Cooling the Air in the Intake on a NA G-35 Coupe

[Jacko3]

How can the air going into the intake of the G-35 Coupe be cooled without using a alcohol or or any other chemical? I feel the intake is perfect with a JWT Pop Charger. But the air temperature going in could be improved. The way the car runs when it is receiving cool air is amazing. Its almost as if i don't want it to get warm anymore.

Is instaling an intercooler a good idea or is their another way to cool the air even further that is going through the intake?

Why is the whole front grille of a G-35 not a cooler and an air intake all at once? Why is the air intake in the engine bay where is sucks up heat?


Modified by Jacko3 at 7:36 PM 11/22/2008

[mrsmithGrider]

Jacko, I absolutely agree. It's funny cause I just came back from my friends house and its about 53 degrees outside and needless to say I had a little fun getting back home. I felt like my car had 20 extra ponies. The car felt really thrusty. I love it when i come out of a turn and it fish tails. Doesn't quite do that when its 90 degrees and very humid out like it is 95 percent of the time here in florida.

[Beancooker]

An intercooler (or in this case an interfooler) will give you TERRIBLE throttle lag. The air will have to be pulled through so much piping it's not feasible. You're better off spraying the plenum with CO2. It will cool the plenum and cool the air that passes through it. There are kits made for spraying your intake with CO2. IMHO, they're not worth the money.

When I set up a temp gauge on the intake and under hood, as well as outside the car, within 3 seconds of leaving a red light, the air in the intake was within 2-3 degrees of the ambient temp outside. This was tested using the JWT Pop Charger.

While sitting at the light the temps skyrocketed, but were back to normal almost immediately.

[Jacko3]

Beano:

So, what would you suggest besides alcohol or C02? I wonder why the air intake is not placed somewhere in front of the radiator such that it does not obstruct air flow into the radiator. I stood in front of my G in the garage for almost one hour looking at the engine bay and wondering why this is not possible, considering the possibility of rain getting into the air intake.

Beano, another option I see is to have a dual layer Z-tube----in between both layers a chemical pack that is reactive, which means as it gets hotter, it gets cooler, is placed in between that dual layer to cool the air before it gets into the plenum---a set of gel packs. However, this pack will need to be replaced every so often---like every 4 - 6 months. Think about the first aid cold pack. This approach leaves the current air intake set up as is.

Or, another option is to design a very small compressor to pump pure Nitrogen in small tubes in between the dual layer of the Z-tube so that it cools the air before it gets into the plenum. A seperate switch will have to be installed to turn the compressor on or off at the owner's desire. This leaves the current air intake set up as is. This process would be like flash cooling the air.

What do you think? I feel solving the air intake temperature problem for the G is a huge step in the right direction, and a very much needed modification for the G. The current system of heat shields can only go so far.

Modified by Jacko3 at 7:40 AM 11/23/2008
Modified by Jacko3 at 10:25 AM 11/23/2008

[Jacko3]

Thats right!

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

The G's were designed well and they cool off very quick.

But Jacko Think about it... Even with an inter cooler, You air will never be cooler than it is outside. You are not going to be running intake air at 80deg, when it is 95 ouside

DJ

[TeflonG35]

You are really over thinking the intake system. If you're going to go through all that trouble then you might as well just get Nitrous. More power that is actually proven.

[Jacko3]

TeflonG35:

The problem with nitrous is that I don't want anything but the regular gas to be combusted. My overthinking is actually to see if the air in the intake can be cooled to 40 - 60 degrees all the time. Are we saying now that this can't be done?

[Jacko3]

Tampa:

Thats exactly the point----how do we cool the air going into the intake so that the temperature remains between 40 - 60 degrees all the time. Of course, during winter, it will be cooler, which is a good thing. What then happens during summer? Are we to accept that there is nothing that can be done to keep air intake temperatures to a modest 40 - 60 degrees constantly?

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

I just look at winter as a fun time to drive and it is the only thing i look forward to in winter.

The Bad:cold sucks, got to buy presents, All the big meals to eat, Get fat, spending money and time change!

The Good:Cheap gas and Faster G

It is the only thing good about winter

DJ

[tollboothwilley]

normally gas is more expensive here...due to the formulations they tell me. I'm loving this gas price decrease!!

Jacko

I dont think you can lower air temperatures without spending a ton of money. Might as well go FI with lower boost.

[Jacko3]

tollboothwilley:

I feel $500 - $600 can get this done. I feel such a project is doable.

[SVTCOBRA]

Sorry, I keep seeing an ice tray strapped to the front of your G... Old school!

[Jacko3]

Thats right! Thats where I am headed. LOL!

[G_whizz]

Sorry, I keep seeing an ice tray strapped to the front of your G... Old school!

LOL.. poverty Turbo!!

Just like the old days in my appartment. No air con. instead a bucket of ice and a fan!!

[TeflonG35]

The logistics for your ideas aren't worth it in my eyes. If you want to spend that much you might as well just Get Nitrous.

[Sentientbydesign]

Jacko,

Check out motordyne's website. They sell an iso-thermal gasket that sits below the lower plenum and reduces plenum heat significantly.

An aftermarket plenum cover (think kinetix) will also keep intake charge temps lower (how much is questionable).

I'd be interested to see someone rig up an air conditioner setup to cool the intake.

I can see some serious draw backs, but I think it would be very interesting.

[Jacko3]

Nate:

Thanks for the idea!

[toddnos]

An aftermarket plenum cover (think kinetix) will also keep intake charge temps lower (how much is questionable).

i can drive 2 hours get out and put my hands on the kenetix upper plenum..the stock plenum would melt your hands to it..id say thats a great deal cooler than stock, therefore it would make sense that the air inside is cooler as well.

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

How much did that cost you toddnos?

DJ

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

Can everyone see Jacko with a wall mounted a/c unit on the front of his G for cooling the intake

[Sentientbydesign]

i can drive 2 hours get out and put my hands on the kenetix upper plenum..the stock plenum would melt your hands to it..id say thats a great deal cooler than stock, therefore it would make sense that the air inside is cooler as well.

I was actually thinking about what Noah said about the intake temp and ambient being very close because the air is moving pretty fast and doesn't have time to soak up much heat.

However, I also started thinking about the dyno day I went to and how I got better numbers when they watered down my plenum (between 1st and second baseline runs).

[toddnos]

How much did that cost you toddnos?

DJ

like 275 i think...

[DevonD]

What if you build some kind of ram air system? then at higher speeds the intercooler wouldnt be so much of an issue. and to deal with the throttle lag off of stop lights and stuff you installed a fan somewhere in the system? I know it sounds pretty ricey but I dont see why that couldnt work.the fan would actually build pressure. I guess it would just be one of those e-bay electric superchargers wouldnt it?

but the other thing would be do you think the intercooler would be doing that much cooling on a na car?

[toddnos]

a true cold air intake with the cone filter just behind the bottom of the bumper will help tremedously...

[Jacko3]

Can everyone see Jacko with a wall mounted a/c unit on the front of his G for cooling the intake

Very possible with Jacko.

[Jacko3]

What if the upper plenum is iscovered with a very durable plastic bag that holds alcohol, which is pumped into the bag and out of bag with a small pump from a discharge bottle that holds the alcohol ? It would look exactly like the alcohol charging system, however, the difference is that the alcohol is used to cool a metal z-tube (first stage) and and the surface of an aluminium upper plenum (second stage) all at once. This should provide better colling than any isothermal system. Alcohol is an excellent dissipator of heat so long as it has room to expand and contract, upon its return ot that bottle. So, a compressor may not really be necessarily. So in hot weathers, a switch in the car can be activated to cool the air that is already passing throgh the intake system. Does anyone know how cool alcohol feels when it is in contact with the skin? Thats exactly the point I am making here.

[Sentientbydesign]

I'm going to dissect your proposition...

First off, the isothermal gasket limits the amount of heat that transfers (via metal to metal contact) from the block to the lower plenum.

So we're not talking about engine compartment heat soak, we're talking about engine block heat transfer.

Second, the reason the alcohol feels cool on your skin is because it's absorbing kinetic (atomic level) energy and coverting into a gas.

A water or water/alcohol cooling aparatus could be rigged up to extract heat in two ways. The easier, less involved method would be to create a large scale water cooling system in the same fashion that is used with PC cooling.

This involves a liquid being passed over the heat source to absorb the heat and dissipate it at a radiator (obviously a secondary radiator). Piping and a water pump will be needed and grooves in the plenum would probably yield the best heat transfer (think of a heatsink).

The second method of utilizing water or alcohol would be to have an air conditioning setup where the liquid absorbs head, and is then cooled, condensed and compressed (in some order I can't remember right now).

I don't see there being enough room for the second option.

Also, the z-tube (original) is made of ABS or some similar type of plastic. It doesn't retain or transmit heat well and as such, cooling it would theoretically yield minimal results.

[Jacko3]

Nate:

I love your response. I am very pleased with it. We are making progress so long as we keep this discussion going because I beleive it is the first step in solving the air intake heat issue the G has. Well done!

You said, "A water or water/alcohol cooling aparatus could be rigged up to extract heat in two ways. The easier, less involved method would be to create a large scale water cooling system in the same fashion that is used with PC cooling.

This involves a liquid being passed over the heat source to absorb the heat and dissipate it at a radiator (obviously a secondary radiator). Piping and a water pump will be needed and grooves in the plenum would probably yield the best heat transfer (think of a heatsink)."

Exactly what i was thinking. I forgot to add the radiator. I don't see how this set up cannot be created easily for the G with the exception of the grooves in the plenum. I agree completely in using a water alcohol system since using pure alcohol would require a compressor--additional equipment, to bring it back to a liquid state. Water in the alcohol micture reduces or eliminates the need for a compressor.

Now, the radiator which will generally be a small one can be carefully placed in the space near the front bottom end of the G where a true cold air intake is usually placed close to the bottom of the front grille to your right. I beleive this system wil fit just fine, produce more power without adding anything into the engine. In addition, the Z-tube will have to be replace with a metal Z-tube for better heat transfer.

Anyway, excellent job, Nate. That hard-working mind of yours needs a challenge all the time, eh?

[toddnos]

a hood scoop that directs air into a "plenum box"

simple>complex