Catch can Problem. New routing????

[s13ontap]

Here's my current setup. My problem is that my catch can is filling up ridiculously fast. like an hour of hard driving from empty to full.

From looking at my setup are any alarm bells going off to you guys?
...thought it may be the suction being too close to the turbo.
... thought it might also be the lack of vent to atmosphere on the catch can.
... thought it might be the fact that it's a race motor now and it's creating alot more pressure.....
so many questions.....

I feel like if i route it the same as it is now, but t the back side of the valve cover(intake side) instead of the middle on the exhaust side that it may fix it, cause then it's not going with the rotation of the motor when it sloshes oil up there, it's on the other side......

But I'm ultimately wondering what you guys have done to route your catch cans.... Ever had problems like these? solutions?....

[compactfean]

Is there supposed to be a picture posted?

[s13ontap]

... yeah. I can see it on my screen. can't you?
here's a direct link

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... c9a29c.jpg

[s13ontap]

[/img]


Did that work...

[s13ontap]

Anyone? Did the pics show?

[s13ontap]

man you guys are a wealth of information on here...

[asoomal]

Where is that other line going to? The braided one on the tee going to the firewall?

[compactfean]

Well sooorry if we are out building cars instead of thread posts! Lol. But I see a couple problems that may be the cause.
1- its ran back to the intake. Maybe the suction from the intake is causing this with that large of a turbo?
2- the line that goes to the back of the block..... In stock form it goes through the catch can (which the stock catch can has a foamy spounge oil stopper) before it ever gets to the T In the valve cover. The valve cover also has steel mesh in it to help stop oil from escaping before the T in the valve cover so maybe because you eliminated the stock catch can, oil flows straight to your catch can?

[s13ontap]

^^^ Haha true enough. lol I'm inpatient. Asoomal - No It's going to the back of the head. stock fitting.

Compactfean - I think thats my problem. we were thinking about venting the catch can, so the suction was reduced. also moving it closer to filter and farther from turbo. The thing is ..... It worked fine on my stock motor (just cams) but when we swapped in the 2.2 stroker it started happening. the only differance was the valve cover and the hose to my intake pipe. I feel like a filter pulling in atmospheric pressure mounted on the catch can (moroso style) will counter the pressure created by the turbo sucking. does that sound accurate?

[compactfean]

Yeah id try that first because its a cheap easy experiment. As for the stroker, have you let the rings seat yet? Im sure if you're still in break in period that's not helping either.

[s13ontap]

well past break in. it's the morot's second season. but it didn't do this in my s14

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Check your compression, you shouldn't be filling it up that fast. My guess is that you're getting a good amount of blow-by. Also, you need to have an air/oil seperator between the block tube and the T on the valve cover. This is another reason why you are filling it up quickly (if your compression is good, this may be the only reason). I know your factory one probably wont fit, so you may have to improvise. Another good mod is to weld a nipple on the back exhaust side of the valve cover to mimic an S14 SR20 valve cover. A better way, is to find or make a hybrid S13/S14 valve cover like I did on my motor. The new VC has a built in air/oil seperator instead of running an external one like the S13 SR. Also make sure your PCV valve is good on the other side. I can't stress how important the PCV system is, it can destroy a high boost/power motor if not done correctly. Leave the line going from the catch can to the intake. You need a good vacuum source under full boost to suck out block pressure, and you wont have it on the intake manifold side under boost (obviously). There are other ways to get a vacuum source, but this is the cheapest and easiest way.

[s13ontap]

thanks man. I'll look into it. thanks for the detailed response. that was exactly the kind of response I was waiting for.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

No problem. Compression should be 157psi for a stock motor. No less than 145psi and no more than a 12psi spread across all four cylinders.

[s13ontap]

It's not a stock motor though, CR is 9.5:1, in a 2.2 stroker. I know stock should be around there, but I assume I can expect it to be higher, and I'd think I'd like to see a tighter spread, correct?

Forgive my lack of engine knowledge, I know bolt-ons, and general tech stuff, but engine internals are not my forte. I'd previously just been running cams and rocker arm stoppers + high a** boost on my setup to achieve decent power... Now I bought a fully built race motor off a buddy to do it right and see real power, but it would seem I have a few kinks to work out. The catch can and a high idle are my biggest problems right now

[compactfean]

With 9.5 cr you'll be seeing between 165 and 175 depending on hg thickness. Also Ive never been a fan of the stroker concept because I rev my motors pretty high and have seen non stroked motors do work! As far as the line going back to the intake from the catch can it isn't necessary as long as the I.d. Is large enough for the hole where the crankcase gases are coming out. In many built applications its common to make 2 outlets to a very large catch can with 2 huge breathers.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

While the breather route works, it is not as effective as routing back to the intake. Sucking the air out is better than pushing it out, IMO at least, lol. I have 175-ish psi on my 9:1 motor for reference. It's not a stroker though.

[compactfean]

True, but unless the catch can works flawless... Oil will end up in the piping regardless. And 175 across the board with 9:1! That's pretty good. Highest I've seen so far with a 9:1 motor is like 168. I may rethink renting your torque plate after all on my next size pistons.

[compactfean]

Oh and 2 liter, you have more info on the oil air separator built into the s14 vc? I would love to get rid of the stock s13 one. I know the s13 vc has metal screening in it to help catch oil but that's not the same as a oil/air separator.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

True, but unless the catch can works flawless... Oil will end up in the piping regardless. And 175 across the board with 9:1! That's pretty good. Highest I've seen so far with a 9:1 motor is like 168. I may rethink renting your torque plate after all on my next size pistons.

Very true, that's the downside of the air intake vacuum source, with an S13 VC I don't have any oil in my intake with the S14 valve cover, and I don't even have a catch can! The TQ plate helps a lot in this regard. A good ring seal is also another reason why I don't get oil in the intake tract. lol.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Oh and 2 liter, you have more info on the oil air separator built into the s14 vc? I would love to get rid of the stock s13 one. I know the s13 vc has metal screening in it to help catch oil but that's not the same as a oil/air separator.

I'll try to take some pics tonight or tomorrow. I'm out the door in a sec, lol.

[s13ontap]

sweet. I'm looking into a touge factory s13.4 valve cover. looks pretty sick. problem is i just tediously shaved and polished my s13 valve cover. So I'm not sure if i want to commit.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

sweet. I'm looking into a touge factory s13.4 valve cover. looks pretty sick. problem is i just tediously shaved and polished my s13 valve cover. So I'm not sure if i want to commit.

I got mine done at MA motorsports. Not sure which one is cheaper, but it's worth a look.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Oh and 2 liter, you have more info on the oil air separator built into the s14 vc? I would love to get rid of the stock s13 one. I know the s13 vc has metal screening in it to help catch oil but that's not the same as a oil/air separator.

This link has some basic info and pictures:

http://tougefactory.com/shop/2011/03/s1 ... er-crisco/

I couldn't find internal baffle pictures, but maybe you can have better luck, lol. If you stick your finger in the open parts of the air/oil seperator, you can feel baffles in there.

[compactfean]

The s13.4 is too rich for my blood but is pretty baller. If you come across pictures of the baffling lmk because I may try something like that with the stock vc.

[Jmoore124]

I would cap the intake and vta for a little while and see how much accumulation you have. That would tell you if your pulling too much vac on the vc. Either that or I would move the catch can itself so its not a straight downhill shot into the can from the vc. Take it and stick it over near the ps res and I bet you will see a huge difference in how much oil you catch. (making a small uphill travel for the liquid to travel.) remember you are only trying to evac the contaminated air, not oil.

[s13ontap]

So batting ideas around, I came across this.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categoryd ... code=18549

What do you guys think? think it would solve the problem?

[Jmoore124]

No. Basically all that is doing is adding another catch can to your pcv system. Redundancy wont fix the problem you are having with too much oil being blown out of your valve cover. Like I said in the earlier post, there are a number of things wrong with your pcv setup that are simple and free to fix.

[s13ontap]

So cap the line going from my intake to the catch can, and the braided line?

[Jmoore124]

You want to disconnect it from your intake and cap the hole in the side of the intake so nothing gets in there. That will tell you if you are pulling too much vacuum.

You should not get oil past the can. if you do I suspect the location your can is mounted is a culprit.