Crash Test Results for Nissan Cars

[TTkickedin]

Hey, I've always been interested in the importation of Japanese marketed cars, and what seems to be the major barking point for the powers that be, is "IF IT DON'T PASS SAFETY, IT CAN'T BE IMPORTED"


So this just might help somebody

http://www.safecarguide.com/mak/nissan/idx.htm

I don't know if i'm completely wrong but, the US NHTSA uses the NCAP standards for crash testing. The NHTSA has always adapted their standards to what the NCAP offers.

Japan's/Europe's crash tests are similar to the US standards. So if a car rates as good overall, it should be allowed to import right?

Now what about american cars that don't rate good on crash tests, but are allowed to operate anyway? Crown vic is one that scores marginal and is also a cop car, the chevy cavalier scores a marginal as well. But these cars are allowed to operate on US roads (granted the car's im picking are from the same time period of an R34 as well.)

Maybe somebody can make more sense out of these facts and figures than I could. There's gotta be some type of information here that can help the fight to legalize importation of cars.

[TTkickedin]

OH, and in 2001, the R34 was tested. You know what the results were?

5 stars on the JNCAP TEST at the time.

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/mpaine/ncaplist.html

I see no reason why it shouldn't be legal here. it can be emissions compliant with enough work.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Because you are dealing with the US government. All logic must be thrown out the window in favor of bureaucracy and political BS.

[TTkickedin]

So with this information, it shows no modification is needed to make an r34 road legal in terms of safety.

Has anyone tested the stock rb26 with a restrictive stock exhaust? California guys feel free to chime in. Let's find out why the skyline isn't legal, because it sounds to me that it's just the paper talking, no facts to support their 'unsafe' and 'emissions failure' claims.

Nissan should've invested money in bringing the skyline to us standards, it seems like it wouldn't be all that hard anyway.

[Rev_D21]

Personally it would be funny to see the R34 be exempted from importation even when it does hit 25 years old just to see the look of sadness on fanboi's faces.

[Loki]

Not surprised to see the S13 has an Excellent rating for front impacts

[themadscientist]

I can confirm an R30 can take a front end hit and drive home on two blown front tires running over its own fender.

[OriginalWheelman]

Keep in mind that the Police Interceptor Crown Vic is NOT a standard Crown Vic. Almost every part is different. Even the frame.

[TTkickedin]

I'm not a fanboy by any means, I just appreciate good cars when I see them.

But one thing I'm definitely not a fan of is the government's actions towards importing foreign cars. It really isn't fair to enthusiasts. They just say it's illegal and don't show any valid, fact-based reason why it isn't. (Should expect this I guess... Damn shame)

Well, the information is here for the dedicated enthusiast. I have no time for. Supreme court, nor regular court for that matter, to dispute this.

Cheers.

[numbnuts240]

It really isn't fair to enthusiasts.

the us government does not care about car enthusiasts.

[asoomal]

OH, and in 2001, the R34 was tested. You know what the results were?

5 stars on the JNCAP TEST at the time.

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/mpaine/ncaplist.html

I see no reason why it shouldn't be legal here. it can be emissions compliant with enough work.

My automotive business teacher used to work for Nissan Corp, and he told me that they didn't import them here was because of the steering column issues, apparently there wasn't enough room to swap it over the other side. They could have re designed it, but I guess it wasn't worth it to them.

[Jesda]

Love cars? Great news! The government hates you.

[MinisterofDOOM]

no facts to support their 'unsafe' and 'emissions failure' claims.

The latter is pretty much guaranteed. Remember this engine was designed 30 years ago. Now look at how fast things move. Look at all the tech and the increacing pace at which it advances just to keep up with modern emissions standards. Maybe the RB26 would have passed 1980s emission testing. But I seriously doubt it would meet late-90s or early-2000s standards (which would be what you'd need for any R34). 300hp out of 2.6 liters and two turbos isn't impressive by modern standards, which tells you something about its relative efficiency. Emissions and efficiency go hand-in-hand.

[TTkickedin]

If they can make a vg30dett emissions legal, (bunch of extra systems involved) I'm sure they could've made the rb26 legal. If Nissan took the money to get past making LHD, fixing the steering column issue, and making the engine OBD2 with EGR system and maybe 2-3 more cat's in the exhaust, I don't doubt it could pass.

Numbnuts, Since when does Kanye acknowledge that car enthusiasts even exist? Actually, what celebrity would besides Jay Leno, Adam Carolla, and Jerry Seinfeld *edit* Jessie James too

[MinisterofDOOM]

If they can make a vg30dett emissions legal, (bunch of extra systems involved) I'm sure they could've made the rb26 legal. If Nissan took the money to get past making LHD, fixing the steering column issue, and making the engine OBD2 with EGR system and maybe 2-3 more cat's in the exhaust, I don't doubt it could pass.

Numbnuts, Since when does Kanye acknowledge that car enthusiasts even exist? Actually, what celebrity would besides Jay Leno, Adam Carolla, and Jerry Seinfeld *edit* Jessie James too

The VG30DETT died in 1996. The R34 was made from 1998 to 2002. Different standards. And, actually, the VG30DETT lost VVT (which decreased power output) in 1996 due to the new OBDII standards which Nissan had trouble conforming it to. Similar thing happened with the VH45, which lost VVT in 1996 but then came back in 1997 with reduced displacement and power output to meet modernized standards. So back to exactly what I said: maybe in the 80s. Not when it would matter for the R34 you chose as an example.

[TTkickedin]

Either way you look at it, Nissan is an automotive manufacturer; If they wanted to bring the skyline to the states, they had, from the r32 gt on, a rb26 that they could've experimented with emissions on.

[asoomal]

If they did, I'm pretty sure they would not have the same amount of power as the Japanese spec models, and it would cost a lot more than Fox body's and Camaros.

Also, adding more 90's emission related junk to engines would probably render them useless. (Reliability)

[TTkickedin]

Definitely wouldn't have as much power. But the 240 guys get over that same issue (no sr20det here). Either they swap the engine, or drop money in the KA. Problem solved.

In the case of the emissioned-like-crazy RB26, (missing some steps, you get the idea though,)

You take this:

Buy this:

make this:

And add a little bit of this:

And hopefully you dont end up liek this:

[krash]

Personally it would be funny to see the R34 be exempted from importation even when it does hit 25 years old just to see the look of sadness on fanboi's faces.

Why the hell does liking a sweet car make me a fanboy?

Not surprised to see the S13 has an Excellent rating for front impacts

Good thing too!

[OriginalWheelman]

I honestly believe the Skyline would be just another sports car if it had been released in the US. The only reason most people want it is HYPE. They haven't driven one, have no idea what it is capable of, and read dated articles from 10-20 years ago and drool. You want a Road legal Skyline? Go buy a G35.

[speedeast]

Didn't the R34's legality have something to do with seatbelts? I don't know. The R33 is legal for importation though...

And for the record, I don't accept the G35 as a skyline. It wasn't built as a successor; and it doesn't compete. R34, V35, then R35? I think not.

[OriginalWheelman]

MotorEx pulled some shenanigans. They crash tested a bunch of R33s, then said that the R32 and R34 were the same chassis. So they did all the crash tests and research for the R33. When they were found out, the R32 and R34 were essentially blacklisted. The ones that were purchased legally through MotorEx before they were found out, are Grandfathered in and still legal, because it was the government's fault for allowing them to be imported in the first place. Those purchasers did nothing wrong, and thus, can't be punished. However, without proper crash testing, R&D to make them conform, then converting another set of cars and crashing them (20 cars per test attempt mind you) and again if they don't pass. The reason they are illegal is because of MotorEx we know the Skyline does NOT conform to tests without being altered, and is thus, not legal for importation. If MotorEx hadn't essentially pointed this out to the government, it would be a different story. If you were to buy the cars, and perform the test / modify / test process until they passed, you would be legally able to import the cars. This requires a massive capital investment. Far more than is worth it than for 1 car. You would need to make a business out of it, like MotorEx. But Because someone got greedy, the tuner community is being punished. If you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at MotorEx.

[TTkickedin]

we know the Skyline does NOT conform to tests without being altered, and is thus, not legal for importation. If MotorEx hadn't essentially pointed this out to the government, it would be a different story.

Motorex didn't test the r34, so how would they know it needed to be altered to be road legal? Who says it isn't? Where is this information located that somebody crash tested a Nissan r34 and found it to not conform to US standards?

The information I found, however, proves otherwise and can be organized for the nay-sayers as such:

Fact 1: The IIHS uses the same standards as the ENCAP, JNCAP and ANCAP.

Fact 2: Any NCAP for that matter. proof: Daewoo Leganza tested by IIHS and ANCAP, scores similar. (note, that would be a POOR, and is still road legal)

Fact 3: The way it should work is, if a car scores at all on the safety test a poor or above, it should be legal in the US! There's cars that barely pass the IIHS standard, yet are road legal.

Fact 4: NOTE, r34 scores an EXCELLENT rating. And also note that with the proof above, the IIHS and JNCAP tests are very similar.

Fact 5: JNCAP cars are also proven to be road legal in the US. They don't even have to be a good rating either. Compare the stats for yourself. The prius? Only tested via the JNCAP yet is road legal here.


So now that we understand the above, the R34 was only tested by the JNCAP sooo...what's the issue again?

Oh wait, the RHD part (r33 is legal though, so scratch that) and emissions. throw 5 cats in the b**** and call it a day. If the dmv has an issue, show them this information, tell em to register it with the Japanese vin.

[TTkickedin]

Last edited by TTkickedin on Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:53 am, edited like 10 times in total.

^ There we go.

FIY this thread shouldn't completely focus on the R34. This should apply to all cars that pass on a NCAP test. Every single one of them should be legal, as long as it passes federal emissions laws as well.

F*ck california, you guys are screwed because you guys are your own country. FACT

[asoomal]

we know the Skyline does NOT conform to tests without being altered, and is thus, not legal for importation. If MotorEx hadn't essentially pointed this out to the government, it would be a different story.

Motorex didn't test the r34, so how would they know it needed to be altered to be road legal? Who says it isn't? Where is this information located that somebody crash tested a Nissan r34 and found it to not conform to US standards?

The information I found, however, proves otherwise and can be organized for the nay-sayers as such:

Fact 1: The IIHS uses the same standards as the ENCAP, JNCAP and ANCAP.

Fact 2: Any NCAP for that matter. proof: Daewoo Leganza tested by IIHS and ANCAP, scores similar. (note, that would be a POOR, and is still road legal)

Fact 3: The way it should work is, if a car scores at all on the safety test a poor or above, it should be legal in the US! There's cars that barely pass the IIHS standard, yet are road legal.

Fact 4: NOTE, r34 scores an EXCELLENT rating. And also note that with the proof above, the IIHS and JNCAP tests are very similar.

Fact 5: JNCAP cars are also proven to be road legal in the US. They don't even have to be a good rating either. Compare the stats for yourself. The prius? Only tested via the JNCAP yet is road legal here.


So now that we understand the above, the R34 was only tested by the JNCAP sooo...what's the issue again?

Oh wait, the RHD part (r33 is legal though, so scratch that) and emissions. throw 5 cats in the b**** and call it a day. If the dmv has an issue, show them this information, tell em to register it with the Japanese vin.

You can't just throw 4-5 cats in a car and expect it to pass...It doesn't work like that. There's a lot more to controlling emissions than an EGR and catalytic converters.

[TTkickedin]

Obviously. That was a exaggeration...

But, for the devil's advocates, here's the entire process to make an RB26dett pass emissions/SMOG:

Use 96 RON fuel for the emissions test (higher octane may lower emissions readings.) If the devil's advocates say "Oh? well the government says 96 ron isnt road legal.."
Follow the rest of the steps here.

Detune ecu to 91-93 octane. Run it as lean as possible without risking detonation.

- Make sure the lambda (oxygen) sensors are replaced with new units. If they're good, (at least on the r33 gtr,) it should pass. It's not like the RB26 is way off on emissions. Not much is needed to make them pass.

If it still doesn't pass though, (unlikely,) a smaller exhaust with two cats should clear up the issues. If not:

rb25-egr-smog-t396474.html

^ Most of the information can be carried over to the RB26 engine.

There's possibly more you could do, but that's for an individual/company to handle if one wants to import an r34.

Now can we get past that side and work towards the real issue as to why it's not legal? As far as I know right now, i have yet to see one good reason

[asoomal]

Cars that are turbocharged from the factory generally run pretty rich, if you run it that lean, NOx will skyrocket, the North American government is really anal about NOx emissions. Hence why we don't get all of those lean burn engines by Honda and Toyota.

What about excessive HC? The ones that get left over between the pistons and the cylinder walls, on top of the rings. Automobile manufacturers had to move the rings higher on the crown so it would burn most of the HC during the combustion process. Now, you can't really do that with the RB's, you'll end up with weaker ring lands.

[TTkickedin]

R32 and R33 has different oil pump, as in differences on the crank side and R34 has major change on the head in compareison to R33.

R33 rb26 is legal, so here's another step:

either swap r33 rb26dett into r34, or, swap heads.

[OriginalWheelman]

You keep saying "The R33 is legal!" Like you can just buy one and import it. I did an extensive amount of research when I was seriously considering purchasing an R33. The R33 requires extensive modifications to make it legal. The exact list of which is the intellectual property of the owner of the crash test data. The last time I looked into it, the owners of the data were the crash test company, who acquired the rights in the MotorEx legal fallout. As they are a crash test company they have no interest in converting and importing cars. I know this for a fact, as I personally spoke with them on the phone. I have since heard that the data was sold, but this is a rumor, and I have seen no proof. Furthermore, you are missing the point. The R34 and R32 are similar, but different. This has been proven through the investigation into MotorEx. From nuances such as adding emissions to the RB26, and adding lights and getting rid of the glass headlights, to structural modifications and alterations to the seat belts. Because the R32 and R34 have a lot of these flaws in common with the R33, they are known to not conform. While it must be possible to make these cars conform, they are in fact, significantly different than the R33 and require separate crash testing and separate determinations as to what needs to be modified. Since no one has followed the prescribed procedure of law to determine what those specific alterations are, the car can not be imported. I don't know how much clearer I can make it. If you want to import an R33, go buy the crash test data and the conformation specifications. They are a business, I'm sure they will sell you the rights to the information. But since that is most likely out of your reach, you'll sit here and make a list of reason why "the man" is sticking it to you, when the truth is, someone tried to cheat the system, failed, and opened the government's eyes to the situation.

You're using the fact that standards conform now as evidence that they conformed then. That is, if they even conform. Everything I read on them says that they are different.

http://www.globalncap.org/Documents/esv_brochure.pdf

"NCAP" is a generic term meaning New Car Assessment Program. The standards are similar, but all of the "NCAP"s are separate entities.

You're not proving your statement that the R34 passed J-NCAP. The site you link is less than a blog even, none of the links in it work, and it doesn't say where the data came from. In the first thing you linked, the Skyline isn't listed after 90. You haven't proved the argument you keep repeating.

[TTkickedin]

^ It's not an 'Argument" why does everyone get so defensive? I provided links that I thought were credible. So whatever, i'm not about to feed the argument. This will be here for the person who searches for it who can actually draw some conclusions from it, or find access to the correct information from it.

You keep saying.

you are missing the point.

You're not proving your statement

If you want to import an R33

But since that is most likely out of your reach

You're taking this thread way out of the context implied:

So this just might help somebody

Maybe somebody can make more sense out of these facts and figures than I could

I mentioned I was interested. I was providing my opinion for the other more financially fortunate folks who want to look into providing a similar Motorex service sometime using the data I found as a baseline to find other information...Did not mean to make you come up in here whaling a fit because you don't like the fact that enthusiasts like Japanese cars man.

From your first post, you've had nothing good to say about my persistence in trying to find the information. Even though it may be outdated, or may be non-credible information, it still acts as a gateway to the correct search terms, correct agencies to contact about this. Hell, I went out of my way to provide links about how to make an RB pass emissions just because someone mentioned its just THAT far off. Who says some new Nissan guy wants to buy an rb motor and swap it in but doesn't know how to make it pass emissions, they search for it they might find it right here when looking for "skyline" or something. IDK. Either way, try to see how this could potentially be helpful for those who want to START finding information then.