cars we want back

[240sxcl50]

I believe that the viper is now the arc viper not dodge.

[Razi]

You mean ACR?
That was just a variant of the Viper, it holds a very fast lap at the Nurburgring.
I don't think they are starting to produce Vipers though.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I just want manual transmissions to come back. Screw these flappy paddle and auto only vehicles.

[240sxcl50]

Chevy nova

[Jesda]

Viper may become an SRT-branded vehicle.

[240sxcl50]

http://www.drivesrt.com/srt-viper/

[240sxcl50]

I just want manual transmissions to come back. Screw these flappy paddle and auto only vehicles.

+1
i dont care how fast they shift, you feel less connected to the vehicle than your standard 5/6 speed manual transmission

[alms24sebring]

I just want manual transmissions to come back. Screw these flappy paddle and auto only vehicles.

The Camry SE comes with paddles!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A f***ing Camry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ACR is a dirty trackslut. But, I am now intrigued by a mean looking 2013 one even tho Im a Corvette guy.

[flohtingPoint]

That was just a variant of the Viper, it holds a very fast lap at the Nurburgring.

"Nurburgring" test times mean totally nothing. There are no constants in any of the tests that each car company does and the track is far too stupid to grade a vehicle on in the first place. I put no stock at all in what car A can do there vs car B. If companies we're really worried about test times and showing true form of a car, they'd go right next door to the GP circuit (the real Nurburgring) and see who can run the best flyer on a given day to make sure that track temps and track condition was similar, but they're not because nobody thinks about these things, they just see "Nurburgring" and whatever the time is and eat it up.

I dont really care about one car or another, but something I would like to come back is the "stupid vehicle." In "stupid vehicle" I mean the technologically incompetent car. I dont want computer controlled crap, or all sorts of gadgets in the vehicle. Give me a motor, a chassis with low center of gravity and DWB suspension, a dome light, an RPM/MPH/Water Temp/Oil Pressure gauge and thats it. I'm so tired of the direction that cars are going toward, with all this electronic junk loaded into vehicles.

[themadscientist]

I just want manual transmissions to come back. Screw these flappy paddle and auto only vehicles.

werd. Heck, I find the auto rev thing in the 370 too intrusive. If I want to rev match challenge me to do it myself.

[themadscientist]

Chevy nova

He feels ya man

[Razi]

That was just a variant of the Viper, it holds a very fast lap at the Nurburgring.

"Nurburgring" test times mean totally nothing. There are no constants in any of the tests that each car company does and the track is far too stupid to grade a vehicle on in the first place. I put no stock at all in what car A can do there vs car B. If companies we're really worried about test times and showing true form of a car, they'd go right next door to the GP circuit (the real Nurburgring) and see who can run the best flyer on a given day to make sure that track temps and track condition was similar, but they're not because nobody thinks about these things, they just see "Nurburgring" and whatever the time is and eat it up.

I dont really care about one car or another, but something I would like to come back is the "stupid vehicle." In "stupid vehicle" I mean the technologically incompetent car. I dont want computer controlled crap, or all sorts of gadgets in the vehicle. Give me a motor, a chassis with low center of gravity and DWB suspension, a dome light, an RPM/MPH/Water Temp/Oil Pressure gauge and thats it. I'm so tired of the direction that cars are going toward, with all this electronic junk loaded into vehicles.

Whoa what are you talking about?
The burgerring is absolutely everything.

I just want manual transmissions to come back. Screw these flappy paddle and auto only vehicles.

werd. Heck, I find the auto rev thing in the 370 too intrusive. If I want to rev match challenge me to do it myself.

You can't turn it off?

[Jesda]

Chevy nova

He feels ya man

I owned one. Mine was blue.

[Bubba1]

I owned one. Mine was blue.

I learned to drive in one, but mine was a REAL Nova, built in 1971...

[hannibal]

I owned one. Mine was blue.

I had a blue 86 hatchback. Three speed auto FTW!

A coworker sent me this link this morning:
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/ten-desirab ... tml?page=1

[alms24sebring]

^^ agreed, that was a real Nova
^ Awesome. There are a few NX2000s around here

I think there is some definitive value in the 'ring performance. Maybe not everything, but it does say something about the car. A better time wouldnt make me want to buy it any more or less, but its a great testing ground for all around racing from tight 1st gear corners to long straight aways.

[flohtingPoint]

I think there is some definitive value in the 'ring performance. Maybe not everything, but it does say something about the car. A better time wouldnt make me want to buy it any more or less, but its a great testing ground for all around racing from tight 1st gear corners to long straight aways.

There are no 1st gear corners on it, if you're in 1st, you're going WAY too slow. The only time you're in 1st is when you enter via the toll booth and exit into the parking area. It gives you very little on "all around racing" as the track is in such poor condition that it doesn't simulate a real track at all, it never cleans up and rubbers in. Nobody needs "green track" data, as in a race the track is never green, it's had several heats layed over it throughout the course of a weekend.

The real reasons car manufacturers continue to use it (aside from the "gee wiz" factor from folks reading the crap printed in Car and Driver or Motortrend) is because it's a very cheap way of testing, monstrously cheap in fact.

[Bubba1]

I think there is some definitive value in the 'ring performance. Maybe not everything, but it does say something about the car. A better time wouldnt make me want to buy it any more or less, but its a great testing ground for all around racing from tight 1st gear corners to long straight aways.

There are no 1st gear corners on it. The only time you're in 1st is when you enter via the toll booth and exit into the parking area. It gives you very little on "all around racing" as the track is in such poor condition that it doesn't simulate a real track at all, it never cleans up and rubbers in. Nobody needs "green track" data, as in a race the track is never green, it's had several heats layed over it throughout the course of a weekend.

The real reasons car manufacturers continue to use it (aside from the "gee wiz" factor from folks reading the crap printed in Car and Driver or Motortrend) is because it's a very cheap way of testing, monstrously cheap in fact.

I agree. I think publishing 'Ring lap times with a professional driver under ideal conditions is more an advertising gimmick than anything else. I also see no value to it, as the driving experience is a far more important factor. For example, a Viper might be a few ticks quicker around the ring than a Z06, but most folks will be a Z06 before Viper because it's a much more user friendly car.

[hannibal]

Nurburgring times are useful ,but they should be taken with a grain of salt.

Same thing with 1/4 mile times. Theyre run under different conditions by different drivers on different tracks/strips. But they do give you a hint about a car's performance relative to another. Is a car with a 13.0 sec time gonna beat one with a 13.2 sec time every time? No but you wouldnt expect to see a 14 sec car hanging with the other two.

[alms24sebring]

I thought there was a 1st gear turn like 1/3 the way through it. Sorry cant name that part of the track, or atleast barely a 2nd gear turn depending on gear setup I guess. But I will agree that I don't even really think twice about the Nurb times.

Nurburgring times are useful ,but they should be taken with a grain of salt.

Same thing with 1/4 mile times. Theyre run under different conditions by different drivers on different tracks/strips. But they do give you a hint about a car's performance relative to another. Is a car with a 13.0 sec time gonna beat one with a 13.2 sec time every time? No but you wouldnt expect to see a 14 sec car hanging with the other two.

This is exactly what I mean and I was also going to post about 1/4 mile times. I hate people that judge a car being better if it has a faster time, because it doesnt mean that. But at the same time, 13.0 is a quick time for a stock car (depending on car) regardless.

[Bubba1]

Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I find 1/4 mile times as irrelevant as a nurb lap time...period. I could care less whether a car I'm looking to buy can do 12 or 14 second quarters. Of course, if I was that concerned about performance, I never would have bought a new 240sx, whose 1/4 mile times were measured with a calendar.

[alms24sebring]

Its called 'potential'

[flohtingPoint]

Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I find 1/4 mile times as irrelevant as a nurb lap time...period. I could care less whether a car I'm looking to buy can do 12 or 14 second quarters. Of course, if I was that concerned about performance, I never would have bought a new 240sx, whose 1/4 mile times were measured with a calendar.

I'm in the same boat but for a different reason. Just like the silly "Nurburgring" times, nothing is static so all of the times are totally invalid. Change of a tire compound and I can be .5 quicker. Change of a track and I can be up to a full second quicker. My Z28 would run 13's at one spot, 14's in another due to conditions of the box and my ability to put down a decent 60'. Fact of the matter is, the junk they put in car reviews is just that, arbitrary garbage. The way I judge a car (or tires) is by how it does when I drive it or how it does in national level motorsports.

[alms24sebring]

True and Im with you in that. But what I am getting at is doesnt it say something to you when Prius does the quarter in almost 30 seconds?

[Bubba1]

True and Im with you in that. But what I am getting at is doesnt it say something to you when Prius does the quarter in almost 30 seconds?

Yep, it says to me that a stock 240sx is only about 2 seconds quicker..... j/k

I do understand what you're saying. But FWIW, I wouldn't buy a Prius regardless of its straightline performance.

[flohtingPoint]

True and Im with you in that. But what I am getting at is doesnt it say something to you when Prius does the quarter in almost 30 seconds?

Yep, it says to me that a stock 240sx is only about 2 seconds quicker..... j/k

I do understand what you're saying. But FWIW, I wouldn't buy a Prius regardless of its straightline performance.

Joel nailed it. Nobody is buying a Prius for performance, they just want to save fuel.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The whole "Viper but not a Dodge" thing is stupid. So is spinning off Ram as its own brand. Americans have proven over and over and over and over and over and over and over that having lots of brands to hide from your reputation DOES NOT WORK. It just creates new problems without solving the original one. If your name is bad, FIX IT, don't hide from it.

From what I understand, Fiat is actually un-doing the Ram-as-a-brand thing. Which is good. Think about it: Ram sells ONE product. ONE. They sell Rams. They sold Dakotas for the 3 months the model still existed after the brand split. They don't sell anything else. WHY DO YOU NEED A BRAND FOR ONE VEHICLE?! Same goes for the Viper. Unless you're going to sell 5 different Viper-branded models that don't exist under any other marque, there's no point to the brand. Hiding from Dodge's reputation is a pansy-a** maneuver and putting their GOOD products under other names won't help improve that reputation.

As far as Nurburgring performance...that goes right up there with 0-60 times and quarter mile, as has been said. They're all meaningless. But from a marketing and stats standpoint, they represent good standardized yardsticks for comparison. Everyone understands 0-60. Everyone understands the quarter mile. And these days everyone understands the 'Ring (which is a stupid nickname).

[nissangirl74]

Datsun 620 King Cab. No exterior modifications. Needs A/C and no automatic transmission option.

I know not many people agree with me, but I'd love to have a brand new 210. No mods, just a new one that I could put 300K on.

I would say a 510 but I know they would screw it up, so better to leave that classic as she is.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Chevy nova

He feels ya man

My parents had a red '86 sedan with the 3-speed auto when I was very young (late 80s). It was spectacularly gutless, extremely sensitive to fuel-quality, and generally scary to drive. My dad gave up his gorgeous green '67 Cougar for it for practicality reasons. At the time, my grandparents lived high up on the wasatch mountains, and we'd have to drive up some steep hills to visit. The Nova always felt like it wouldn't make it, especially if you put cheap gas in it. It always did make it, but only barely.
My dad said he also test drove a 5-door version that seemed to be lacking most of its already pitiful 74hp, and was terrifying to drive.

Terrible, horrible car. My dad replaced it with a brand new Maxima in '93...Hell of an upgrade.

I love '60s Novas, though.

So hot:

[audtatious]

RWD Celica