CHATROOM: Engine Air Filter (K&N vs OEM vs Aftermarket)

Nissan Rogue forum - Includes Nissan Qashqai and Nissan Dualis as well.
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Leo2005
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Re: K&N Air Filter for Rogue? (Pescakl1)

Postby Leo2005 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:47 pm

I feel a big difference with my injen cai. Especially when I hit overdrive off button the car is just a way faster than it was originally. The sound of cai is soo good. I never had injen before but it sounds very mean. I'm taking it off this weekend because we have too much rain comin up since I'm living 15 min from ontario lake. BTW I used to have regular K&N intake on my mitsu galant and it was making a noise of burned exhaust like I had a hole in a pipe.


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Cypress_1973
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Re: K&N Air Filter for Rogue? (desiguy)

Postby Cypress_1973 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:46 am

K&N Air filter P/N 33-2409. Don't know of cost. Canadian Tire can usually bring them in.

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soltys
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Re: K&N Air Filter for Rogue? (Pescakl1)

Postby soltys » Wed May 26, 2010 3:17 pm

Leo2005 wrote:I feel a big difference with my injen cai. Especially when I hit overdrive off button the car is just a way faster than it was originally. The sound of cai is soo good. I never had injen before but it sounds very mean. I'm taking it off this weekend because we have too much rain comin up since I'm living 15 min from ontario lake. BTW I used to have regular K&N intake on my mitsu galant and it was making a noise of burned exhaust like I had a hole in a pipe.
Where did you get an injen CAI for the Rouge. I wasn't aware that there were any on the market.

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Re: K&N Air Filter for Rogue? (Pescakl1)

Postby philipa_240sx » Wed May 26, 2010 5:44 pm

soltys wrote:Where did you get an injen CAI for the Rouge. I wasn't aware that there were any on the market.
Actually, there isn't an Injen intake for the Rogue. Leo2005 used part of the Injen CAI kit for the Sentra... and did some custom fabrication to fit the the Rogue. You can read more about it here:

post4915157.html#p4915157

Jostudly
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CHATROOM: Engine Air Filter (K&N vs OEM vs Aftermarket)

Postby Jostudly » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:26 am

Anyone here use K&N air filters in their Rogues. Does it make any difference on horsepower and mileage? Don't want to replace the filter every year if I don't need too.

Edited by ImStricken(reason: to add video)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrD3oS62kOM[/youtube]

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Re: air filters

Postby ImStricken06 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:18 am

Jostudly wrote:Anyone here use K&N air filters in their Rogues. Does it make any difference on horsepower and mileage? Don't want to replace the filter every year if I don't need too.
there shouldnt be any differences in HP with that filter, when its used alone. air intakes might lower the temps of the incoming air, but not by much. those are only good for being able to reuse them. i have them in my g37s and my race bike. they work fine.

and you should be checking your filter more often than just "every year". filters dont have time limits, they have useage limits. if you drive through dusty area's, salty area's, or cars in front of you bringing up dust its going to clog your filter

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Re: air filters

Postby Qashqai » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:43 am

I understand that I have to check engine air filter frequently. I also understand that depending on the driving conditions (dust, salt, etc), I may need to change it more/less often. One thing I can't understand is, how do you know if the filter needs to be changed? Some people use the see through method and look at the sky through the filter. I tried, I see light?

Mine "looks" clean, a black patch of area where the air intake duct is opening to the filter house.

My second question is, the after market air filter (FRAM) and OEM filter are same price in Ottawa (24-25 $ plus %13 tax). I prefer to go OEM, but is it necessary? the FRAM one has a metal frame between the paper filter and orange gasket. The OEM has not...

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Re: air filters

Postby ImStricken06 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:51 am

just look at it: thats the only method.
(ill post below pictures of air filters that are due to be replaced)
I often take it out, bang out any loose dust/dirt/feathers and put it back in. Its good to replace them every 6 months depending on its physical condition. i would keep its 6month image burned into my head and not let it get worse than that.(unless you off-road or drive through dirty conditions)

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Jostudly
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Re: air filters

Postby Jostudly » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:25 am

My filter is red with a black rubber seal around it. This is the original filter in my Rogue. It almost looks like it is re-usable as it does not look like the filters in the pics in this thread. I wonder if I can wash it and re use it?

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Re: air filters

Postby ImStricken06 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:30 am

if its a paper element, no. if its the OEM filter = not reusable.
only sponge/cotton elements are reusable.

PS: they all will have rubber seals around, reusable or not. and color doesnt mean anything either.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby Jostudly » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:18 pm

Okay I had a K&N filter before is it made of sponge? Wondering if I should go with that filter or another brand.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby Rogue One » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:00 pm

Don't waste the money. Replaced my with one off eBay. Actually saw an improvement in MPG's.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby Towncivilian » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:08 pm

I would be wary of checking or otherwise molesting the air filter excessively as this can harm the seal over time and possibly introduce contaminants via the filter checking procedure if you need to move some intake plumbing around. I would generally just install a quality filter (preferably OEM since it is guaranteed to seal well in the airbox) and leave it be for the manufacturer recommended interval.

Air filters (all types of filters, in fact) get more efficient as they load up with contaminants, so changing or cleaning your air filter too often is actually detrimental to filtering efficiency. Of course, having a thoroughly clogged filter is not a good idea either, but generally engines with electronic fuel injections can compensate for a clogged filter - see this SAE paper detailing air filters & fuel economy (pdf link). Performance may suffer noticeably, but fuel economy will take a very minor hit.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby ImStricken06 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:31 am

Towncivilian wrote:Air filters (all types of filters, in fact) get more efficient as they load up with contaminants
i think you and i spoke about this before, and i still can not wrap my head around that statement.
the more a filter is clogged, the worse its performance levels are. its basic physics.

if i gave you a a toilet paper roll, you know the cardboard tube from it = and told you to breath through it, then i stuffed a wad of toilet paper into that tube = would that some how increase your breathing performance? i think not.

right from the link you posted:
"Acceleration performance on all vehicles was improved with a clean air filter" - so how would one claim that a filter loaded with contaminants becomes for "efficient"?

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby chadhargis » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:54 am

Towncivillian isn't saying FLOW RATE increases as it gets dirty, but FILTERING efficiency is improved.

Using your toilet paper tube analogy, if you were in a dusty room breathing through that tube with nothing in it, you'd be sucking dust. If you crammed it with cotton balls you'd have to work harder to breathe, but the air would contain less dust as some of it would get caught in the cotton. The catch 22 here is when the filter is completely clogged, it is MOST efficient as NOTHING is getting through.

Most car air filters have such a large surface area (take a filter apart and spread out all the pleats to see how big it really is) that even with it's filthy, it's still flowing air pretty well.

K&N filters do have a higher flow rate, but on a naturally aspirated engine you won't notice much difference. You also need to make sure you keep the K&N oiled. The science behind it is you can have larger gaps in the filter media allowing more airflow if you make the media attract the dirt. The filter oil causes the dirt to "stick" the the filter. If you let the oil dry out, then the dirt can be sucked into the engine.

I've run K&N filters on several vehicles. I like them on turbocharged vehicles especially such as my old turbo diesels. On my track bikes, I used to have two of them, so I could clean and oil one and have it "ready" in a zip lock bag so when I did a filter swap I didn't have to clean, dry, and re-oil the filter with my bike apart (some motorcycles require you to remove the fuel tank and other things to access the air filter).

If you get a K&N expecting big power gains or giant leaps in fuel mileage, you'll be disappointed. Even if it made a 1 or 2 HP difference, that would be awfully hard to tell (you could get a better performance gain by losing 20lbs...LOL!).

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby ImStricken06 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:08 am

i realized his theory after i posted. but thats light saying severely worn/bald tires give you more grip in the hot dry weather by replicating race slicks. but those same bald tires are a death trap in any other environment/weather.

ill take my chances with replacing my tires when they hit the wear indicators, and not achieving the "increased efficiency" on the hot, dry, days lol
and ill will take my chances by washing my reusable air filters and replacing the paper ones every couple months lol

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby Jostudly » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:31 am

okay I think I will get just a regular filter which I can buy for under $10 instead of paying 6x as much for a k&n.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby ImStricken06 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:37 am

Jostudly wrote:okay I think I will get just a regular filter which I can buy for under $10 instead of paying 6x as much for a k&n.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-N-33-2409-Sha ... 5a&vxp=mtr

$39.14(FREE shipping)

why buy a paper filter for $10-$12, when you can buy this k&n and never have to spend another dime on an air filter again. just wash and reuse. it pays for itself after about 3 paper filters or roughly 30,000miles

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby Qashqai » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:28 am

..but you still have to spray a special oil to a K&N filter right?

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby ImStricken06 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:38 am

Qashqai wrote:..but you still have to spray a special oil to a K&N filter right?
ya but at $10-$12 per can which that will last for many filter changes, it comes up to less than a cup of coffee. iv had the same can of spray for a few years now. you only lightly coat the filter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-N-Air-Filter- ... 34&vxp=mtr

if you call around, many motorcycle shops/stores will sell these K&N clean kits or just the spray oil so you dont have to pay shipping.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby mpattdu » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:11 pm

One would think that the air filter and car companies have done tests to determine the best balance of air flow and particle size for their air filters. To build on the tp tube analogy, an empty tube is like not using a filter, a tube with one cotton ball is like using a new filter, and a tube stuffed full of cotton balls is like a dirty filter. Maybe you can still breath, kind of, through the third tube, but make that guy and the 2nd tube guy race around the block and see who passes out first! :blush:

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby Jostudly » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:45 am

Well I paid $55 for a k&n filter off ebay. Hopefully it will be worth it.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby ImStricken06 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:04 am

Jostudly wrote:Well I paid $55 for a k&n filter off ebay. Hopefully it will be worth it.
yours will pay for itself after roughly 4.5 filters. roughly 45,000-50,000miles and its a free filter ;)
(i just bought mine from ebay for $39.14 with free ship).

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby Jostudly » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:16 am

They do not offer free shipping to Canada that's why mine was a bit more.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner

Postby ImStricken06 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:22 am

Jostudly wrote:They do not offer free shipping to Canada that's why mine was a bit more.
oh im sorry about that - didnt know you were up there. you still got a great deal if you intend on keeping the rogue for a while.

DONT FORGET TO PUT THIS STICKER ON YOUR AIR BOX LID
(many shops might not know you have this filter and throw it out and install a new paper one lol)

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Black B15 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:49 am

I am running the K&N panel filter in my car as well, no issues or problems. The biggest problem most people have is severely OVER oiling the filter and the MAF sensor doesn't like that so much.

If you maintain it correctly, meaning cleaned and oiled properly, a cotton media filter like K&N will last damn near forever.

It is easily worth the $50 or so. You can get a "recharge" kit which is a can of filter oil and a can of cleaning agent for around $20 or so and like ImStricken said that will last you quite a long time.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby kerrton » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:58 am

One word of caution with the resable air filters such as the K&N: be sure you only apply the a small amount of oil after cleaning EXACTLY as the instructions state. It is very easy to over-oil the filter and think you're doing a good job but too much oil can caus problems as it gets sucked into the intake, which can eventually lead to fowling of the expensve O2 sensor leading to rough idling and poor engine perfomance. I had a couple of friends who come to mind who had this issue with vehicles under warranty and the dealer wouldn't cover the costs of the diagnosis and repair - the K&N filter basically voided the warranty for that compoent because it introduced oil into the intake and was not OEM spec (i.e. dry filter).

This is something to consider carefully and I personally would recommed staying away from oiled K&N filters for most car owners who don't do a lot of DIY. In particular when you're under warranty OEM is best to keep life smple, and not having to purchase the cleaner and oil kits, not to mention cleaning and re-oiling the filters, is nice to avoid for most typical owners who find it hard to find time for regular oil changes and car washes!!

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:42 pm

every air filter will experience some area of black/oily residue. its due to the normal function of the PCV/emissions system. During engine operation, blow-by gases, as well as oil mist from the rotating components of the engine, pass through the PCV valve and can be routed back into the intake for the engine to burn off. If the PCV valve gets blocked up, then the crankcase fumes will travel from the engine TO the intake hose...in which case you would have nasty/oily filter.

Some people install oil catch cans to eliminate this, you engine will function just fine however if you have a large accumulation of oil you might want to have the dealer check your PCV system to make sure it's working properly.

secondly, if anyone is using the OEM Nissan air filters (and AFAIK, maybe other brands as well), they are oily when new. Nissan uses oiled paper filters - yep, just like K&N. Oiled filters allow the filter media to be depth loaded with debris. Nissan apparently thinks they work better.

so that dealer that told your friends that their MAF is gunked up and oiled up from the K&N is simply lying. MAF's naturally get dirty, and oily from normal operation. your friend's car could have or (had) a faulty/stuck PCV valve and that caused the MAF to be obliterated with oily misty air.

K&N filters would have had a serious black eye on the market by now if this was the fault of K&N's oil technique. They have been around for many-any years and as long as people dont empty half a can of filter oil, they should be ok.


HAVE A LISTEN:
http://www.knfilters.com/audio/automoti ... anties.mp3

FRO THEIR SITE:
"Will a K&N filter cause my vehicle's mass air sensor to fail?

No, it is both impossible and ridiculous.
It is impossible because we know that the oil treatment on our cotton is very small (usually less than 2 ounces). Once the oil is properly and evenly absorbed through the cotton, no oil will come off, even under extreme engine conditions. It is ridiculous, because no dealership or service provider has ever been able to provide us with evidence to support this "myth," and in fact, our investigations have revealed that even authorized dealerships are simply speculating and do not have the test equipment necessary to know whether the sensor has failed or why. It is even more ridiculous because some car manufacturers use and sell air filters treated with oil on a regular basis. There are also major brands of disposable air filters that are treated with oil. We all use oil for the same reason, it helps in the filtration efficiency of an air filter.

As a result of our standing up for consumer rights and providing assistance to resolve a disagreement, we have had over 300 actual sensors sent to us by dealerships who claimed our product had caused them to fail. Microscopic, electronic and chemical testing revealed that none of the sensors were contaminated by K&N oil (K&N Detailed MAF Sensor Test Results). What is perhaps the single biggest clue to what is going on is that over 50% of these sensors were not broken in the first place for any reason.
"


couple cool videos
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/massair.htm

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby Black B15 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:23 pm

I can speak from experience that over oiling will DEFINITELY cause problems with your MAF sensor. It shouldn't kill the sensor, but if someone were to continue driving with excess oil on the MAF sensor it would certainly cause problems. Having said that, 9 times out of 10 a simple cleaning with CNC MAF Cleaner and your MAF is back to normal.

On the Sentra forums this was happening all the time. Quite a few people think that their MAF is shot and typically the CNC cleaner will fix it.

I actually pull my MAF sensor about every 50000 miles anyway just to clean it out. Having your MAF try to work when the little heated sensors are coated with K&N filter oil is not good....your car will start to drive like it is in safe mode. Had this happen in rush hour traffic in Phoenix...NOT GOOD. Limped home, cleaned the MAF sensor, let it dry and 5 minutes later it fired up no problems, no codes, no issues.

EDIT***As long as you don't OVER oil the filter you shouldn't have any issues at all. It is once there is too much oil on the filter it definitely will pull through and stick to the MAF sensor along with coating your intake mani. Your engine will not having any problem actually burning the oil, it is just when the MAF gets too much on it. Just make sure not to over oil and you should be good.

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Re: Engine Air Filter / Cleaner (K&N vs OEM)

Postby ImStricken06 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:15 pm

i had a maxima with 160,000 miles, and i never used anything but a paper OEM style filters(dont know why, just chose not to mess with it). I went through two MAF's in the course of that mileage simply due to dirt/age/etc. its a common problem, and with higher RPM's = more oil vapor that is pushed back into the intake system that can lead to clogging of the MAF.
i also have a G37s with not one, but TWO K&N filters and over 29,000 and not a single issue.
i also have a 2007 GSXR600 race-bike that see's 16,000RPM (yes i said 16 thousand RPM) at the racetrack for hours, and it too has a k&N and not a single issue.
-and now my Rogue will be getting a K&N filter as well :)

K&N dipped a MAF into their oil - completely submerged it, and the MAF test to work fine.
i really think the guys that are having problems, are having problems with the MAF itself, and attribute the problem to the K&N making their MAF fail. Or they are revving their engines and the PCV system is not working up to its full potential and ends up re-routing the oily vapors in the area of the MAF and THAT is doing the damages.(just take a look at your filter, does it have black oily residue? thats your crankcase vapors).
thats same problem can come from high revving, worn piston rings, super low viscosity engine oil, or faulty PCV valve, and just normal operation. MAF's sit in a nasty place; and are prone to failing.

I just think the dealerships got work from the manufacturers to not waste money on warranty work and blame the k&N filter.
dont forget, nissan is signed up with AEM filter/intake system
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