Cheap block build up...

[I am Technoman]

Building up a KA block can be done cheap and I cannot guess how much boost this build up could handle so I say try it and email me. You could buy new stock pistons have them milled down to 8.5 or what ever compression you like and use them with crome rings to take the heat and that would be a stong motor that could hold 15 psi with no problem. this mod would only cost a tuner around 800 bucks verses 2000 to use after market internals. Doing it this way allows for extra money to have the crank balanced head cleaned & polished and so on.

[cow]

I don't know if you could mill the piston down that much, you'd have to check the thickness first. You don't want it to get paper thin in the middle. However I have considered this option myself (milling the stock pistons down). As far as chrome rings, is heat dissipation why they're considered better? I've seen several posts saying that 99 altima chrome rings are considered best but no reason why.

Sounds like a good plan though. :p

[SingleCamSam]

Why not just buy a rebuild kit from flatlander for $400? KA's compression isn't TOO high.

[TomsMR2]

id feel safe turbo'ing up to 9.5:1 comp. rating.. you dont *need* 8.5:1 for a turbo, especially if you're running low boost.

remember... compression = power.

[cow]

Heh. Some people think 9.5 is high apparently. I disagree.. but then I'm used to seeing turbo hondas with 10.6 compression ;D

[I am Technoman]

I think 9.1 would be nice.

[TomsMR2]

i think 9:1 is ideal.. not too low, not too high. im pretty sure compression helps spoolup time.

[McAdam]

turbo and high compression are not a good combination, well, unless you are keeping the boost relatively low. a lot ofthose honda motors running the HI compression numbers also have V-tec, which lowers the dynamic comporession because of camshaft overlap. wayyyy too many factors to consider, I would say keep compression around 8.5:1 when you have boost on the brain. for a cheap-o option I beleive nissan Z24E truck pistons have a dish in them and they will fit in a KA block, same bore, same pin height.

McAdam

edit: compression doesnt help spool up time, it just makes it less noticible. Your engine isn't movine any more air with a higher compression, but it does produce more HP in the lower rev range; therefore it doesn't feel as "boggy" when your not running on boost

[lurks]

10:1 is fine if the fuel system and management is there. Intercooled, extra injectors, high octane, timing management, monitor egt's and a/f with wideband and shut it down if it doesn't look right. I have hit 19 psi on 10:1 in the Lexus. Solid.

[Jays90240SX]

Well, the stock pistons are 8.6:1, so maybe just milling them down a bit, I took my block apart today, and noticed some stamped markings on the pistons, could be a hot spot for Deto, I bet just polishing that off would work.

I am debating this now myself, I have a spare motor, I want to build up, but I don't want to spend too much, I rather spend a little less on the block, and get a Standalone, which I am getting.

I was going to use stock rods and get the race preped and just get pistons, but if the stock pistons would work, I rather use those since I have some already! I would get them checked over at the machine shop though.

[WDRacing]

If I was building a motor meant for boost(20+psi) I would run 9.0/1 or under. But if my goals kept the car to 15psi or less, 10 would work, but most people don't have the skills or money to spend on the dyno making an engine reliably run anywhere near 15psi with anything over 9.5/1 CR.

Not to mention the crap fuel in the states makes it very hard to run high boost. Thank god for alcohol...

WD

[McAdam]

OOoo!! good idea!

have yoru pistons ceramic coated on the tops, molybidium coated on teh skirts! places will do it for like $30 a piston, total. then have your rods an' pistons cryogenically treated, for like $8 a shot. total would be like under $200 and the advantages are numerous. cryo benefits and info ceramic info

have fun

McAdam

[I am Technoman]

Damn good thread! The stock KADE pistons are dished and have a “low spot” in the center of the crown. This low spot is the key to lowering the compression. Let’s say the low spot is 10 millimeters wide and you had a machinist open the low spot by milling it out wider not lower so the low spot is now 14 millimeters wide. In theory you would have lower compression piston with out lowering the dish.

[Red Lightning]

If the pistons are cryo treated, would it be more britle? Does cryo treatment actually make parts stronger?

[sil80drifter]

go to the website listed above, read up the info.

sil80

[Jays90240SX]

So you guys think just getting the stock pistons from the KA24E (8.6:1) machined/treated would be good enough for like 300whp?

[I am Technoman]

So you guys think just getting the stock pistons from the KA24E (8.6:1) machined/treated would be good enough for like 300whp?

A truck piston that’s 8.6 in a KADE will give you 11.1. You would need to mill more of the crown of this piston than a stock KADE piston. I say use the stock KADE piston and have the low spot widened.

[Jays90240SX]

A truck piston that’s 8.6 in a KADE will give you 11.1. You would need to mill more of the crown of this piston than a stock KADE piston. I say use the stock KADE piston and have the low spot widened.

Umm, I mean in the SOHC motor, using the SOHC 8.6:1 pistons.

[I am Technoman]

Yea in a KAE that sounds fine.

[Projex240]

As far as the cryogenice go, do whatever works...but as far as nilling the psiton itslef down...id ont think that would do anything but compromise the integrity of the pistons design. To lower compression in the combustion chamber just use a thicker head gasket...the sr boys do it all the time. Look ta it like this...You spend all the time and money to have these things coated and treated that costs you like 60 bucks to 80 bucks per piston. And in the end you have an experimental setup that could end up in disaster and costing you alot more money. Just go with pistons that are forged and proven to stand up to boost...wiseco makes psitons that retain 9:1 comp and are only 400 bucks. Check out http://WWW.raceeng.com Anyway..its not worth the time and money to try something out that is more or less hacked like milling your pistons.

[sil80drifter]

I am going to go with the cryogenic attempt later on this summer, and I am really hoping it will be the "cheap mans' forged internals" way of being able to handle more boost without having to get forged internals for a price that is currently not attainable in my wildest dreams. I figure it would take about 200 bucks to cryo treat the bottom end and the top end, which is really good if it holds up to expectations. I knwo my friends cryo treated rotors have lasted him longer than any other rotors ever have, so I think there is something to be said about cryo treatment effectiveness. When I get done with my setup, I'll let you guys know.

sil80

[sil80drifter]

actually, screw it, I wanna see how far the KA SOHC will go on stock internals, with me trying to tune it as best I can. The only thing i'll be doing is porting/polishing my head. maybe i'll cryo treat my shiftknob for more smoothness... LOL sil80

[Jays90240SX]

actually, screw it, I wanna see how far the KA SOHC will go on stock internals, with me trying to tune it as best I can. The only thing i'll be doing is porting/polishing my head. maybe i'll cryo treat my shiftknob for more smoothness... LOL sil80

I'll be trying the same thing!

I have a BONE STOCK KAE in the car right now, I'll maybe take the secondary butterflies out and port the intake manifold.

Are you going to leave it stock head gasket too? Are you rebuilding it to factory specs or just using a motor?

I was thinking of using 2 head gaskets on the stock bottom end, not too sure though.

[Pornflakes]

$489 for a set of Ross forged pistons isn't that steep at all... And it will handle all the fun your little heart may want to throw at it. Really, it's a small price to pay for what you're getting. I mean, boost is not for the faint of wallet anyway...

[sil80drifter]

jay, i have a stock KA-E in the car, and a 70k KA-E outside the car, which i will be just reassembling into its stock form and then just swapping it in, so that I have an engine that I know will run, if the turbo one blows, and so that the turbo engien won't be a 120k mile tired block. I'll be reassembling the 70k one with a ported/polished head and removed secondary butterflies, and some kind of quick EGR/AIV disconnect option, so that I can still pass emissions. I'll make a midpipe, so that I can alway replace the cat back on, for the same emissiosn purpose. I can't afford to rebuild the engine to stock specs (I'm assuming you're talking boring, etc and maybe brand new lifters/rockers/valves, etc), all I'm doing is reassembly, because it's not completely complete (need lots of nuts/bolts and a water pump/maybe oil pump too). I will be running stock head gasket, since people say they hold up to boost well, unless I can find a 1mm steel one for same price as stock.I didn't know you could just put two headgaskets together, and also why would you? I assume it would lower compression, and I don't think going under 8.6:1 is useful in any way, even if it will allow you to boost maybe 1-2 more pounds. But if it's worth it for you, then go for it, maybe it'll work out better than I imagine.I'm always happy when I come across fellow KA-ET-ers, cuz there are so few of us compared to SR and even KA-DET guys. In fact someone made a remark about the uselessness of turboing an SOHC "crude truck" motor to me today, and I was too happy to tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine, because an SR does not make him god. *venting* People who don't put their own engines in/don't ever really work on their cars and let others do their work, and who don't know much about them, should not be opening their mouths too much. Imagine someone beating the crap out of their car WHILE it's still cold (just gets into the car and guns it every time) and then tries to tell you how his knowledge of engines/mechanics allows him to say what engine is good or not. Oh brother. Anyway (sorry, way off topic), good luck to you Jay, and if u wanna gimme ur AIM sn, we can swap KA-ET info whenever we come across any.

sil80

[Jays90240SX]

You are right about the Head gasket, don't really make sense.

I think what I will do is just get new 8.6:1 pistons (Depending on price I might just get Wiseco or something), mine out of the spare motor are scored pretty bad on the side. I might get them coated, we'll see.

Get the block honed, new bearings, race prep the rods, get new rod and head bolts.

Pretty much a "budget" rebuild.

I know what you mean about the "other" type of guys, they get the cars built for them, and think they know everything, and shoot their mouths, I just laugh!

What will you be using for fuel management? I already have the Walbro 255 in the tank, not sure on what to use, FMU, SAFC, Standalone, Piggy Back?

I have MSN ([email protected]), Yahoo messenger ([email protected]) and ICQ but don't have the UIN handy. Nobody here really seems to use AIM, but it looks like it's pretty popular in the US?

[sil80drifter]

oh! does your car run richer now that u have a higher flow fuel pump? that's the only reason I am not getting it before I get SAFC, cuz i think the injectors will be dumping more fuel (more pressure under same pulse width = rich condition). I will be using SAFCII, as far as I can tell for now. Can't afford standalone, unless that one for 300 bucks in another post is actually workable by a newb like me.

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....50958

How will you "race prep" the rods? As far as I know they are shotpeened from factory, so I'm not sure what else you can do to them besides cryo treat them. Also where will u order the new head bolts and rod bearings, and will u be going ARP or not?Yeah, I know a few canadians (actually just one, and she moved to greece) and they use ICQ. I have ICQ somewhere... so if u find the UIN we'll figure out a way to get it working.

sil80

[Jays90240SX]

That Techtonics I got some info from them, it's basically just a ECU upgrade like the JWT, but only for 295$, I am getting MORE info but looks like it's not user tunable.

The other thing I am looking at is the Perfect Power SMT6 http://www.perfectpower.com/products/smt6.asp It's a piggy back, pretty much the same price as the SAFCII, but it can do everything, fuel, timing and such. ONce you get a MSD boost retard with the SAFCII it becomes quite costly, I rather have 1 system that can do the job.

Race prepping the rods is just polishing them, removing the edges and all that, making them smooth, they do that alot on engine buildups around here.

I can't wait to get this started! Took all the final things off my block before diner, so I will be starting in a week or 2 to gather all the parts.

I will just get new hardware from Nissan for the rod bolts and head bolts, I rather use new bolts to make sure they are strong and even. Bearings I will see if the machine shop can measure bearings that I will need and then order it through them, probably clevite bearings.

UIN for ICQ is 96508388

[Jays90240SX]

And, the car doesn't run richer no with the Walbro, I had the pump and was going to wait, but then my stock one died, I put it in and no probs, from what I can tell with gas mileage and my A/F gauge as well.

[sil80drifter]

cool, thanx for info

I have loked at perfectpower, and i am considering it as well, but back when i looked at it like a year ago, it seemed unreasonably difficult to tune. now I look, and it seems ok. obviously few things are as easy as the SAFC tune method, but it's nowhere near as functional as the techtonics or perfectpower.I'm glad to hear that about the fuel pump, this means i'll be getting mine sometime soon

sil80