CHATROOM: Engine Air Filter (K&N vs OEM vs Aftermarket)

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Rogue One » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:44 pm

Black B15 wrote:I am running the K&N panel filter in my car as well, no issues or problems. The biggest problem most people have is severely OVER oiling the filter and the MAF sensor doesn't like that so much.

If you maintain it correctly, meaning cleaned and oiled properly, a cotton media filter like K&N will last damn near forever.

It is easily worth the $50 or so. You can get a "recharge" kit which is a can of filter oil and a can of cleaning agent for around $20 or so and like ImStricken said that will last you quite a long time.
Sorry, gonna have to call BS on the lasting nearly forever. Maybe physically, but I really can't expect any filter to retain 100% effectiveness after 100,000 miles, if that's what you ment.

I don't know if the implication is intended, but the impression I'm getting from the K&N fanbois is that with regular cleaning/oiling, these filters will perform like new no matter how many times they're resued. Seriously? :wtf2:


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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:20 am

Rogue One wrote:I really can't expect any filter to retain 100% effectiveness after 100,000 miles, if that's what you ment.
your only really supposed to wash the K&N filter every 50,000 miles depending on visual inspection based upon the type of driving you do (ie; off-road, dusty area's, etc = more frequent washing). You can see the way the filter is made, that its not a crappy product.
Its cotton layers (i think they said 6, not sure) thats sandwiched between a metal mesh kinda like window screen type, and the rubber trim is then sandwiched to the cotton and metal mesh via a silicone type of product. thats versus standard filters that are paper & glue that will deform with moisture. (the paper & glue disposable filters i can see not lasting 1,000,000 miles and turning to junk)


i saw a video of the filter that was used for 1,000,000 miles = the pleats in the filter were not even bent or out of shape. it was just dirty lol
THIS IS THE EXACT 1,000,000 FILTER RIGHT HERE
Image

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Black B15 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:40 am

Rogue One wrote:
Black B15 wrote:I am running the K&N panel filter in my car as well, no issues or problems. The biggest problem most people have is severely OVER oiling the filter and the MAF sensor doesn't like that so much.

If you maintain it correctly, meaning cleaned and oiled properly, a cotton media filter like K&N will last damn near forever.

It is easily worth the $50 or so. You can get a "recharge" kit which is a can of filter oil and a can of cleaning agent for around $20 or so and like ImStricken said that will last you quite a long time.
Sorry, gonna have to call BS on the lasting nearly forever. Maybe physically, but I really can't expect any filter to retain 100% effectiveness after 100,000 miles, if that's what you ment.

I don't know if the implication is intended, but the impression I'm getting from the K&N fanbois is that with regular cleaning/oiling, these filters will perform like new no matter how many times they're resued. Seriously? :wtf2:
You can call whatever you want on this one, doesn't much matter to me. What I can PERSONALLY tell you is that I ran a K&N filter on my sentra for almost 5 years, approximately 150,000 miles. YES...if you clean it correctly and oil it correctly it will function virtually as well as a brand new K&N filter....which is still better filtering and CFM than an OEM filter.

When you have a t-shirt do you just wear it for 10 months than throw it away? No of course not...if it is washed and cared for correctly that cotton shirt can look great for years. The cotton media filter that K&N and others make could (if cared for correctly) last for years and maintain almost the exact same performance.

Lastly, just because I like K&N doesn't make me a "fanboi". I like drinking water too....I guess I am a water fanboi. Drink up! :spitout:

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Rogue One » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:59 pm

ISO 5011 Test: http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
"This report presents the results of an ISO 5011 test of several air filters designed for the GM Duramax Diesel. The test was independently performed under controlled conditions using a $285,000 machine at Testand Corp of Rhode Island (manufacturer of the machine)."

"However, if a filter is using "better airflow" as their marketing tool, remember this….Does it flow better? At very high airflow volumes, probably. BUT, our engines CAN’T flow that much air unless super-modified, so what is the point? The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give."

"In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons."

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:58 am

Just got mine last night! And i can hear that tiny whistle sound they are known for. and when i stomp on the throttle quickly you can hear the suction much louder.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Rogue One » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:11 am

ImStricken wrote:Just got mine last night! And i can hear that tiny whistle sound they are known for. and when i stomp on the throttle quickly you can hear the suction much louder.
That sucking noise is the sound of money leaving your wallet. :lolling:

All kidding aside ImStricken, I've come to respect your opinon/experience. Can you take some time out of your busy schedule and keep a log with details as to performance, etc. with the new filter? Often what gets reported is little more than the placebo effect. Inquiring minds want to know.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:24 am

"That sucking noise is the sound of money leaving your wallet."
LOL thats funny - well played sir! :)

And dont worry, any issues - and i certainly will be posting warnings.
but as a K&N user in multiple vehicles, i dont expect any negatives, and certainly no performance upgrades that i can feel. it will just save me money after 30,000 or so miles. after that the filter paid for itself.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby nitsudima » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:59 am

Jumping back to the discussion about MAF sensors, the last time I was at the dealer they told me I needed to change my air filter. They were more than happy to do it for $25, and when I told them I'd do it myself the service tech launched into a story about how aftermarket filters can and will cause MAF failures. He asked his co-worker to corroborate, and of course he had a story of a few he had replaced just recently due to aftermarket air filters. They then told me how expensive it is to replace the MAF and again encouraged me to let them change the filter.

My BS meter was registering pretty high by that point, so I declined and bought a filter for $12 on my way home. I wonder if MAF replacement is the add-on service of choice at dealers, sort of like PCV valves and windshield wipers at oil change shops.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:20 am

nitsudima wrote:Jumping back to the discussion about MAF sensors, the last time I was at the dealer they told me I needed to change my air filter. They were more than happy to do it for $25, and when I told them I'd do it myself the service tech launched into a story about how aftermarket filters can and will cause MAF failures. He asked his co-worker to corroborate, and of course he had a story of a few he had replaced just recently due to aftermarket air filters. They then told me how expensive it is to replace the MAF and again encouraged me to let them change the filter.

My BS meter was registering pretty high by that point, so I declined and bought a filter for $12 on my way home. I wonder if MAF replacement is the add-on service of choice at dealers, sort of like PCV valves and windshield wipers at oil change shops.
there are a million different parts to replace as a "add-on" service. mechanics, and service advisers can clearly see who they are dealing with, and certainly can and will take full advantage. Very often the more a service adviser sells, the more commission he makes, as well as the mechanic. Hence why no one minds doing a "multi-point inspection". The more they find, the more thats in their pocket.

I fully understand how MAF sensors can be damaged. dirt, grime, debris, oil vapors. but at the end of the day - many MAF sensors destroy themselves by leaking their own silicone out from the heat. And i am fully aware of how engines work, and that crankcase oily vapors MUST be removed (otherwise the pressure would build and the engine would explode) - and were does that crank case vapors go? back into the intake for the engine to burn off. and that process is what causes the MAF sensor to clog up with oil deposits. This happens EVERY time the engine is shut off. the vapors are released into the intake, and with no where to go since the engine is not sucking in air anymore, the vapors are released to the opposite side which happens to be traveling through the MAF sensor up the filter in the reverse order, and into the atmosphere.

THESE DEALERS AND THEIR K&N / AFTERMARKET FILTER SCARE ARE NOTHING BUT SCAMMERS.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Jostudly » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:36 pm

I installed my new K/N filter today. Just want to make sure do they already come pre-oiled or do I need to oil it for the 1st time?

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:45 pm

they come pre-oiled.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Jostudly » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:12 pm

thanks that's what I thought

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:11 pm

Rogue One wrote:All kidding aside ImStricken, I've come to respect your opinon/experience. Can you take some time out of your busy schedule and keep a log with details as to performance, etc. with the new filter?
Hey buddy, i just want to keep you in touch/up to date and report that so far no adverse effects. :)

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Rogue One » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:22 pm

ImStricken wrote:
Rogue One wrote:All kidding aside ImStricken, I've come to respect your opinon/experience. Can you take some time out of your busy schedule and keep a log with details as to performance, etc. with the new filter?
Hey buddy, i just want to keep you in touch/up to date and report that so far no adverse effects. :)
Good to hear! :mike Ok, so no adverse effects... any positive?

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:29 am

Rogue One wrote:Good to hear! :mike Ok, so no adverse effects... any positive?
yep, never have to buy another filter lol

(i also have 2 k&n filters in my g37, and also no negative news to report. i just check them every now & then, and re-install)

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby darylzero » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:52 pm

I've had the K&N filter for about 1 year without a problem.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Jostudly » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:29 am

Thanks for the updates. Had mine for about 1 month now and working fine.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby JMed » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:33 am

Just got mine recently, I just have to installed it...

Image

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Mine came with only one sticker :bs:

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby JMed » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:41 pm

When I was installing my K & N filter I noticed that it didn't property stay in the filter case like my old purolator filter did. It was kinda lose...

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:51 pm

JMed wrote:When I was installing my K & N filter I noticed that it didn't property stay in the filter case like my old purolator filter did. It was kinda lose...
strange, mine is a really right fit. did you compare the two filters to see and make sure they sent you the correct one?

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Black B15 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:40 pm

JMed wrote:When I was installing my K & N filter I noticed that it didn't property stay in the filter case like my old purolator filter did. It was kinda lose...
Mine was the same way. I should clarify what I mean...the stock filter was TIGHT in that little filter tray thingy. When I took the stocker out and installed the K&N, it wasn't really super tight like the stock one was. It fit perfectly, and works great.....but if I held the stock filter and tray upside down the filter would stay in....if I hold the K&N one w/tray upside down the K&N one will fall straight out. While it still fit perfectly into the tray thing, it was just a slight bit more loose than the stock one.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby JMed » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:27 pm

Black B15 wrote:
JMed wrote:When I was installing my K & N filter I noticed that it didn't property stay in the filter case like my old purolator filter did. It was kinda lose...
Mine was the same way. I should clarify what I mean...the stock filter was TIGHT in that little filter tray thingy. When I took the stocker out and installed the K&N, it wasn't really super tight like the stock one was. It fit perfectly, and works great.....but if I held the stock filter and tray upside down the filter would stay in....if I hold the K&N one w/tray upside down the K&N one will fall straight out. While it still fit perfectly into the tray thing, it was just a slight bit more loose than the stock one.
Yup! Exactly what mine does...

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby darylzero » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:29 pm

^^ that is because the K&N filter weighs more.

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Air filter dirt/oil

Postby ras_oscar » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:40 am

I have a 2012 rogue with 30,000 miles. I took a peek at the air filter yesterday ( which is the factory original) and was concerned to see that it had dirt and oil ( similar to the color of engine dirt) on the engine side of the filter. Its the original filter, so I will stop by the parts store for a replacement today. What should I be looking at to find the source of the oily dirt? i am used to seeing gray dirt on the intake side, but not on the engine side.

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Re: Air filter dirt/oil

Postby ImStricken06 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:04 am

not a single engine out there, wont have some amounts of exploded air/fuel mixture not escape past the piston rings. its called blow-by gasses. its normal. that goes past the piston rings, and into your crank case. along with blow-by gasses, engines create a lot of mist amongst the engine oil. the blow-by gasses along with the oil mist elevates the pressures inside the engine. so in order to not explode the engine, that misty pressure is vented into a system called the PCV(Positive crankcase ventilation) system. that oily mist is then recirculated back into your intake system, and to be burned off in the engine with the air/fuel ratio.

when you turn your engine off, you get reverse pressure in your intake, where the oily mist will exit OUT of the air intake tube. that oily mist then creates the dirty spot you see on your intake filter (engine side).

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOUR THROTTLE PLATE, AIT SENSOR, and MAF SENSORS NEED CLEANING EVERY NOW & THEN.

CAN YOU POST A PIC OF THIS FILTER?

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Re: Air filter dirt/oil

Postby ras_oscar » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:49 am

I will post a pic of the old filter before I toss it. Never saw this on my 2005 Altima. Perhaps the Rogue has the filter in a different orientation.

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Re: Air filter dirt/oil

Postby ImStricken06 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:56 am

ras_oscar wrote:I will post a pic of the old filter before I toss it. Never saw this on my 2005 Altima. Perhaps the Rogue has the filter in a different orientation.
it depends how they routed the PCV system. some bypass the throttle plate, some dont.

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Re: Air filter dirt/oil

Postby Rogue One » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:09 pm

ImStricken wrote:not a single engine out there, wont have some amounts of exploded air/fuel mixture not escape past the piston rings. its called blow-by gasses. its normal. that goes past the piston rings, and into your crank case. along with blow-by gasses, engines create a lot of mist amongst the engine oil. the blow-by gasses along with the oil mist elevates the pressures inside the engine. so in order to not explode the engine, that misty pressure is vented into a system called the PCV(Positive crankcase ventilation) system. that oily mist is then recirculated back into your intake system, and to be burned off in the engine with the air/fuel ratio.

when you turn your engine off, you get reverse pressure in your intake, where the oily mist will exit OUT of the air intake tube. that oily mist then creates the dirty spot you see on your intake filter (engine side).

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOUR THROTTLE PLATE, AIT SENSOR, and MAF SENSORS NEED CLEANING EVERY NOW & THEN.

CAN YOU POST A PIC OF THIS FILTER?
Oohh, dare I say anything about Oil Catch Cans? :rotflmao (Ducking and running for cover :ohno: )

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Re: Air filter dirt/oil

Postby ImStricken06 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:15 pm

lol oil catch cans are great for this exact reason. just use the right parts, and no one will flame you LOLOL

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Re: Air filter dirt/oil

Postby ras_oscar » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:59 am

First, an apology. Went and bought an air filter last night. the oily residue is actually on the intake side of the air stream, not the engine side. My fault, no excuses. Second, the Purolator filter was actually a bit too thick, so it didn't sit completely into the removable bracket. Took it back, verified I had read the book correctly. Went to 2 other parts stores, no love. Apparently this filter shape isn't made by very many after market sources. Is this as difficult filter to source? Am I stuck getting with an OEM filter? I have read the threads about the quick change shops breaking the filter housing, and plan on telling them to keem their hands off my filters.


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