to mid range. im looking at the dyno sheet right now and the powerband is actually quite impressive.

[HolyShiznit]

It should also be noted that, as seems to be the trend lately, the V3's seem most suited to dyno-queens and drag people...50 rwhp, along with a substantial loss in torque, which coupled with the massive turbos everyone runs now (that are needed to make this 50 rwhp gain), will make the lag even more painfully slow...Don at PDM is an actual race car driver...and an avid autocrosser, so I'm sure his cams are far better suited to day-to-day driving where some people would like torque below 5000 rpm. 50 rwhp doesn't come from thin-air, remember that. It's all about compromises. I just don't understand how everyone lives with laggy turbos and low torque--i thought almost everyone on here drove their KA-Ts daily?!?!

Did you even see the original dyno graph? There was almost NO loss in torque, peak torque went up by 30 if I remember correctly and the only "loss" came at 3800 where it was down 7 from the stock cams. Also it was proven that it spooled the turbo faster than stock cams... I have no idea where you read all the problems. According to Ivan and the back to back dyno graphs the V3's essentially kept the stock torque curve while allowing faster spool up and MUCH more top end. The gains across the board resulted in a MUCH better power curve than stock. Also remember that the V3's were designed for 20+ psi and require stiffer valvesprings/titanium retainers.

Sorry if I seem like I am defending these but I was on the phone with Ivan all the time about these things when they first came out and it seems that everyone forgot how amazing they were.

[nissanfanatic]

Anyone using a tuned ECU/MAFS setup would prolly not even need to re-tune for the cams. The extra airflow is metered and fuel is added accordingly. Ivan prolly just had to re-tune the Twins' car because of its MAP air metering system.

[MarkEmark]

is 599 ft.lbs considered low torque?...Heath and Keith's 638whp/599 ft.lb KA actually had alot of HP/TQ even across the low to mid range. im looking at the dyno sheet right now and the powerband is actually quite impressive.

You guys are missing the point...of course that's a lot of torque...that's an incredible amount of power. I'm clearly not alluding to the highest HP KA's ever created with insanely good, professional tuning.

I'm cautioning all the n00bs who see these posts and think "wow, i can make 50 whp for $300" That's wrong. (Also, no one's mentioned shims!!! That's an incredible hidden cost) Ivan's car was incredibly well-tuned and was already making inordinate amounts of power...but he DID do tuning after the cams were in.

These cams clearly are not for the faint of heart, especially if you need to add stiffer valve springs and ti retainers, so I guess those already making more than 400 whp don't really give a crap about streetability and day-to-day driving. Has anyone tried going through emissions with these things?!? How's the idle? I'm just trying to be a bit more pragmatic and am playing devil's advocate here. Specially ground turbo cams do allow for quicker spool, which will obviously boost low-end, a fact that I was neglecting when I posted.

But regarding the dyno comparisons, how valid was it? It was not a simple change of cams--it was a change of cams AND tuning. I dont know what he's actually running for a tuning system, but someone mentioned MAP. He may "needed" to tune it after adding the cams, but you can't say the CAMS added 50 whp if tuning was done as well.

I think a better, more valid comparison would be V3 cams with stiffer valve springs and retainers versus stock cams and stiffer valve springs/retainers,using the SAME ECU (I'm referring to lower power levels here, in the 350 whp range), such as an Enthalpy. As was mentioned, anyone using an ECU/MAFS would not need to re-tune for cams...the extra air is measured by the MAFS--thats the whole purpose of it. But you can't change multiple things and then say it was just one thing that caused the increase in power. That's just illogical.

Clearly they're good cams, and I'm not knocking on them...but they're only good for those looking to make some serious power. BTW, has anyone tested the V2s?!?

[HolyShiznit]

I don't think Ivan ever mentioned needing to reshim everything. I don't think you need to do that with the Crowers. In fact I could swear Ivan said he didn't with the Twins car.

As for the "tuning" portion you are still missing it. Let's say Captain n00b has stiffer valvesprings and retainers. Let's say Captain n00b buys these cams for his JWT ECU set up. He will get all the power Ivan got with no difference. Just as someone mentioned the ECU will see the additional airflow and add fuel accordingly. Bam. As for a MAP based system, they will simply add fuel accordingly manually based on whatever system they are using. If you have a MAP based 240 then tuning it for cams should be no big deal at all. I don't understand why one person would get "less". It's a simple matter of airflow, the cams will ALL ALLOW the same amount of airflow in. So you are just shooting for an A/F ratio that safely matches the new found air. I don't see how Ivan could have gotten "more power" from his tune.

So essentially the only "bad" things about the V3's is that they require stiffer valvesprings and retainers and that on MAP based cars they will require additional fuel tuning.

Let the kids play with the V2's. The V3's are designed for 20+psi applications anyways.

Let's put it this way, come February I will get the cams, drop them in and give everyone the report with a dynograph.

[BlackFlag_s13]

Ok, lets say I don't want a bagazillion psi of boost and 600hp, just a good streetable and trackable 350hp. How does the V2 stack up? I've seen all the stuff concerning the V3 but don't really know that much about the V2. Was there an initial dyno when Ivan got the first set? I think I'll have to be bitten by the boost bug pretty hard to throw away my DD and Auto-x car just to have lots of power that can only be used on a strip...

[HolyShiznit]

The V2's expanded the area under the curve greatly and picked up a peak power of 25-30 rwhp on the Mustang Dyno if I remember correctly. Both cams offered the exact same drivability of a stock car. The V2's are a HELL of a cam for lower boost people. I seriously doubt that anyone will be disappointed with these cams. I am hoping that Ivan will buy a pair or somehow get them and run them on AMS's dyno and have new dyno sheets up, since all of the information from PHATKA-T is lost now.

[Wykid 240]

Anything new onthe V2's?

-Jeramy

[Florida240sx]

V2's are just a swap correct?No need for anything done to the head?

[klattr1]

that is right.

[boostin50]

no we did not shime the twins car when the V3 cams were installed. there was no need to the machining was dead on.

[97s14pwar]

so are these cams out yet or what??

[HolyShiznit]

Nope. Crower let's everyone down again! God they SUCK at marketing.

[97s14pwar]

well that sucks, i was looking foward to picking some up

[Florida240sx]

I got money set aside.We need to start a broup buy.At least have the first ones made reserved for us.

[Hard_Limitz]

As of Tuesday Feb 21, 06 Brian e-mailed me back saying,They will be available by the end of March.

Thanks for your interest in Crower,OK That sucks balls because he said Feb 06 before. I then gave Eric a call at BnE Customs and he said he could get them for $399 and that they were available from Crower. I am hella confused now. For one the time frame and another price. However I shall see if they can get it within the next few days. I emailed Brian about the price difference and availability. If Eric really can get them, SOON, then I will let you guys know. $399 for a pair of billet cams is still worth it in my book. But to put you guys at ease I already transferred my funds to BnE Customs and shall see if Crower really does have them in stock now. If they do I wonder why they are available to a shop instead of the general public first and also why the price increase. Maybe the cost of the aluminum or what not. I will let you guys know if the cams are received soon. Crower is in San Diego and BnE Customs is in Baldwin Park so shipping should be fast.

[Iamjohnhayes]

any chance in hell they will produce a ka-e cam?

[fiznat]

I then gave Eric a call at BnE Customs and he said he could get them for $399 and that they were available from Crower. I am hella confused now.

I wouldnt give anyone any money for these cams until I actually physically see them in their box right in front of me. Crower has set (and missed) dates on these cams LOTS of times now, so it shouldnt be any suprise that this February deadline was the same old story. They probably have a product number for the part already, which is most likely why your guy thinks he can just call up and order the cams-- but guaranteed, they're not available from the factory yet.