Cooling the Air in the Intake on a NA G-35 Coupe

[Jacko3]

Sounds interesting. What happens when the car is in traffic---not moving, and the engine is generating all this heat that is being drawn into the air intake? What do you think and how do you solve that problem?

[Jacko3]

Nate:

In essence, an existing water-alchol set up could be rigged as is, to partially create th system we jusy discussed. The other issue is cost. Will the system provide the type of air intake cooling and increased performance to justify its purchase, especially during summer periods? Is there a way to eliminate the radiator portion of the construction or fabricate a small multi-tubular aluminium radiator for less than $50? This radiator will be connected to the return portion of the fluid as it goes back into its ocntainer.

[toddnos]

Sounds interesting. What happens when the car is in traffic---not moving, and the engine is generating all this heat that is being drawn into the air intake? What do you think and how do you solve that problem?

i would rely on improving the existing radiator system..possibley upgrade the t-stat, and use water wetter. But generally im not looking for performance while stuck in traffic. a pluggable scoop that directs air onto the top of the plenum when on the move could really reduce intake temps IMO. or maybe a dry ice box built on top of the plenum...

[awdjdmtalon]

There is a company that makes a kit to do just what you are aking about. I wish I could remember the name. But is an aluminum box that has a pipe passing through it. The box is welded to the pipe w/ a removable top. You pack the space in the box around the tube w/ dry ice. As the air passes throught the tube it is super cooled by the dry ice.

The best placement for this would be before the mas air flow meter, so that it reads the actuall temp of the air being drawn into the eng. If you put the box/tube after the MAF the computer will be correcting fuel for the wrong temps.

I have looked into making one myself, and the cost of material wasn't that much. You just need to find someone who can TIG weld it together for you.

And you only want to run dry ice in it. You don;t want to have water sloshing around in the box, or have the risk of a pin hole in a wled allowing water to get sucked on the intake. Plus dry ice is much colder. Granted you will have to pay for it, but it is fairly cheap. And most grocery stores carry it.

[Jacko3]

i would rely on improving the existing radiator system..possibley upgrade the t-stat, and use water wetter. But generally im not looking for performance while stuck in traffic. a pluggable scoop that directs air onto the top of the plenum when on the move could really reduce intake temps IMO. or maybe a dry ice box built on top of the plenum...

Hahahahah! You thought you were being funny, and yet you were providing a real workable solution to a real problem (see awjdmtalon's comments). I like that mind of yours.

I love this bunny

[Sentientbydesign]

Jacko,

I wouldn't go without the radiator, if you do, it's just going to move around warm water. Also consider that you need a water pump that can handle 150-200 degree (guesstimate) water.

[Jacko3]

With those temperatures, i would agree.

[tollboothwilley]

you've heard of meth injection haven't you?

doesn't this do what you are looking for ?

[Jacko3]

Yes, I have heard of meth injection and I haven't heard many good things about it as it relates to the effect it has on the internals. So, I am avoiding introducing anything other than pure high quality gasoline into the car's engine.

[Beancooker]

You won't gain anything by injecting alcohol, unless you are running forced induction. /discussion.

For what you want to achieve, you should look at getting a custom intake tube made. You would want it all welded with a MAF hole and screw sets for the MAF element, but eliminate the plastic MAF housing.

Take the custom tube, and coat it in a heat resistant ceramic.

Take the coated tube, and wrap it with header wrap.

Take that and put a reflective heat shield wrap around that.

Header wrap

Reflective heat shield wrap

[fbpem1]

i have been out of town for a bit so my lull in the posting department is attributed to that.

Now first off to your thing beancooker, header wrap and ceremaic coating bad, one or the other it will rub it off. watched it happen on something i tried years ago.

If your going to with a ceramic coating dont go with jethot its junk. I will ask a friend the name of the GOOD company who's coatings actually work won't fade, brown, or flake off over the years, its been tried and true and has been passed from f1 technology.

Cooler air basically the ONLY thing you can do on the stret would be a cold air box.

The dry ice thing is stupid IMO unless its a track only type of thing but then you have to pass tech with it if you have a small leak in it guess what nope not running it, seems like a water/air intercooler idea branched out for all motor, ehh to much time for minimal gain if none 5whp isn't something you can feel.

Now ram air type systems do work i have made a few for various cars, but agian minimal gains precarious filter posistion.

About the isothermal spacer, its nothing more than a plastic gasket for these cars (correct me if i'm wrong but i think i'm right), that does work although dosn't that perticular one sit between the upper and lower plenum?

what good does that do? if you do that you want it sitting on each bank in the valley for optimum gains. Forgive me but i will mention my old honda's and hondata gaskets that sit on the head and seperate the intake manifold from the head with a xx amount of clearance and those DO work. The ones i have seen installed on these cars would not really work becuase the heads are still soaking the lower plenum with heat, granted the air up untill then is "cooler" but then get blasted with the heat right at the lower plenum thus null and voiding any gain you got from that 20 minutes worth of work and how ever much money it is.

Long and short is throttle responce maybe a little, real horsepower you can feel nope sorry, nothing is going to be felt by the minimal gains that intakes get on these motors. Now the HR is a differant animal all together its a better motor through and through.

THis is experiance talking i have installed intakes, intake manifolds, spacers, blah blah blah, and i wasn't impressed just made more noise and gave the illusion of a gain. As always long winded post lots of spelling and gramical errors oh well you get the point

[Sentientbydesign]

The one I mentioned goes between the lower plenum and the "intake manifold"(?). That short piece that separates the head from the lower plenum.

A friend of mine says that the upper plenum goes from scorching (untouchably) hot to warm with that gasket. I can't speak about it because I don't have one. I do know that the plenum does heat up a lot though.

Btw, is there any feasible way to mount the HR motor on the DE? It's moreso curiousity than me actually wanting to do this.

[fbpem1]

upper plenum was not my problem the lower plenum is. lower plenum is un touched in that its only the upper, which means once air hits the lower plenum any thing it did is voided out getting there.

[Sentientbydesign]

I think we're missing each other's point.

The lower Iso-thermal gasket sits below the lower plenum. It prevents (some?) heat soak from the heads to the plenum (both upper and lower).

The comment about my friend touching the upper plenum is to say that the entire thing got cooler. Most people won't reach below to touch the lower plenum.

[fbpem1]

dosn't matter what the upper plenum does if the lower is still hot what does it matter. it dosn't you want to stop heat transfer from the heads to the lower plenum if your not doing that your just wasting money.

[Sentientbydesign]

Wake up! If my blox spacer which is an iso-thermal polymer that sits between the upper and lower plenum doesn't reduce the heat of the upper plenum, but the iso-thermal gasket that sits between the heads and the lower plenum reduces the heat of the upper plenum, wouldn't it be logical to say that the gasket ALSO lowers the heat of the lower plenum?

Connect the dots.

[Jacko3]

fbpem1 and Nate:

I love the debate. I like it. best ideas come from debate. Well done to both of you. So, what both of you are saying in essence is that our Gs need a lower plenum isothermal gasket to help reduce the heat coming from the engine heads soaking its way in to the rest of the plenum. I think I am beginning to like this approach.

I love this bunny

[fbpem1]

well heres the thing i have seen i have NOT seen anything that goes to the head anywhere since it is TWO gaskets not ONE i am going with my original argument. so that is all, show me where there are the gaskets that go to the head and i'll conciede i looked on the motordyne site saw nothing only the gasket that goes from the lowerplenum to the lower upper plenum. oh well, there are two gaskets there and the lower plenum and the fuel rail must be removed to install it so show it to me on the motordyne site, i can't seem to find it maybe i'm blind or maybe your wrong lets see....

[Sentientbydesign]

350Z Aramid Gasket

The Iso Thermal™ Aramid gasket is installed beneath the lower plenum to block heat transfer from the lower manifold into the lower and upper plenum assemblies. Heat transfer is significantly reduced and both the upper and lower plenum assembly operates at a much lower temperature.

That is what I was talking about.

[fbpem1]

they are calling the lower part of the upper plenum the lower plenum thats not the gasket that bolts to the block beneath the lower plenum and fuel rail accoring to the picture that is provided of the product.

[SteveTheTech]

This is an interesting debate. Thumbs up to creativity. I was thinking using compressed Hydrogen to not only cool the intake but at the end it could be injected into the airstream. Roffle, the possibilities, Think about it you could tell people your car has the same type of injection as a space ship...

The pictures above show the position of the gasket that was mentioned above. If there were one from the head to the lower plenum maybe there would be some benefit but since there is so much thermal energy available there that any gain would be lost to radiant heat exchange.

[Jacko3]

Steve:

Nice job! Excellent. I started this debate to spur our creativity as i felt that we could come up ingenious ways to solve the intake heat soak problem. This is something i do a lot where i work and with friends around me. And I have faith we are going to come up with a solution at the end of the day. Thanks for the pics.

[Beancooker]

I was thinking using compressed Hydrogen to not only cool the intake but at the end it could be injected into the airstream. Roffle, the possibilities, Think about it you could tell people your car has the same type of injection as a space ship...

If you're going to go that far, just suppliment the fuel with ammonium perchlorate. Pound for pound, nothing else gives off more energy other than a nuclear reaction.

To see ammonium perchlorate explode in all it's glory, google "Pepcon".

[tollboothwilley]

why not just build the engine while you're down in there?

the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but while you're there... you might as well change out the exhaust, service the differential, install new suspension, better tires etc